Democrats and Rural Voters

AssHatZombie said:
so you cant admit a labor glut drives down wages.
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There are twice as many open jobs as there are unemployed people. There has never been so many jobs for so few people. We are literally the furthest from a labor glut we have ever been.

Immigrants cause both more labor, and more jobs. In fact, more economic activity usually causes more jobs at a quicker rate than more labor.
 
Walt said:
That is far from a fact. If it were a fact, the USA would be one of the poorest countries on earth. We were built by immigrants.
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if the economy is expanding overall the effects are not seen as much.

our economic growth is paltry and mostly an on paper figment.

organic growth is paltry.
 
Walt said:
There are twice as many open jobs as there are unemployed people. There has never been so many jobs for so few people. We are literally the furthest from a labor glut we have ever been.

Immigrants cause both more labor, and more jobs. In fact, more economic activity usually causes more jobs at a quicker rate than more labor.
Click to expand...

no.

they're advertising so many open jobs to influence immigration policy. it;s propaganda.
 
Walt said:
So if the economy is expanding due to more immigration, then immigration will not cause downward pressure on wages?
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but the operative case now is that its just driving down wages and the increased spending is not there for the current crop of immigrants.

this is the case when british or american expats are required to buy a property of a certain value to immigrate to some bahamian commonwealth and cannot work there... etc..... then it;s a gain for the counry. that's the referenced win/win.
 
cawacko said:
This is some serious revisionist history. A very small portion of the right? She called half of Trump supporters deplorables. And it's a term used regularly by the left to describe Republicans. (And I say Republicans because even I've been called it and I'm not a Trump voter.)

I'm basically the opposite of a rural person so I'm not going to pretend to speak for rural voters. But I can surmise being told you're a deplorable, redneck and we disapprove of your lifestyle is generally not a recommended way to win people over to your side. (Again, read what Mott has written previously. It's good stuff.)
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Let me be up front…I was going to vote for Trump over Clinton no matter what. But my attitude about voting for him was, shall we say, less than enthusiastic. He was boorish, talking about somebody’s “small hands” among other vulgar stuff … but he was what the choice had come down to. Unlike other presidential candidates I had supported I had no campaign stuff. No flags, no bumper stickers … nothing. Nothing, that is, until that “deplorable” comment. Obama had talked disparagingly about “us” clinging to our guns and Bibles “in fear,” but the deplorable comment made me mad. So much so that I went right out and bought this shirt …



I’ll refrain from addressing the football/NCAA portion of your post. ;)
 
leaningright said:
Let me be up front…I was going to vote for Trump over Clinton no matter what. But my attitude about voting for him was, shall we say, less than enthusiastic. He was boorish, talking about somebody’s “small hands” among other vulgar stuff … but he was what the choice had come down to. Unlike other presidential candidates I had supported I had no campaign stuff. No flags, no bumper stickers … nothing. Nothing, that is, until that “deplorable” comment. Obama had talked disparagingly about “us” clinging to our guns and Bibles “in fear,” but the deplorable comment made me mad. So much so that I went right out and bought this shirt …



I’ll refrain from addressing the football/NCAA portion of your post. ;)
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Haha. I know us Trojans aren't going to be on the OU fans Christmas mailing lists. :)

You are not alone in having concerns about Trump prior to the election in 2016. There are a couple of realities we all face. By the nature of our system you essentially have two choices if you want to vote for a winner. And we are often told voting for a third party or writing someone in is a cop out. Thus the phrase "voting for the lessor of two evils" that we so often hear.

And we've seen people today blaming the Bernie voters who stayed home in '16 for costing them the Supreme Court. Same justification can be used for those who didn't love Trump but wanted to see a more conservative Supreme Court and thus voted for him. This is reality. (You'll notice one of the early posts ITT mocking people who didn't love Trump for voting for him 'because of Hillary'. It's like, are you new to politics? Or do these people absolutely love every single candidate they vote for?)

