Ex-IRA commander Martin McGuinness WILL be a guest of the Queen at Windsor Castle

Tyrion the Imp said:
The Muslims had to flee India just the same due to Hindu terrorism. So much for the "secular state".
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What is it about people's total inability to grasp a simple point. That is in pointing to the exigencies of British Rule they are able to overlook the millions that died as a result of Partition. The world is still suffering today for that, you now have an extremely unstable Muslim country with a population of over 140 million armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
WELL THEN; we should just continue the old arguments, untilt they do agree. :palm:
OR; we could more forward in spite of them.
:dunno:
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There's only one side here that can make a difference... the UK.

And as they've shown for 800 years, they ain't interested.

We can sit down and say "OK, the past 800 years is now forgotten. What will it take for you to return the 6 northern counties to the Irish Republic?"

To which they'll say, "We ain't interested."
 
Taft2016 said:
Oh, I agree. But how to move forward if one side insists on complete innocence on their part?
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I never said the Brits were totally innocent, that is something you are desperately trying to concoct for your own ends. I mean holy shit do you really think your arguments, tenuous though they are already, are enhanced by some bullshit about redcoats blah blah blah? You will be talking about the Battle of the Boyne next!! :palm:
 
Taft2016 said:
There's only one side here that can make a difference... the UK.

And as they've shown for 800 years, they ain't interested.

We can sit down and say "OK, the past 800 years is now forgotten. What will it take for you to return the 6 northern counties to the Irish Republic?"

To which they'll say, "We ain't interested."
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Unless you're part of the UK, then I suggest that we let them work it out.
If you are part of the UK, then I'll bow out of the conversation and allow the sniping to continue.
 
Taft2016 said:
There's only one side here that can make a difference... the UK.

And as they've shown for 800 years, they ain't interested.

We can sit down and say "OK, the past 800 years is now forgotten. What will it take for you to return the 6 northern counties to the Irish Republic?"

To which they'll say, "We ain't interested."
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You see that really shows how ignorant you are on the North, it is not down to the British. There would have to be a referendum and on present demographics the Nationalists would lose. If they tried to do it against their will there would be a new war without a shadow of a doubt. Anybody who knows anything about Northern Ireland knows that very well. It is funny that you talk about the antebellum South but still do not understand the nature of Ulstermen.
 
Abraxas said:
Yes and look how many millions died when the Partition of India happened in 1947. Take Lahore for example a most harmonious and peaceful city which ended up in Pakistan and the Hindus and Sikhs had to flee pretty damn quick or face death. What's remarkable is how no more than 250,000 Brits, at a time, were able to control and administer a chaotic country like India for so long and leave it as a functioning democracy. What was the legacy of the Dutch, French, Spanish, German and Portuguese empires, can you name one democracy they left behind?
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That wasn't India's fault, it was the damn Muslims up to no good as usual...
 
Abraxas said:
I never said the Brits were totally innocent, that is something you are desperately trying to concoct for your own ends. I mean holy shit do you really think your arguments, tenuous though they are already, are enhanced by some bullshit about redcoats blah blah blah? You will be talking about the Battle of the Boyne next!! :palm:
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We're not shooting for total innocence, Tom, but rather complete and total culpability for centuries of rape, theft, and murder.
 
Threedee said:
We're not shooting for total innocence, Tom, but rather complete and total culpability for centuries of rape, theft, and murder.
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There were many on the mainland in the 70s and 80s that would have gladly have washed their hands of Northern Ireland and just left them to it. If Britain had done that don't you think they would have been accused of abandoning Northern Ireland like Palestine and India? One thing is certain, there would have been a full scale civil war with many thousands of deaths, it is no exaggeration to say that it would have been similar to Bosnia.

I must that I am totally baffled as to how the average American is able to point fingers about the British Army's conduct whilst ignoring what the US military was doing in South East Asia at the same time. Now that was killing on a truly brutal and an industrial scale, where was the inquiry into US policy and motives?
 
Threedee said:
Northern Ireland would have deserved it for conspiring against their fellow Irishmen all of those years.
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You Americans seem to have a view of Ireland as some kind of bucolic paradise especially back in the earlier part of the 20th century. I blame films like the Quiet Man for that, the reality was actually far different. It was actually a primitive hellhole run by psychotic priests and corrupt parish pump politicians, why would anybody in their right mind want to be run by such a bunch of clowns? Northern Ireland was no paradise either but at least it had some industry and entrepreneurial spirit something that was brutally resisted by arseholes like de Valera who wanted to keep Eire as a backwards inwards looking country. It's funny that interment hasn't been mentioned as it was de Valera who first used it against the IRA back in the '50s.
 
