County board votes to fly the flag

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

So your contention is that African-Americans should be grateful for slavery?

Walter E. Williams contention is, people should try to objectively reason the positives here, rather than focus on the negatives from the past. I agree with him, it is a matter of perception, and you make the choice whether to be resentful or grateful. While slavery was abhorrent and despicable, without it, most blacks would be living in Africa as we speak, wondering where the next meal was coming from. Are you, as a black person, better off here in America, living your current lifestyle, or would you prefer living in a grass hut in Africa?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

1) So, I am genetically predispositioned against committing treason based upon where I was born?

You are arguing that people WERE or WEREN'T Americans, based upon where they were born.
You are arguing that people WERE or WEREN'T racist promoters of slavery, based upon where they were born.
You are also arguing that people WERE or WEREN'T treasonous, based upon where they happened to be born.

I don't understand why you suddenly think this isn't a legitimate argument?

 

[Minister of Truth]

I never was British, and neither were the Colonists who broke away from Britain.

I don't recall reading of the people renouncing their citizenship, do you have some historical documentation of this? People lived in the South and people lived in the North, in 1860, you couldn't just hop in the car and leave if you didn't like where you were. Most people in the South, were not wealthy, and had no choice but to stay where they were, regardless of how they felt about the issue of slavery or the war. In fact, the overwhelming majority of people in the South, did not own slaves or property.

If Russia invaded America and took over our Government, and we became the Soviet Union West.... would we suddenly all become Russians? That seems to be what you dumbasses are trying to argue here. I think you all need to go have one of your little private circle jerks and proclaim each other Kings of Stupid, followed by a roman numeral!

1) In 1775 when the War broke out, the colonists did, in fact, consider themselves Englishmen. They had been arguing for 12 years that their English Constitutional rights were being violated by Parliament, they all unequivocally professed their loyalty to the King, and tea was still considered the beverage of choice for a proper English family and lady/gentleman (although colonials had fallen in love with hard cider, rum, and whiskey, as well).

2) Yes, I would be a Russian by nationality.

At what point in time did people magically transform from what they were to something else? I don't get this! Several southern states seceded from the Union, is that the "magical moment" people changed from being one thing to another? Let's be clear about this... When people say ignorant things like "they chose to leave this nation and form their own" ...that's a historical inaccuracy. There never was a vote to secede, and if there were, I highly doubt it would have been 100% in favor of secession in ANY state. Just as is the case today, and throughout all the history of the world, people held different opinions on the issue of slavery, states rights, the war, secession, etc. We are all individual people, we all have individual motivations, we all have individual thoughts, ideas, and beliefs. There was never a "they" who decided to do anything, the governments and politicos decided to sever the ties with the Federal government, some people agreed with them, and some people didn't. Yet, everything here is being referred to as a collective choice that was made by everyone from the South, when that simply wasn't the case.

The Southerners ceased to be American citizens on the following dates, and became Confederates:

South Carolina - December 20, 1860
Mississippi - January 9, 1861
Florida - January 10, 1861
Alabama - January 11, 1861
Georgia - January 19, 1861
Louisiana - January 26, 1861
Texas - February 1, 1861
Virginia - May 23, 1861
Arkansas - May 6, 1861
Tennessee - June 8, 1861
North Carolina - May 20, 1861

 

[Minister of Truth]

You are arguing that people WERE or WEREN'T Americans, based upon where they were born.
You are arguing that people WERE or WEREN'T racist promoters of slavery, based upon where they were born.
You are also arguing that people WERE or WEREN'T treasonous, based upon where they happened to be born.

I don't understand why you suddenly think this isn't a legitimate argument?

Actually, I am really only arguing points 1 & 3. Everyone else seems to be targeting the racism angle.

 

[Minister of Truth]

I guess my point would be that, ironically, Liberty is opening up the door for someone to declare that Southerners are genetically inferior to everyone else, because they are born to sympathize with treason and anti-Americanism.

 

[Jarod]

Walter E. Williams contention is, people should try to objectively reason the positives here, rather than focus on the negatives from the past. I agree with him, it is a matter of perception, and you make the choice whether to be resentful or grateful. While slavery was abhorrent and despicable, without it, most blacks would be living in Africa as we speak, wondering where the next meal was coming from. Are you, as a black person, better off here in America, living your current lifestyle, or would you prefer living in a grass hut in Africa?

Are you saying that everyone in Africa is wondering where there next meal is coming from?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

So your contention is that African-Americans should be grateful for slavery?

I just answered that. Can't you read, moron?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Actually, I am really only arguing points 1 & 3. Everyone else seems to be targeting the racism angle.