But to your point, we've seen people on the left regularly refer to Republicans as deplorables. So this idea that Hillary said it once about a small number of people and the media is distorting it is absolutely false. It's exactly how they feel. (And by continuing to call us that it takes the focus off their own short comings but that's another discussion.)
 
Mina said:
The NYT has an article called "What Democrats Don’t Understand About Rural America" looking at why Democrats are failing to win with rural voters:

In the story, a rural woman in Maine said that she'd been
undecided between Clinton and Trump until Election Day but voted for Trump because, at the Republican convention, he talked about regular American working people and Clinton didn’t at her convention.

So, is that true?

We have the transcripts telling us exactly what each candidate said at the convention. Clinton spoke of "working people" four times, Trump once. For Trump, it was a one-liner about how his (slum-lord) father taught him to respect working people. For Clinton, those four references were part of the main section of her speech, which served as its central theme, talking about the struggles of working people and what the government could do to help:

"I’ve gone around our country talking to working families. And I’ve heard from so many of you who feel like the economy just isn’t working. Some of you are frustrated – even furious. And you know what??? You’re right. It’s not yet working the way it should. Americans are willing to work – and work hard. But right now, an awful lot of people feel there is less and less respect for the work they do. And less respect for them, period. Democrats are the party of working people. But we haven’t done a good enough job showing that we get what you’re going through, and that we’re going to do something about it. So I want to tell you tonight how we will empower Americans to live better lives. My primary mission as President will be to create more opportunity and more good jobs with rising wages right here in the United States… From my first day in office to my last! Especially in places that for too long have been left out and left behind. From our inner cities to our small towns, from Indian Country to Coal Country. From communities ravaged by addiction to regions hollowed out by plant closures..... Whatever party you belong to, or if you belong to no party at all, if you share these beliefs, this is your campaign. If you believe that companies should share profits with their workers, not pad executive bonuses, join us. If you believe the minimum wage should be a living wage… and no one working full time should have to raise their children in poverty… join us. If you believe that every man, woman, and child in America has the right to affordable health care…join us.... And yes, if you believe that your working mother, wife, sister, or daughter deserves equal pay… join us… Let’s make sure this economy works for everyone, not just those at the top.

Again and again she spoke about working people -- her own mother working as a house maid at age 14, hard-working immigrants, those with hopes of starting a small business who can't get bank loans to finance their dreams, and the working people Trump had stiffed over the years, as he regularly refused to pay his bills in full, forcing contractors to negotiate or litigate to get paid what he owed them. Then she went through a long list of specific plans, all built around the needs of working people.

Trump, by comparison, was five pages into his speech before he even got around to talking about jobs. His speech focused first and most on "violence in the streets and chaos in our communities." Time and again, it was about "terrorism and lawlessness." His promises were focused not around economic ideas for working people, but rather "appointing the best prosecutors and law enforcement," while fighting immigration.

So, I think we can say with confidence that the interviewed rural woman was lying about why she chose to vote for Trump. As a simple matter of FACT, Hillary Clinton spoke far more extensively about working people than Trump did. Trump ran on fear -- fear of Black people running wild in inner cities, fear of Hispanic immigrants, and fear of Muslim terrorists. Fear of the unfamiliar was the core theme of his speech, and that's what won over the rural voters.
Click to expand...

As someone raised in the country I can tell you right now that reason rural folk don’t vote Democrat is because Democrats have done little to nothing for rural folks. Not economically or in a civic manner.

It’s a simple as that. The Democratic Party is dismissive of rural folk. View them as ignorant and uninformed, even when the rural person is better educated than they are.

All of the Democrats big plans for economic growth are centered disproportionately in urban areas with little thought or care for rural and small town economic development Which is not an entirely false situation. It’s pretty alienating when poor rural white folk are told they are cause of others problems when in truth all they’ve ever done was bust their ass to provide for their family and coming up short on their hopes and dreams. Democratic identity politics is has also shown that Democrats place rural and working class white guys as people to be despised and ridiculed as opposed to the reality that they largely built this country with their productive abilities.

