Did NATO cause the war in Ukraine?

Cypress said:
How many Ukraine women deserve to be raped, and how many Ukranian cities deserve to be shelled into rubble because you and Putin are angry that they overwhelmingly elected a president who seeks ties to European institutions like EU and NATO?
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the interim president of Ukraine before Poroshenko (Turchynov )was appointed by Parliament - not elected
we were instrumental in throwing out Yanukovych- disenfranchising the Donbas region
 
AssHatZombie said:
such good people.

they have to keep creating wars for the military industrial complex whom they really work for.
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it's the same Cold warriors then (Nuland) that are pursuing the hot war with Russia now
McCain is dead or he'd be there too.
Rice is still around from regime change days of Libya

The bad apples stick around
 
Cypress said:
Why wouldn't Ukrainians want a pro-Kyiv faction? That is their capital and their most sacred city.

You keep saying there was an active, organized CIA coup to overthrow the Kiev government, but you have never provided a reputable and credible mainstream journalistic source to back that up.

You know what I saw on television in 2014? I saw grassroots Ukrainian citizens revolting in the streets of Kyiv. Those were not CIA agents revolting in the streets.

And you keep running away from the fact that Zalensky was legitimately and overwhelmingly elected in a democratic contest.
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gawd almighty. howmany times have I gone over this? The Maidan was not an organic revolution it was a protest by Kyiv factions to the signing of the deal with Putin for joining the Eurasian Economic Community in return for Putin forgiving like 80 billion in nat gas debts the Ukraine

Nuland/Kagan/Mccain were on the ground there - and whipped the crowd up to start a demonstration
that stated the "police riot"
Once that happened the crowd became violent and some went to the presidential palace to overthrow Yanukovych

McCain was onstage giving Nazi salutes. Nuland was passing out cookies and telling the crowd (along with Kagan) "now you are freedom fighters" stoking the revolution.. etc

Zelensky won because he promised not to be corrupt, then became corrupt and attempted to throw Poroshenko in jail.. we used Zelensky by promising NATO "consideration" and weapons to gin up th weapons to Ukraine.
Zelensky is an actor and knows how to ride the US gravy train of aid
 
anatta said:
Over the past 22 years in particular, several of America’s policies, miscues and miscalculations towards Russia have backfired. None can be used as an excuse for Russian President Vladimir Putin’s illegal and horrific war in Ukraine. But a brief review of U.S.-Russian relations underscores the power of unintended consequences.

Putin became acting Russian president on New Year’s Day 2000, the same year George W. Bush would be elected America’s 43rd president. The Boris Yeltsin presidency left Russia in dire straits, psychologically damaged by the demise of its once superpower status. In his Millennium Address that day, Putin provided the outlines of how he would restore Russian greatness.

Initially, Bush and Putin got along. But the new administration’s obsession with Iran as the enemy led Bush to focus the Pentagon on missile defense and space. One consequence was that Bush announced America’s intent to withdraw from the 1974 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty that had been central to the U.S.-USSR strategic relationship. Abrogating the treaty did not go down well in Moscow, especially given the the huge military technological lead the Kremlin believed Washington had after the 1991 Gulf War. That was before 9-11.

When America intervened in Afghanistan in late 2001, Putin was irritated because the Bush team rejected Russian advice based on its decade-long failure in that country. In 2003, Putin strongly counseled Bush against invading Iraq, as the Russian leader feared the region would be thrown into turmoil. And the continuing expansion of NATO was neuralgic for Russia. A series of U.S. administrations downplayed or ignored how serious this issue was for Russia.

At the Munich Security Conference, Putin unleashed an angry broadside against the U.S. as a “uni-power” and against NATO expansion. Participants were shocked by the intensity of Putin’s attacks but otherwise largely dismissed them. That was a mistake. It was clear that Putin believed he was being disrespected and marginalized by the U.S. and NATO, adding to his growing resentment about the patronizing treatment he believed Russia was receiving.

The 2008 NATO Summit at Bucharest was perhaps the turning point. Georgia and Ukraine had applied for NATO MAP — Membership Action Plan, the roadmap to full membership. Blocked by France and Germany, MAP was denied. But in a throwaway line, President Bush stated that Georgia and Ukraine could at some date join. That “promise” was included in the final summit report so as not to offend the American president.

