Hegseth hosts first meeting of what he says will be a monthly Christian prayer service at Pentagon

TOP said:
Why is this a problem? I think it's wonderful...
"In a statement, acting Pentagon press secretary Kingsley Wilson said, “The Office of the Secretary of Defense invited DoD personnel to attend a voluntary Christian prayer and worship service this morning. Many different faiths have regular services in the Pentagon Chapel or elsewhere in the Pentagon. This service was an opportunity for Believers to appeal to Heaven on behalf of our great nation and its warfighters. Beseeching the Almighty has been an American tradition since George Washington prayed for our cause at Valley Forge. The United States was then, and remains now, One Nation under God. At this time, OSD envisions that these prayer and worship services will be a monthly occurrence. Any participating civilian clergy are responsible for their own travel and accommodations expenditures.”
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Give me a fucking break.

It's great to know that the people in charge of national defense
are either afflicted with inane religious superstitions
or pretend to be so as to pander to their idiot sycophants.

America, after only a few months of this particular Pigshit Administration, is stone cold dead, never to recover.
You collaborators must be very proud.
I hope it was worth surrendering your human status.
 
Damocles said:
Depending. Teachers and Administrators can have voluntary stuff. There was a case specifically about this as a coach was holding prayers after the game and some activist atheists got all upset. The SCOTUS ruled that so long as it didn't interrupt the actual school, etc. and if it was voluntary he was within his rights.
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That is after school people can leave, not so during school when children are captive
 
Damocles said:
What does this have to do with "need"? People have a right to their religions, even while they are at work. As I already stated, Muslims pray 5 times per day at that same place. Telling folks that they should "stay home" violates their first Amendment rights, which even people in office have.

This is the same as arguing that the 2nd Amendment is about hunting... or asking "why do you need to arm yourself"? It isn't about "need".
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I'll stipulate that the word "need" should be "desire" or "want." Are the praying Muslims broadcasting their services to all on an official channel? Or are they quietly praying in their cubicles/offices? Is a high-ranking Pentagon official leading their prayers?

No one cares if people pray or worship privately even at work. The problem comes when the constitution is violated by these worship services being "endorsed" by being led by the boss. It's inappropriate and violates the Establishment Clause. No one's first amendment right to their religion is being violated by NOT having religious services led by the boss. Just as no child's right to worship is being violated by not having the school's principal led a prayer over the school's intercom every morning, as some claim.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I'll stipulate that the word "need" should be "desire" or "want." Are the praying Muslims broadcasting their services to all on an official channel? Or are they quietly praying in their cubicles/offices? Is a high-ranking Pentagon official leading their prayers?

No one cares if people pray or worship privately even at work. The problem comes when the constitution is violated by these worship services being "endorsed" by being led by the boss. It's inappropriate and violates the Establishment Clause. No one's first amendment right to their religion is being violated by NOT having religious services led by the boss. Just as no child's right to worship is being violated by not having the school's principal led a prayer over the school's intercom every morning, as some claim.
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Again, we can test your theory out. We know the leftists will prolapse if Christians voluntarily gather (whenever two or more of you gather in My name Matthew 18:20). Your theory is the right would prolapse if similar prayers came from unlikely sources. So, I say we test this out. There are Muslims that work there, have it led by Ilhan Omar (as you suggested) get them to come out and pray to support our troops, and to keep them safe... Let's gauge the reaction. See who gets upset over it. Other than militant Atheists who think anyone talking about God in public is against the "Establishment Clause" my guess is only leftists will care that people are praying.

It doesn't violate the establishment clause, it is outside of work hours and voluntary. We've already gone over this and the SCOTUS ruling.
 
Damocles said:
You should send her on over to test this theory. She'll just trot on over whenever you snap your fingers, right? Show some support to the US military by praying for their safety? Then we'll know, and it won't be your supposition.
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It does not bother me that he is leading a prayer, it does bother me that it is specifically a Christian prayer.
 
Jarod said:
He is the leader and head of the department of Defense, there is a clear implication. I do not believe its unconstitutional, but I do not believe the head of an agency should be promoting a denomination.
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M'eh. It isn't a denomination though. There are many denominations of that religion I do not think it is denomination specific.
 