There are all sorts of ways Democrats have shown rural and working class people they don’t give a shit about them.

That the Republicans don’t really give a shit about them is manifestly obvious from an economic standpoint. Yet Republicans are at least respectful towards them and stand by them on mostly on social issue.

Democrats are also naive to the point of obtuseness that issues of high importance in urban areas often have little significance in rural areas. The opposite may also be true but those are issues to be discussed and reasoned over and not dismissed out of hand.

Right now the Democratic Party is not the big tent party it used to be. The Democratic Party has become the Party of the Educated allied to diversity and white working class men ain’t welcome.

So that’s why they don’t identify with Democrats. Democrats claims to be the party of the working class but have stood by like pussies while Republicans exploit them economically into a minimum wage serfdom while Democrats have been to weak to put up a fight for them.

In the last 50 years productivity in our nation has exploded while the standard of living for working and middle class folks has not and is declining. Now though this has been undoubtedly caused by Republican policies the fact that Democrats have been so weak and ineffectual to change this trend for over 50 years does not inspire confidence.

If Democrats want to win these voters they need to make some serious changes.

What they mostly need to do is go out into rural communities and start competing with Republicans find out what their needs are an then actually do something for them.

Till that happens Democrats are just blowing smoke when they talk about rural and working class folk. They are tired of talk and want results that improve their life’s. There has been damned few meaningful results by Democrats in the last 50 years.m
 
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Mina said:
The NYT has an article called "What Democrats Don’t Understand About Rural America" looking at why Democrats are failing to win with rural voters:

In the story, a rural woman in Maine said that she'd been
undecided between Clinton and Trump until Election Day but voted for Trump because, at the Republican convention, he talked about regular American working people and Clinton didn’t at her convention.

So, is that true?

We have the transcripts telling us exactly what each candidate said at the convention. Clinton spoke of "working people" four times, Trump once. For Trump, it was a one-liner about how his (slum-lord) father taught him to respect working people. For Clinton, those four references were part of the main section of her speech, which served as its central theme, talking about the struggles of working people and what the government could do to help:

"I’ve gone around our country talking to working families. And I’ve heard from so many of you who feel like the economy just isn’t working. Some of you are frustrated – even furious. And you know what??? You’re right. It’s not yet working the way it should. Americans are willing to work – and work hard. But right now, an awful lot of people feel there is less and less respect for the work they do. And less respect for them, period. Democrats are the party of working people. But we haven’t done a good enough job showing that we get what you’re going through, and that we’re going to do something about it. So I want to tell you tonight how we will empower Americans to live better lives. My primary mission as President will be to create more opportunity and more good jobs with rising wages right here in the United States… From my first day in office to my last! Especially in places that for too long have been left out and left behind. From our inner cities to our small towns, from Indian Country to Coal Country. From communities ravaged by addiction to regions hollowed out by plant closures..... Whatever party you belong to, or if you belong to no party at all, if you share these beliefs, this is your campaign. If you believe that companies should share profits with their workers, not pad executive bonuses, join us. If you believe the minimum wage should be a living wage… and no one working full time should have to raise their children in poverty… join us. If you believe that every man, woman, and child in America has the right to affordable health care…join us.... And yes, if you believe that your working mother, wife, sister, or daughter deserves equal pay… join us… Let’s make sure this economy works for everyone, not just those at the top.

Again and again she spoke about working people -- her own mother working as a house maid at age 14, hard-working immigrants, those with hopes of starting a small business who can't get bank loans to finance their dreams, and the working people Trump had stiffed over the years, as he regularly refused to pay his bills in full, forcing contractors to negotiate or litigate to get paid what he owed them. Then she went through a long list of specific plans, all built around the needs of working people.

