Ex-IRA commander Martin McGuinness WILL be a guest of the Queen at Windsor Castle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1920)

The Dublin Gaelic football team was scheduled to play the Tipperary team later the same day in Croke Park, the Gaelic Athletic Association's major football ground. Despite the general unease in Dublin as news broke of the killings, a war-weary populace continued with life. Approximately 5,000 spectators went to Croke Park for the Gaelic football match between Dublin and Tipperary, which began thirty minutes late, at 3:15 p.m.[citation needed]

Meanwhile, outside the Park, unseen by the crowd, British security forces were approaching and preparing to raid the match. A convoy of troops drove in from the northwest, along Clonliffe Road, while a convoy of police and Auxiliaries approached the Park from the south or Canal end. Their orders were to surround the grounds, guard the exits, and search every man in the Park. The authorities later stated that their intention was to announce by megaphone that all males leaving the stadium would be searched and that anyone leaving by other means would be shot. But for some reason, shots were fired as soon as the police convoy reached the stadium, at 3:25 p.m.

Some of the police later claimed that they were fired on first by IRA sentries, but this has never been proven. Correspondents for the Manchester Guardian and Britain's Daily News interviewed eyewitnesses, and concluded that the "IRA sentries" were actually ticket-sellers:

It is the custom at this football ground for tickets to be sold outside the gates by recognised ticket-sellers, who would probably present the appearance of pickets, and would naturally run inside at the approach of a dozen military lorries. No man exposes himself needlessly in Ireland when a military lorry passes by.

The police in the convoy's leading cars appear to have jumped out, pursued these men down the passage to the Canal End gate, forced their way through the turnstiles, and started firing rapidly with rifles and revolvers. Ireland's Freeman's Journal reported that,

The spectators were startled by a volley of shots fired from inside the turnstile entrances. Armed and uniformed men were seen entering the field, and immediately after the firing broke out scenes of the wildest confusion took place. The spectators made a rush for the far side of Croke Park and shots were fired over their heads and into the crowd.[14]

The police kept shooting for about ninety seconds: their commander, Major Mills, later admitted that his men were "excited and out of hand."[15] Some police fired into the fleeing crowd from the pitch, while others, outside the Park, opened fire from the Canal Bridge at spectators who climbed over the Canal End Wall trying to escape. At the other end of the Park, the soldiers on Clonliffe Road were startled first by the sound of the fusillade, then by the sight of panicked people fleeing the grounds. As the spectators streamed out, an armoured car on St James Avenue fired its machine guns over the heads of the crowd, trying to halt them.

By the time Major Mills got his men back under control, the police had fired 114 rounds of rifle ammunition, and an unknown amount of revolver ammunition as well, not counting 50 rounds fired from the machine guns in the armoured car outside the Park.[16] Seven people had been shot to death, and five more had been fatally wounded; another two people had been trampled to death by the crowd. The dead included Jeannie Boyle, who had gone to the match with her fiancé and was due to be married five days later, and two boys aged 10 and 11. Two football players, Michael Hogan and Jim Egan, had been shot; Hogan was killed, but Egan survived, along with dozens of other wounded and injured. The police raiding party suffered no casualties.

Once the firing had been stopped, the security forces searched the remaining men in the crowd before letting them go. The military raiding party recovered one revolver: a local householder testified that a fleeing spectator had thrown it away in his garden. Once the grounds were cleared, the Park was searched for arms, but, according to Major Mills, none were found.[17]

The actions of the police were officially unauthorised and were greeted with public horror by the Dublin Castle-based British authorities. In an effort to cover up the nature of the behaviour by Crown forces, a press release was issued which claimed:

A number of men came to Dublin on Saturday under the guise of asking to attend a football match between Tipperary and Dublin. But their real intention was to take part in the series of murderous outrages which took place in Dublin that morning. Learning on Saturday that a number of these gunmen were present in Croke Park, the Crown forces went to raid the field. It was the original intention that an officer would go to the centre of the field and speaking from a megaphone, invite the assassins to come forward. But on their approach, armed pickets gave warning. Shots were fired to warn the wanted men, who caused a stampede and escaped in the confusion.[citation needed]

The Times which during the war was a pro-Unionist publication, ridiculed Dublin Castle's version of events, as did a British Labour Party delegation visiting Ireland at the time. The British Brigadier Frank Crozier, technically in command that day, later resigned over what he believed was the official condoning of the unjustified actions of the Auxiliaries in Croke Park. One of his officers told him that, "Black and Tans fired into the crowd without any provocation whatsoever".

Two military courts of inquiry into the massacre were held, and one found that "the fire of the RIC was carried out without orders and exceeded the demands of the situation." Major-General Boyd, the officer commanding Dublin District, added that in his opinion, "the firing on the crowd was carried out without orders, was indiscriminate, and unjustifiable, with the exception of any shooting which took place inside the enclosure."[18] The findings of these courts of inquiry were suppressed by the British Government, and only came to light in 2000.
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I know what.
Let's all just live in the past, continue to point fingers at the other side.
That way we can continue the problems, rather then move forward.
Because it seems that moving forward scares to many people and they feel safer with the past.

:palm:
 
Fucking Sinn Fein actually agrees to attend the fucking queen, and Tom's problem is that they were invited at all. Man, Tom, they should hire you as a diplomat.
 
Abraxas said:
I am afraid yours is a piss poor analogy, when was Israel ever a part of the USA? The IRA was a vicious terrorist organisation supported by fools in the USA and by Ghaddafi. It was US money, via Noraid, that paid for Semtex and weapons. The US has blood on its hands but steadfastedly refuses to acknowledge that fact.