Putin was outraged and told Bush “this will not stand,” echoing George H. W. Bush’s response to Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Kuwait in 1990. Bush dismissed the warning.

In 2008, Putin provoked Georgia to respond to a Russian “false flag” operation and subsequently occupied South Ossetia and Abkhazia. With contested borders, Georgia was technically ineligible for NATO membership. Six years later, Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine following the Maidan Square protests and the unseating of pro-Russia President Viktor Yanukovych, accusing Washington of abetting regime change.

In 2016, Russia was charged with interfering in U.S. presidential elections and widespread hacking operations. Despite President Trump’s attempt to improve relations with Putin, at best they remained frozen. Some Democrats accused Trump of being Putin’s “useful idiot.” And relations were made more toxic by a series of U.S. defense strategies, beginning with the Obama administration targeting Russia as one of five potential adversaries to be “deterred and, if war came, defeated.”

Perhaps the incompetent U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan in August 2021 convinced Putin he could take bold action in Ukraine without much risk. After massing troops on Ukraine’s borders, Russia subsequently sent demands to the U.S., NATO and EU calling for a new European security framework; NATO retraction to the West; and denying Ukraine NATO membership.

Instead, the U.S. proposed talks on strategic stability and arms control, ignoring Putin’s key demands. When Putin decided to invade Ukraine is unclear. But from his perspective, he was left with no choice. Ukraine was a vital Russian interest to be resolved by war if necessary. The West failed to comprehend that.

Could any U.S. actions have prevented war? Probably not. But failure to consider unintended consequences is a lesson that should not be forgotten. Perhaps that is what the pope meant.
https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/3484182-did-nato-cause-the-war-in-ukraine/
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You actually blame NATO for Putin's aggression? :palm:

When are you going to stop sucking Putin's cock?
 
anatta said:
Did NATO cause the war in Ukraine?
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No. And that is a really dumb question and here is why; it presumes that Putin had a LOGICAL reason to invade a neighboriing country causing death and destruction and brining the world to the brink of another war in Europe using threats of nuclear retaliation.

Putin is the reason there is a war in Ukraine. No other reason. :palm:
 
Cypress said:
Name how many NATO soldiers are currently standing on Russian territory, report how many Russian civilians have been killed by NATO soldiers, and identify the Russian cities shelled to piles of ash by NATO artillery.
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Shoot me now! I agree with this idiot! :laugh:
 
Truth Detector said:
No. And that is a really dumb question and here is why; it presumes that Putin had a LOGICAL reason to invade a neighboriing country causing death and destruction and brining the world to the brink of another war in Europe using threats of nuclear retaliation.

Putin is the reason there is a war in Ukraine. No other reason. :palm:
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For once you make sense.
 
Truth Detector said:
No. And that is a really dumb question and here is why; it presumes that Putin had a LOGICAL reason to invade a neighboriing country causing death and destruction and brining the world to the brink of another war in Europe using threats of nuclear retaliation.

Putin is the reason there is a war in Ukraine. No other reason. :palm:
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plenty of "logical reasons"
Putin sent letters to Biden outlining his concerns before the invasion -Biden laughed them off
 
AssHatZombie said:
the u.s. was agitating back in 2014.
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WRONG. Putin was. We didn't encourage him to invade Crimea. We didn't encourage him to invade Ukraine. Putin is a megolamaniac who has lost any sense of reality, common sense or decency.

However, you can make a case that the idiots in the Biden adminstration wanted a war and continue to do nothing to end the carnage and instead, feed it with billions of dollars they could never spend on our own borders. ;)
 
moonBAT said:
Yes- and if it continues to press the Russians it will start WW3.

It's possible that Erdogan in Turkey might block Finland and Russia. You'd better cross your fingers.
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lunacy
noun
lu·na·cy | \ ˈlü-nə-sē \
a: INSANITY sense
b: intermittent insanity once believed to be related to phases of the moon
2: wild foolishness : extravagant folly
3: a foolish act
 
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