Trump, by comparison, was five pages into his speech before he even got around to talking about jobs. His speech focused first and most on "violence in the streets and chaos in our communities." Time and again, it was about "terrorism and lawlessness." His promises were focused not around economic ideas for working people, but rather "appointing the best prosecutors and law enforcement," while fighting immigration.

So, I think we can say with confidence that the interviewed rural woman was lying about why she chose to vote for Trump. As a simple matter of FACT, Hillary Clinton spoke far more extensively about working people than Trump did. Trump ran on fear -- fear of Black people running wild in inner cities, fear of Hispanic immigrants, and fear of Muslim terrorists. Fear of the unfamiliar was the core theme of his speech, and that's what won over the rural voters.
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gosh, lib'ruls know what rural people think better than rural people do......and despite that, rural people still don't vote for them........
 
Mina said:
There's the Republican mindset in an nutshell: start with the conclusion and simply assume all evidence must be in support of it. Don't ever bother actually reading.
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lol.....you just called cawhacko a Republican.......he voted for Feinstein and against Trump......
 
Mott the Hoople said:
As someone raised in the country I can tell you right now that reason rural folk don’t vote Democrat is because Democrats have done little to nothing for rural folks. Not economically or in a civic manner.

It’s a simple as that. The Democratic Party is dismissive of rural folk. View them as ignorant and uninformed, even when the rural person is better educated than they are.

All of the Democrats big plans for economic growth are centered disproportionately in urban areas with little thought or care for rural and small town economic development Which is not an entirely false situation. It’s pretty alienating when poor rural white folk are told they are cause of others problems when in truth all they’ve ever done was bust their ass to provide for their family and coming up short on their hopes and dreams. Democratic identity politics is has also shown that Democrats place rural and working class white guys as people to be despised and ridiculed as opposed to the reality that they largely built this country with their productive abilities.

There are all sorts of ways Democrats have shown rural and working class people they don’t give a shit about them.

That the Republicans don’t really give a shit about them is manifestly obvious from an economic standpoint. Yet Republicans are at least respectful towards them and stand by them on mostly on social issue.

Democrats are also naive to the point of obtuseness that issues of high importance in urban areas often have little significance in rural areas. The opposite may also be true but those are issues to be discussed and reasoned over and not dismissed out of hand.

Right now the Democratic Party is not the big tent party it used to be. The Democratic Party has become the Party of the Educated allied to diversity and white working class men ain’t welcome.

So that’s why they don’t identify with Democrats. Democrats claims to be the party of the working class but have stood by like pussies while Republicans exploit them economically into a minimum wage serfdom while Democrats have been to weak to put up a fight for them.

In the last 50 years productivity in our nation has exploded while the standard of living for working and middle class folks has not and is declining. Now though this has been undoubtedly caused by Republican policies the fact that Democrats have been so weak and ineffectual to change this trend for over 50 years does not inspire confidence.

If Democrats want to win these voters they need to make some serious changes.

What they mostly need to do is go out into rural communities and start competing with Republicans find out what their needs are an then actually do something for them.

Till that happens Democrats are just blowing smoke when they talk about rural and working class folk. They are tired of talk and want results that improve their life’s. There has been damned few meaningful results by Democrats in the last 50 years.m
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I was hoping you would chime in.

Not that this board should be taken all that seriously but I do think certain attitudes here are representative. For example, look at how certain right wing posters here speak about black people. That they are mostly criminals and thugs etc. Now I think a good argument can be made that conservative policies are beneficial to the black community but that aside, is it surprising they don't vote for the party with people who openly say that/think that about them?

And then you have Democrats and rural working class whites. How many here call them uneducated, racist, flyover country trailer park scum. Again, is it shocking they don't rush out to vote for Democrats with that attitude?
 
AssHatZombie said:
no.

they're advertising so many open jobs to influence immigration policy. it;s propaganda.
Click to expand...

Is that what you tell yourself when you cannot get a job? All the business world is lying about job opens, just to mess with you?

