Federal troops kill a man because he carried a concealed gun.

Matt Dillon said:
Wow! That's some serious Texas stuff there. Remember The Alamo!
That's where Daniel Boone and Jim Bowie died fighting Santa Ana.
Wait, it was Davy Crockett, not Daniel Boone.
That was a badass dude, Bill McDonald.
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My great great grand father was at the battle of San Jacinto and he and his son helped capture Santa Anna. They both became Texas Rangers. They carried Walker Colts as saddle guns. . The Texas Rangers were the most effective carvery force at the time. Cpt. Samuel Walker help Colt design the Walker Colt he wanted a black powder revolver that was powerful enough to stop a man or a horse. It was the most powerful hand gun till the 357 magnum came out. I have a replica Walker Colt. It weighs 5 lbs. It is a hoot to shoot.
 
FastLane said:
My great great grand father was at the battle of San Jacinto and he and his son helped capture Santa Anna. They both became Texas Rangers. They carried Walker Colts as saddle guns. . The Texas Rangers were the most effective carvery force at the time. Cpt. Samuel Walker help Colt design the Walker Colt he wanted a black powder revolver that was powerful enough to stop a man or a horse. It was the most powerful hand gun till the 357 magnum came out. I have a replica Walker Colt. It weighs 5 lbs. It is a hoot to shoot.
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Walker Colt is a big gun. You can pack a lot of powder into those.
Get 9mm ballistics or better. Wish you hadn't brought that up, for..reasons.
I need to load a gun. Last time I did, it didn't fire, had to find the nipple wrench and use a chopstick and hammer and things like that.
Only on 1 chamber, whew.
 
FastLane said:
That isn't a death penalty crime is it. I thought that was trespassing. Colbert's staff were arrested for trespassing into the Capitol and they didn't kill them.
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Yes it is a death penalty crime.

Test it if you do not think so. March on Trump or the VP or any Congress person with a security detail and when they demand you stop and do not proceed any more, just ignore them and keep marching towards their charges.

Even without the mob behind you, as Ashley had, who were viciously beating cops and calling for the DEATH or attack of Congress members you will be killed.

Ashley was leading this rabid mob, and that is a death penalty crime, if you refuse to stop, 100% of the time.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Yes, against '...all threats foreign and domestic,' as oaths go. Well, these violent, often domestic terrorists, rioters and such are a domestic threat, so...
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QED on you betraying your oath. "Yes, I support the Constitution but they are the evil lefties soooo......"
 
FastLane said:
My great great grand father was at the battle of San Jacinto and he and his son helped capture Santa Anna. They both became Texas Rangers. They carried Walker Colts as saddle guns. . The Texas Rangers were the most effective carvery force at the time. Cpt. Samuel Walker help Colt design the Walker Colt he wanted a black powder revolver that was powerful enough to stop a man or a horse. It was the most powerful hand gun till the 357 magnum came out. I have a replica Walker Colt. It weighs 5 lbs. It is a hoot to shoot.
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What a disappointment you'd be to them, Ms. Fat Lame.
 
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FastLane said:
They were in a different room with other exits. They could and should have simply arrested Babbitt.
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you have to magat level stupid to believe a handful of guards can 'arrest' one person who is at the lead of an advancing mob.

Even if you assume the best case which is that it only takes one person to arrest and remove 1 person, then all the security is gone, with a handful of arrests and that leaves the Congress people with dozens, if not hundreds of the mob undefended.

I mean, I would say that is stupid even for you but it is actually on par.
 
QP! said:
So what do you say about the video?

Or are you still claiming be amongst the only people in America who have not watched any footage on it yet?

BTW no one believes that at this point as it would take great willful effort to not see video of it, and a DESIRE TO NOT see any video of it, to avoid forming an opinion.

What is almost certainly more true is you have watched it and find what was done heinous and wrong but cannot bring yourself to be that critical of the Trump admin so you will let this incident pass while claiming 'i never saw the video', so you do not have to critique what they did.
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I just watched the video for the first time. Literally just now. I was avoiding it until I gathered things to look for, learned what other folks were saying, then wanting to know if it met up with reality.

- The Agents approached Pretti. First Pretti walks towards them telling them to "leave her alone" and "I am not in traffic, you are" or something very close to that, but he walks to the side and the agents approach him.
- One of agents is just pushing everybody for no reason I can ascertain. I saw him push at least 3, including the woman in the backpack.
- They pull him off the woman he's trying to help and immediately go into trying to arrest him.
- The gun was absolutely concealed until they grabbed him and pulled at his jacket. When an agent spots the gun he shouts "gun" and grabs it and walks to the middle of the street and away.
- Agents hear "gun" and 3 agents grab guns. I hear nobody telling them that it is "clear" once they have disarmed the guy. However I also do not know if they normally would do that as a guy with one gun may have another. He would be treated as "potentially still armed".
- The first shot that goes off is not on camera, but once it goes at least 9 more follow.