Abraxas said:
You see that really shows how ignorant you are on the North, it is not down to the British. There would have to be a referendum and on present demographics the Nationalists would lose. If they tried to do it against their will there would be a new war without a shadow of a doubt. Anybody who knows anything about Northern Ireland knows that very well. It is funny that you talk about the antebellum South but still do not understand the nature of Ulstermen.
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And we've already gone down this illegitimate road of imperialistic gerrymandering.

It's always been decision for the people of Ireland to make, not a carefully carved out minority who fears losing its privileged status in a small area at the expense of the majority.
 
England can't even do air conditioning and orthodontistry.
Shit they still pay the royal family to lord over their stinky asses.
 
Abraxas said:
You Americans seem to have a view of Ireland as some kind of bucolic paradise especially back in the earlier part of the 20th century. I blame films like the Quiet Man for that, the reality was actually far different. It was actually a primitive hellhole run by psychotic priests and corrupt parish pump politicians, why would anybody in their right mind want to be run by such a bunch of clowns? Northern Ireland was no paradise either but at least it had some industry and entrepreneurial spirit something that was brutally resisted by arseholes like de Valera who wanted to keep Eire as a backwards inwards looking country. It's funny that interment hasn't been mentioned as it was de Valera who first used it against the IRA back in the '50s.
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Quiet Man is a great movie. I watched it again on St. Paddy's Day.

Actually, we Americans do not have a rosy picture of Ireland in our heads. On the contrary, we have a hellish picture of Ireland on account of you fucking Limeys going in there and treating the people as Henry VIII treated his wives.
 
Taft2016 said:
And we've already gone down this illegitimate road of imperialistic gerrymandering.

It's always been decision for the people of Ireland to make, not a carefully carved out minority who fears losing its privileged status in a small area at the expense of the majority.
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D

Do you even understand what the word referendum means? If the British government was as you claim then why have the Scots been given a referendum on independence? Surely those 'imperialistic gerrymanders' as you so imaginatively call them would have denied them a vote.
 
Threedee said:
Quiet Man is a great movie. I watched it again on St. Paddy's Day.

Actually, we Americans do not have a rosy picture of Ireland in our heads. On the contrary, we have a hellish picture of Ireland on account of you fucking Limeys going in there and treating the people as Henry VIII treated his wives.
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Yet you never been to Ireland and are trotting out predictable stereotypes based on fallacies perpetuated by Hollywood. I have seen Ireland throughout several decades from the sixties onwards. If it was such a wonderful place then why are virtually all my relatives over here? It has become a great place in the last few years but that was due to the EU doling out economic aid which ironically came in no small measure via the UK and Germany. Of course that all went sour when they joined the Euro and discovered the downside of that policy. Guess who bailed them out of that crisis? I might also remind that Eire has been an independent country since 1922, so you need to look to incompetent American bastards like de Valera to understand why Ireland was so backward for so many years. You might also ask why the Irish have never needed visas to enter the UK even during the height of the Troubles or during WW2.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
Unless you're part of the UK, then I suggest that we let them work it out.
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Well then perhaps we should all sit down and shut up about Israel, Libya, the Philippines, Crimea, Georgia, Taiwan, et. al.

There's a reason this colonial ugliness has gone on for so long, namely that there are no racial minorities here for hack politicians to rescue with a gesture of grand benevolence.

Just as liberals don't care about black kids gunning down each other on a daily basis in the inner city, but will rise up, engorged with indignation if a white person gets involved....

White people shooting each other up lacks any sexiness, much like black people shooting each other up in Africa.
 
Taft2016 said:
Well then perhaps we should all sit down and shut up about Israel, Libya, the Philippines, Crimea, Georgia, Taiwan, et. al.

There's a reason this colonial ugliness has gone on for so long, namely that there are no racial minorities here for hack politicians to rescue with a gesture of grand benevolence.

Just as liberals don't care about black kids gunning down each other on a daily basis in the inner city, but will rise up, engorged with indignation if a white person gets involved....

White people shooting each other up lacks any sexiness, much like black people shooting each other up in Africa.
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This is where you really show your ignorance, Northern Ireland is a full member of the UK, it is not a colony. If you went there you'd realise that pretty damn quick. There isn't even a border these days, for fuck's sake!!
 
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