I have not seen the empty grocery shelves that the alt right claims, and I will hazard a guess that no one else has. I have seen businesses closed for a day or two because they cannot find staff, and I will hazard a guess that everyone else has too.
 
Mina said:
The NYT has an article called "What Democrats Don’t Understand About Rural America" looking at why Democrats are failing to win with rural voters:

In the story, a rural woman in Maine said that she'd been
undecided between Clinton and Trump until Election Day but voted for Trump because, at the Republican convention, he talked about regular American working people and Clinton didn’t at her convention.

So, is that true?

We have the transcripts telling us exactly what each candidate said at the convention. Clinton spoke of "working people" four times, Trump once. For Trump, it was a one-liner about how his (slum-lord) father taught him to respect working people. For Clinton, those four references were part of the main section of her speech, which served as its central theme, talking about the struggles of working people and what the government could do to help:

"I’ve gone around our country talking to working families. And I’ve heard from so many of you who feel like the economy just isn’t working. Some of you are frustrated – even furious. And you know what??? You’re right. It’s not yet working the way it should. Americans are willing to work – and work hard. But right now, an awful lot of people feel there is less and less respect for the work they do. And less respect for them, period. Democrats are the party of working people. But we haven’t done a good enough job showing that we get what you’re going through, and that we’re going to do something about it. So I want to tell you tonight how we will empower Americans to live better lives. My primary mission as President will be to create more opportunity and more good jobs with rising wages right here in the United States… From my first day in office to my last! Especially in places that for too long have been left out and left behind. From our inner cities to our small towns, from Indian Country to Coal Country. From communities ravaged by addiction to regions hollowed out by plant closures..... Whatever party you belong to, or if you belong to no party at all, if you share these beliefs, this is your campaign. If you believe that companies should share profits with their workers, not pad executive bonuses, join us. If you believe the minimum wage should be a living wage… and no one working full time should have to raise their children in poverty… join us. If you believe that every man, woman, and child in America has the right to affordable health care…join us.... And yes, if you believe that your working mother, wife, sister, or daughter deserves equal pay… join us… Let’s make sure this economy works for everyone, not just those at the top.

Again and again she spoke about working people -- her own mother working as a house maid at age 14, hard-working immigrants, those with hopes of starting a small business who can't get bank loans to finance their dreams, and the working people Trump had stiffed over the years, as he regularly refused to pay his bills in full, forcing contractors to negotiate or litigate to get paid what he owed them. Then she went through a long list of specific plans, all built around the needs of working people.

Trump, by comparison, was five pages into his speech before he even got around to talking about jobs. His speech focused first and most on "violence in the streets and chaos in our communities." Time and again, it was about "terrorism and lawlessness." His promises were focused not around economic ideas for working people, but rather "appointing the best prosecutors and law enforcement," while fighting immigration.

So, I think we can say with confidence that the interviewed rural woman was lying about why she chose to vote for Trump. As a simple matter of FACT, Hillary Clinton spoke far more extensively about working people than Trump did. Trump ran on fear -- fear of Black people running wild in inner cities, fear of Hispanic immigrants, and fear of Muslim terrorists. Fear of the unfamiliar was the core theme of his speech, and that's what won over the rural voters.
Click to expand...

And she lost.
 
Walt said:
Is that what you tell yourself when you cannot get a job? All the business world is lying about job opens, just to mess with you?

I have not seen the empty grocery shelves that the alt right claims, and I will hazard a guess that no one else has. I have seen businesses closed for a day or two because they cannot find staff, and I will hazard a guess that everyone else has too.
Click to expand...

Wrong again, Walter, do you live under a rock?

Photos Show Grocery Store Shelves Are Bare — Here's Why
https://www.businessinsider.com/pho...e-shelves-are-bare-supply-chain-issues-2022-1
Jan 11, 2022 — Shoppers are flocking to social media to share pictures of empty grocery store shelves. Walmart, Trader Joe's, Target, and Giant Foods are ...


Or:https://www.shutterstock.com/search/empty+grocery+shelves
 
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