My opinion: This was a clusterf*ck. Someone should lose their job for this mess. However I do not think any of them will face charges, they will be able to use "reasonable officer" thought he was "armed" and was a danger to their life or the lives of others.

I still think that de-escalation training needs to be a priority for these agents, if they plan to work in cities where they will meet this kind of protest they will need to maintain their cool.

That dude pushing everyone was definitively not de-escalating, and I cannot see any reason why he was doing this other than being poorly trained and angry.

End all: Someone should lose their job over this, and they need to spend waaaay more time in training if they are going to play in those cities where they are unwanted. All that being said, "reasonable officer" standard would end with a result that is unsatisfying as the agents would definitely assume he was still armed once they removed one gun... You cannot assume that is the only weapon, but you now know he was armed.
 
Damocles said:
I just watched the video for the first time. Literally just now. I was avoiding it until I gathered things to look for, learned what other folks were saying, then wanting to know if it met up with reality.

- The Agents approached Pretti. First Pretti walks towards them telling them to "leave her alone" and "I am not in traffic, you are" or something very close to that, but he walks to the side and the agents approach him.
- One of agents is just pushing everybody for no reason I can ascertain. I saw him push at least 3, including the woman in the backpack.
- They pull him off the woman he's trying to help and immediately go into trying to arrest him.
- The gun was absolutely concealed until they grabbed him and pulled at his jacket. When an agent spots the gun he shouts "gun" and grabs it and walks to the middle of the street and away.
- Agents hear "gun" and 3 agents grab guns. I hear nobody telling them that it is "clear" once they have disarmed the guy. However I also do not know if they normally would do that as a guy with one gun may have another. He would be treated as "potentially still armed".
- The first shot that goes off is not on camera, but once it goes at least 9 more follow.

My opinion: This was a clusterf*ck. Someone should lose their job for this mess. However I do not think any of them will face charges, they will be able to use "reasonable officer" thought he was "armed" and was a danger to their life or the lives of others.

I still think that de-escalation training needs to be a priority for these agents, if they plan to work in cities where they will meet this kind of protest they will need to maintain their cool.

That dude pushing everyone was definitively not de-escalating, and I cannot see any reason why he was doing this other than being poorly trained and angry.

End all: Someone should lose their job over this, and they need to spend waaaay more time in training if they are going to play in those cities where they are unwanted. All that being said, "reasonable officer" standard would end with a result that is unsatisfying as the agents would definitely assume he was still armed once they removed one gun... You cannot assume that is the only weapon, but you now know he was armed.
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Good analysis. Listen to the pattern of shots and note there's a pause multiple more shots were fired. They were firing out of anger, not self-defense.
 
Damocles said:
I just watched the video for the first time. Literally just now. I was avoiding it until I gathered things to look for, learned what other folks were saying, then wanting to know if it met up with reality.

- The Agents approached Pretti. First Pretti walks towards them telling them to "leave her alone" and "I am not in traffic, you are" or something very close to that, but he walks to the side and the agents approach him.
- One of agents is just pushing everybody for no reason I can ascertain. I saw him push at least 3, including the woman in the backpack.
- They pull him off the woman he's trying to help and immediately go into trying to arrest him.
- The gun was absolutely concealed until they grabbed him and pulled at his jacket. When an agent spots the gun he shouts "gun" and grabs it and walks to the middle of the street and away.
- Agents hear "gun" and 3 agents grab guns. I hear nobody telling them that it is "clear" once they have disarmed the guy. However I also do not know if they normally would do that as a guy with one gun may have another. He would be treated as "potentially still armed".
- The first shot that goes off is not on camera, but once it goes at least 9 more follow.

My opinion: This was a clusterf*ck. Someone should lose their job for this mess. However I do not think any of them will face charges, they will be able to use "reasonable officer" thought he was "armed" and was a danger to their life or the lives of others.

I still think that de-escalation training needs to be a priority for these agents, if they plan to work in cities where they will meet this kind of protest they will need to maintain their cool.

That dude pushing everyone was definitively not de-escalating, and I cannot see any reason why he was doing this other than being poorly trained and angry.

End all: Someone should lose their job over this, and they need to spend waaaay more time in training if they are going to play in those cities where they are unwanted. All that being said, "reasonable officer" standard would end with a result that is unsatisfying as the agents would definitely assume he was still armed once they removed one gun... You cannot assume that is the only weapon, but you now know he was armed.
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So having a gun in a holster is reason to shoot? Or if someone shouts gun somewhere around where you’re arresting somebody that’s reason to shoot?
 
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