And I am actually pointing out to your dumb ass, that whether you are arguing 1,2,or 3, it's the same argument Liberty presents to you. If we are predisposed to be racist, secessionists, traitors, slave advocates, and NON-American, based upon where we were born, the same applies to you as well. This is one of those things you can't have both ways. You've posed the argument, and it was turned around on you, and you didn't like that... but it was YOUR argument!

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Are you saying that everyone in Africa is wondering where there next meal is coming from?

No, I am asking black people if they would rather be living in Africa or here? Real simple damn question! Of course, if you want to derail the topic and divert off into some "debate" over whether African nations are poor or well off, that's your business, I am confident I could prove that black Americans are much better off as a whole, than black Africans.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

So you contend that African-Americans should be grateful for slavery.

Yes?

Is that what I said when I replied before?

 

[Jarod]

No, I am asking black people if they would rather be living in Africa or here? Real simple damn question! Of course, if you want to derail the topic and divert off into some "debate" over whether African nations are poor or well off, that's your business, I am confident I could prove that black Americans are much better off as a whole, than black Africans.

SO, now you dont want to talk about what you said?

Better off by what measure? You are simply stuck in a Eurocentric measure of what is better.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

SO, now you dont want to talk about what you said?

Better off by what measure? You are simply stuck in a Eurocentric measure of what is better.

I'll let the African-Americans decide for themselves, since my question was posed to them. If you want to be a moron, that's up to you.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I guess my point would be that, ironically, Liberty is opening up the door for someone to declare that Southerners are genetically inferior to everyone else, because they are born to sympathize with treason and anti-Americanism.

Problem is, that was YOUR argument regarding the secession of the states, people were just born in the South and naturally wanted to enslave black people because of that... When the question of secession arose, all Southern people chose to support it because of where they were born. They switched from being Americans to being NON-Americans, based solely on where they were born. And finally, they opposed emancipation as a whole, all Southerners were in 100% agreement, because of where they were born.

But when someone turns your very bigoted viewpoint around on you, and applies it to your own 'predispositions' you balk! Whoa, wait a minute, you can't say I am predisposed because of where I was born! Well, that was YOUR argument! Glad to know you vehemently reject your own point!

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Please state it plainly, unless you're ashamed of your beliefs.

Do you, or do you not contend that African-Americans should be grateful for slavery?

Yes, or no?

I posted an editorial from a black professor, Walter E. Williams. He makes the contention, not me. I merely agreed with his assessment. Are you disagreeing with Williams? You want to state your case for that? I'm all ears!

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Do you, or do you not contend that African-Americans should be grateful for slavery?

Yes, or no?

What the fuck is wrong with you, I've answered your question 5 times now! Are you going to answer MINE???

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Do you, or do you not contend that African-Americans should be grateful for slavery?

Yes, or no?​

yes

 

[Liberty]

It wasn't until after the war that turned around.

One of the interesting effects, people would say "The United States Are"... rather than The United States Is"... in sentences, they were speaking of more than one State, but after the war it became The United States is... a "one nation" thing.

If I understand you correctly, you've confirmed what I said.

 

[Liberty]

1) So, I am genetically predispositioned against committing treason based upon where I was born?
2) Which is worthy of your love - the USC or the UN Charter?

I'm kind of lost on the point you're making Threedee. Could you try again?

 

[Minister of Truth]

Problem is, that was YOUR argument regarding the secession of the states, people were just born in the South and naturally wanted to enslave black people because of that... When the question of secession arose, all Southern people chose to support it because of where they were born. They switched from being Americans to being NON-Americans, based solely on where they were born. And finally, they opposed emancipation as a whole, all Southerners were in 100% agreement, because of where they were born.

But when someone turns your very bigoted viewpoint around on you, and applies it to your own 'predispositions' you balk! Whoa, wait a minute, you can't say I am predisposed because of where I was born! Well, that was YOUR argument! Glad to know you vehemently reject your own point!

I posed the question, in response to Liberty, because I found his question to be both flattering (that I am predisposed to be a better human being based upon where I was born and raised - which plays right into my elitism, as you can very well guess), and ironic. Here you two have been defending the South for its behavior, and Liberty tosses up the other end of the coin that we have been hammering on, which is that there is something very wrong with the people living in the South. He claims I can't understand what its like to be a Southerner, and to support the Confederate history, and I must agree with that point. What the fuck is wrong with a person born into that society, which would make them want to condone an episode of treason, of hatred for one's national constitutional document, and of a region of people demonstrating a complete lack of character?

 

[Liberty]

I guess my point would be that, ironically, Liberty is opening up the door for someone to declare that Southerners are genetically inferior to everyone else, because they are born to sympathize with treason and anti-Americanism.

How did you understand me to mean that?