I have been to every county in Ireland both north and south, I'll bet that is more than your Dublin cabbie can say. I am still amazed that Dublin was never seriously a target from Unionist terrorists maybe if it had been then the Troubles would have ended far more quickly.
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^

Tom on record supporting Unionist terrorism.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
This pointing fingers at each other, accomplishes nothing; because something also could be said in reference to British Troops firing into crowds of protesters in India.
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Yes and look how many millions died when the Partition of India happened in 1947. Take Lahore for example a most harmonious and peaceful city which ended up in Pakistan and the Hindus and Sikhs had to flee pretty damn quick or face death. What's remarkable is how no more than 250,000 Brits, at a time, were able to control and administer a chaotic country like India for so long and leave it as a functioning democracy. What was the legacy of the Dutch, French, Spanish, German and Portuguese empires, can you name one democracy they left behind?
 
Abraxas said:
The Six Counties remained part of the UK because the majority of the population wanted it that way, that's called democracy. As I said before I recommend that book as it will clear up a few canards that you seem to believe in. I have heard the story that the UDA and UFF were funded by government, that was never an official policy, it might have happened on an ad hoc local basis though. If you really want to know about Northern Ireland you should read that book, it is even written by an American, and learn the truth. However you can always just listen to a friendly Dublin cabby instead.
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They remained part of the UK because protestants existed there, no one wanted the dirty papists to dirty the hands of a single protestant. If there were a single protestant present in Dublin, it would've been forced to remain part of the UK too.
 
Abraxas said:
Yes and look how many millions died when the Partition of India happened in 1947. Take Lahore for example a most harmonious and peaceful city which ended up in Pakistan and the Hindus and Sikhs had to flee pretty damn quick or face death. What's remarkable is how no more than 250,000 Brits, at a time, were able to control and administer a chaotic country like India for so long and leave it as a functioning democracy. What was the legacy of the Dutch, French, Spanish, German and Portuguese empires, can you name one democracy they left behind?
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The Muslims had to flee India just the same due to Hindu terrorism. So much for the "secular state".
 
Tyrion the Imp said:
They remained part of the UK because protestants existed there, no one wanted the dirty papists to dirty the hands of a single protestant. If there were a single protestant present in Dublin, it would've been forced to remain part of the UK too.
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This just in! Video of Mr. and Mrs. Tyrion.

 
Abraxas said:
Yes and look how many millions died when the Partition of India happened in 1947. Take Lahore for example a most harmonious and peaceful city which ended up in Pakistan and the Hindus and Sikhs had to flee pretty damn quick or face death. What's remarkable is how no more than 250,000 Brits, at a time, were able to control and administer a chaotic country like India for so long and leave it as a functioning democracy.
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So clearly India should still be part of the British Empire.
 
Abraxas said:
I didn't answer them because they are red herrings, the British government had an exhaustive iinquiry into Bloody Sunday yet not once has Gerry Adams or McGuinness ever owned up to diddly shit. over 3,500 people died in Northern Ireland during the Troubles aided by stupid Americans who didn't know any better.

I just want to make sure you understand the conflict properly. The situation actually began in 1968 when militant Protestants attacked a civil rights march which had both Catholic and Protestant participants. Many of the Protestants in Northern Ireland took no side in the conflict, as many were moderate. The British Army actually arrived to protect the Catholics from Protestant violence, but then militant Catholics started retaliatory bombings and shooting, which brought down hate from the Ulster Unionists in general. The Official IRA disbanded in 1970 but the psychos took over and carried on as the Provisional IRA because they wanted an all-Ireland Marxist state.
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The IRA split into two factions in 1970, the Official and Provisional IRA. The Provisional IRA was intent on direct confrontation and retaliation against the protestants, and was pissed off at the IRA's policy of dithering around with dreams of an all-Ireland Marxist state and otherwise doing nothing. The Official IRA wanted to continue the old IRA's policy. The Official IRA was later disbanded, the side it was associated with became the Workers Party of Ireland (in Ireland itself, it suffered a major split with the Democratic Left, which eventually joined up with the Irish Labor Party). The Provisional IRA continued on longer, the party we call Sinn Fein today is associated with that side of the split.
 
Abraxas said:
Yes and look how many millions died when the Partition of India happened in 1947. Take Lahore for example a most harmonious and peaceful city which ended up in Pakistan and the Hindus and Sikhs had to flee pretty damn quick or face death. What's remarkable is how no more than 250,000 Brits, at a time, were able to control and administer a chaotic country like India for so long and leave it as a functioning democracy. What was the legacy of the Dutch, French, Spanish, German and Portuguese empires, can you name one democracy they left behind?
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Refer to post #44
 
Tyrion the Imp said:
Apparently Tom's solution to the troubles in Northern Ireland is just to piss on one side and pretend yours never did anything wrong.
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Yes because you living in Mississippi are bound to know more than me who was born to Irish parents, brought up on tales of the Old Sod, Black and Tans, de Valera and the nasty Brits. Travelled and worked in every part of Ireland, spoke to both sides of the sectarian divide and got in one or two fights in the process.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
I know what.
Let's all just live in the past, continue to point fingers at the other side.
That way we can continue the problems, rather then move forward.
Because it seems that moving forward scares to many people and they feel safer with the past.

:palm:
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Oh, I agree. But how to move forward if one side insists on complete innocence on their part?
 
Abraxas said:
Yes because you living in Mississippi are bound to know more than me who was born to Irish parents, brought up on tales of the Old Sod, Black and Tans, de Valera and the nasty Brits. Travelled and worked in every part of Ireland, spoke to both sides of the sectarian divide and got in one or two fights in the process.
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... and oddly enough, came away from it all with so little accurate information.
 
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