Damocles said:
M'eh. It isn't a denomination though. There are many denominations of that religion I do not think it is denomination specific.
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Ok, you got me, I used the wrong word, religion specific would have been more accurate. Why did they specify that this is a CHRISTIAN prayer service? Why not a Prayer service...

You and I both know why, its a dog whistle to the base.
 
Jarod said:
Ok, you got me, I used the wrong word, religion specific would have been more accurate. Why did they specify that this is a CHRISTIAN prayer service? Why not a Prayer service...

You and I both know why, its a dog whistle to the base.
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Again. M'eh. If it were unconstitutional you'd have me here with you, this though? I just point out why it is constitutional and move on with my life. If others want to hold their own services, do so. You can even have a "non-denominational" meeting... though it will be tougher to test Owl's theory out that way. Let's get several groups. Some Wiccans (if we can find a Wiccan that holds office to lead the prayers, even better), some Muslims.. each on different days so we can see who gets upset when people pray.
 
Damocles said:
Again. M'eh. If it were unconstitutional you'd have me here with you, this though? I just point out why it is constitutional and move on with my life. If others want to hold their own services, do so. You can even have a "non-denominational" meeting... though it will be tougher to test Owl's theory out that way. Let's get several groups. Some Wiccans (if we can find a Wiccan that holds office to lead the prayers, even better), some Muslims.. each on different days so we can see who gets upset when people pray.
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I am not upset about the praying. Its a good thing.

I do not believe the point here was to pray, but to try to virtue signal to a base, and to try to shore up his job.

Now if they complain that he shares sensitive information he will whine that its because he is a Christian.
 
Jarod said:
I am not upset about the praying. Its a good thing.

I do not believe the point here was to pray, but to try to virtue signal to a base, and to try to shore up his job.

Now if they complain that he shares sensitive information he will whine that its because he is a Christian.
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Cynical, I get that. Hence my... "Is it unconstitutional?" If no then > *yawn* and move on. However, I would like to do my experiment. To see if Owl is right. I believe that rightwingers would welcome prayers from folks outside of Christianity, Owl thinks they'd be angry, especially if Ilhan Omar suddenly decided that praying for our troops was a great idea and showed up to lead the prayer.

I'd like to see which of us are right.
 
Damocles said:
Cynical, I get that. Hence my... "Is it unconstitutional?" If no then > *yawn* and move on. However, I would like to do my experiment. To see if Owl is right. I believe that rightwingers would welcome prayers from folks outside of Christianity, Owl thinks they'd be angry, especially if Ilhan Omar suddenly decided that praying for our troops was a great idea and showed up to lead the prayer.

I'd like to see which of us are right.
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Id like to see it happen. I think there is a good 30% of Trumppers who would be OUTRAGED.

I suspect this guy is trying to use something as sacred as prayer as a personal tool for personal advancement of his career.
 
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Damocles said:
Again, we can test your theory out. We know the leftists will prolapse if Christians voluntarily gather
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Incorrect.

I've never cared if Christians voluntarily gather to quietly pray on their lunch break at work, anymore than I would care if a Muslim employee needed to do some of their five daily prayers at work. Special accommodations should be made for Orthodox Jews who are in government, and are asked to work on the Sabbath. Religious freedom doesn't end at the property boundary of the church, Synagogue, or mosque.

I think the line starts to be crossed when the Secretary of Defense organizes a prayer meeting at work, particularly if there is any suggestion of social pressure to participate. I haven't read enough about this to know if that's the case.
 
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Cypress said:
Incorrect.

I've never cared if Christians voluntarily gather to quietly pray on their lunch break at work, anymore than I would care if a Muslim employee needed to do some of their five daily prayers at work.

I think the line starts to be crossed when the Secretary of Defense organizes a prayer meeting at work, particularly if there is any suggestion of social pressure to participate. I haven't read enough about this to know if that's the case.
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Yet here we are, in this very thread, with leftists prolapsing.
 
Guno צְבִי said:
It is unclear whether the Defense Department has hosted similar religious events outside of the Pentagon’s chapel, which was added after the 9/11 attack, but the service is part of an increasing infusion of overt Christian evangelization in official government events during Mr. Trump’s second term.

The Pentagon press secretary, Sean Parnell, did not immediately respond to a question about whether the monthly services will include non-Protestant pastors, Catholic priests, rabbis or imams.
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Guano they are praying for you.
 
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