Sammy Jankis
Was it me?
Now Im all shiny and glowy!
Despite the Ass-kissing, Stimulus Plan Passes Without a Single Republican Vote
- Thread starter blackascoal
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Now Im all shiny and glowy!
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The Almighty
We can most certainly have the conversation... but pretending that tax cuts don't work simply because of where we are now is quite simply... ignorant.
As I said, there is a balance. You cannot cut taxes without eventually cutting spending. It was the massive spending, the removal of Glass Steagall and the insanely low interest rates from Greenspan from 2001-2004 that killed us. It was not the tax cuts. If you decrease taxes too far, you don't have the revenue you need, if you raise them too much you stiffle growth. So those who say tax cuts don't work are just as moronic as those that say they always work. It is a package deal. You CAN cut taxes and increase spending in the short run. Both provide stimulus to the economy. But you cannot do both for the long run. THAT is where the problems occur.
As for small businesses... true, most end up failing... but here is a secret... those that are not profitable... are not paying taxes on income. It is the profitable small businesses that are being supported with tax cuts on their income.
Side note... tax cuts ARE a smaller percentage of this package than spending.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
The fact that you're still in the dark about this is fairly astounding.
The fact that you don't seem to have the curiosity to research what is truth is even more astounding.
If I may .. you're a democrat .. you don't speak for those of us on the left .. whom you call "lefties."
I researched what the tax cuts actually were. Like I said, the guy in your interview could offer up "what I've heard" on the tax cuts as his main line of reasoning for "the cave."
I'm on the left. You don't speak for me, either; at all.
Remember Happy Days? When Fonzie jumped the shark near the end of its run?
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The Almighty
Corporations are not going to be able to hire people in other countries for jobs that HAVE to be done here.
Sorry, but you cannot pay someone in India to build a bridge here in the US. That is why the jobs created should be infrastructure buildout. Either the traditional such as upgrading roads, bridges, damns, levees etc... or a buildout of renewable energy capabilities. (yes, I know... you think they are bogus... blah blah blah)
actually the Senate is a part of Congress.
Though it is quite different than the House.
Yeah. I meant the House...
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The Almighty
charver
You lookin' at my pint?
Indeed, the phrase was a mainstay of everybody's favourite ex-moderator - our own dear mbl/Beefy/Swollen - if i'm not mistaken.
Sammy Jankis
Was it me?
Ok. But to save jobs at all levels, we should implement protectionist measures. It;s not communism. It's not naziism. It's the ideology that made america strong and self sufficient.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Sure .. then there is reality.
Bush tax cut mythology
As the debate turns to economic stimulus, we’re starting to hear this: “Bush realized that the economy needed help, so he asked Congress to enact tax cuts to provide stimulus. And this turned the economy around.”
None of this is true.
There were two main Bush tax cuts — EGTRRA, enacted in mid-2001, and JGTRRA, enacted in 2003. (What do the letters stand for? All sorts of good stuff. If we ever have legislation decreeing death of the first-born, it will be named MPAPRA, the Motherhood Patriotism and Apple Pie Reconcilation Act, or something like that.) (I think I screwed up the letters on the chart, but it really doesn’t matter.)
Here’s the employment-population ratio, which gives a pretty good read on the state of the economy, and the timing of the two tax cuts.
Click on link for the graph
EGTRRA arrived in the middle of a recession, but that was an accident. It was devised in 1999, when the economy was booming, to defend Bush’s right flank against Steve Forbes. During the 2000 campaign, Bush sold it as a way of returning budget surpluses to the people, with not a hint that it had something to do with fighting recession. The recession story was an after-the-fact reinvention.
And EGTRRA didn’t seem to help all that much. Formally, the recession ended in late 2001, but most labor-market indicators continued to worsen into mid-2003.
JGTRRA, which mainly cut tax rates on capital gains and dividends, was followed by a real recovery. And the Bushies naturally claimed the credit. But the real source of the expansion was the housing boom, which had very little to do with the tax cut.
This is today’s history lesson.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/14/bush-tax-cut-mythology/
A lesson from the guy who won the Nobel Prize for Economics.
By the way, I never said tax cuts weren't smaller than spending .. I said they should be much smaller.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
I'm comfortable with whatever you want to call yourself. Your reasoning is not on the left.
Krugman has already done that, as have other economists, when the first round of "FDR caused the depression" started coming from the right wing revisionists.
It's probably in archived stuff on his blog. I remember it was very interesting reading.
I like the idea of becoming the source of the new "green" technology. The producers. Production will get us out of it, not temporary infrastructure investment. (Although infrastructure is important). While I may disagree on the reason for the need, the idea is a good one regardless.
Sammy Jankis
Was it me?
An entire industry created by government fiat? It's fucking dumb. sorry. these kinds of irrational bubbles are what got us here.
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The Almighty
right... it protects the unionized public schools from competition.
Do you understand the difference between public and private? Do you know what sort of funds are paying for this bill? Are they public, or private dollars?