County board votes to fly the flag

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

The South wrote most eloquently about why it was leaving the Union in its secession documents. Explained perfectly why it had become necessary for them.

Also, the soldiers who died were Confederates, and not Americans, as that title is reserved for citizens of the US. North Americans who die fighting for Canada are Canadians, and North Americans who die fighting for Mexico are Mexicans.

Yes, the South wrote most eloquently about how they had to protect their property, the slaves, from being confiscated by a federal government in violation of their own Constitution. Just as Lincoln spoke eloquently to the black ministers he invited to the White House, to convince them to take their fellow blacks and leave this nation, because blacks could never live among the white people. What you want to do, is view something in the light of today's standards... it was abhorrent, the wording used by the Confederate states in their secession documents, but it wasn't viewed as such in 1861. The issue was not about racial equality, that didn't get resolved in America until 1964. It wasn't even about the institution of slavery, most people didn't like the fact that we enslaved black people, but they also didn't view black people as the same or equal to white people. You want to see 1860 America as much the same as you think things are today, some people were racist and they all lived in the South and wanted to keep black people as slaves, and some people were against slavery and thought it was awful, and they lived up north.... But that is not an accurate picture of America in that time. People in general, were far more concerned with how emancipation might effect the price of cotton, than the moral righteousness of freeing blacks. Even the most ardent abolitionists, did not hold the personal viewpoint, that black humans were equivalent as a species, to white humans. That just wasn't the case in 1860. Now, you can fantasize, or you can be an ignorant buffoon and act like you don't have sense enough to understand what I just explained, but you can't change the fact surrounding how things were in America back then.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Also, the soldiers who died were Confederates, and not Americans, as that title is reserved for citizens of the US. North Americans who die fighting for Canada are Canadians, and North Americans who die fighting for Mexico are Mexicans.

You ignorant fucker, no it was NOT a title 'reserved' for any such thing!
The Confederate States of AMERICA was part of fucking AMERICA you igmo hick!
BEFORE there was a CSA, the states were a part of the United States of AMERICA, and the people there, were citizens of the United States of America! They were as much Americans as anyone else, even AFTER they seceded from the Union. ...MORON!

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

You have some valid points, yet the fact remains that the Confederate flag is viewed negatively by many. You may choose to ignore the views of the victims of racism, and you will reap the consequences.

I don't ignore their views, I reject them as baseless and unfounded. Yes, the Confederate flag is viewed negatively by many, so is President Obama, should we ban him? Just because many view something negatively, doesn't mean we can condemn it as something it's not. And it occurs to me, YOU are the one ignoring the views of those who respect the Confederate flag as a part of their history and tradition. You have that right, even though I may disagree with you, but you don't have the right to fabricate lies and distortions and not be challenged.

For the record, I have never been in support of states incorporating the Confederate battle flag in their state flags. They present the same 'history and tradition' argument, but I have reason to doubt that sincerity, because it wasn't widely practiced until after the CRA of 1964. I believe, in most cases, it was done as a protest, symbolic of defiance, over the passage of CRA. And there really is no need for a present-day state to identify with a symbol of the Confederacy. It's inappropriate, and I don't support it. However, we've gone way past dissatisfaction over state flags, we are currently on the road to banning the Confederate flag entirely, not allowing it to be flown anywhere under any condition, and that just isn't right. Especially when it's being done under the false pretense the flag represents racism and hate. While many racists and hate groups do use the Confederate flag, they also use the American flag.

Whether it's the state legislatures, bitter over passage of CRA and with the intention of using the flag to express defiance, or hate groups hijacking the flag to promote racism and hate, or people just generally offended out of ignorance and misunderstanding of history, it doesn't change the fact that this was a battle flag, and Americans died fighting a war beneath it. Not just any old war, but the bloodiest conflict in our nation's history. I've pointed out many times before, not one single Confederate soldier who fought and died on the battle fields during the war, ever owned a slave. That's a statement of truth, and I challenge anyone to provide evidence to refute it. Over 100k men gave their lives for the cause of defending their homeland, and they fought under that flag. Is it justifiable to deny their honor and respect, on the basis of unfounded viewpoints? I think not.

Whether the symbol offends or not, it remains a part of our history. We are far better off as a people, having the symbol and understanding it, than banishing it and pretending it never existed. That will not end racism, that will not stop racial prejudice, and it won't soothe the hate in the hearts of man. Knowledge is Wisdom, and we are far better off having the Confederate flag than we could ever be otherwise.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I hope you find the consequences of your "heritage" palatable.

Currently only 14 percent of African-Americans vote GOP. Many Latino voters are negative about the Republican Party.

Is the conservative movement's embrace of a symbol that is associated with racism going to help, or hurt your electoral chances?

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with Republicans and Democrats! The Conservative movement, nor the GOP has "embraced" the Confederate flag! And it has been pointed out, there are a LOT of symbols associated with racism, including the American flag!

If Conservatives were to ban the Confederate flag, denounce the CSA as a racist organization, and dishonor the soldiers who died fighting under the flag, would that cause more African-Americans and Latinos to vote Republican? What if we just expunge the entire Civil War from our history books? And while we're at it, we can get rid of all those abhorrent photos of fire hosings and church bombings from the Civil Rights era too! Those are offensive to many, and promote an image of hate.. so we should ban those images along with anything else we are uncomfortable with. This is how you think is best to win the hearts and minds of minority voters?

 

[zappasguitar]

why is lamewood running away from these pictures????

Wow...big surprise there.

All the Yurtard has proved is that the Devil can cite scripture to support his cause just as easily as anyone.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Is the conservative movement's embrace of a symbol that is associated with racism going to help, or hurt your electoral chances?

I want to point out another glaring misconception here. Latinos and blacks vote largely democrat, NOT because the GOP is running around waving the Confederate flag, but because the Democrat party has shamefully pandered to these groups for decades! You claimed that only 14% of blacks vote GOP, but that is up from 9%, an increase of 64% over the previous election cycle. Could it be, more and more blacks are thinking for themselves and realizing their support for the Democrats is not getting them anywhere? Or maybe you believe those 14% are actually RACIST blacks who hate their own people?

 

[Minister of Truth]

Americans are Americans, Confederates are Confederates. Seperation nationalities, separate loyalties, vastly different cultures. The only reason why the Southern troops are referred to as "Americans," is because the US Government maintains to this day that the South was in a state of rebellion, and never constituted a separate country.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

You can argue the point all you like.

Public opinion is what it is.

Since white voters will be a minority soon, you may come to regret your defense of the indefensible.

I think we have a way to go before white voters are in the minority in America, but it shouldn't really matter if you are white or not... facts don't change with skin color. Public opinion is what it is, I agree, but your viewpoint does not reflect the collective whole of public opinion. Some people respect and honor the Confederate flag, because they respect and honor their fallen war dead... what part of that can you not comprehend? In Tokyo, Japan... there is a monument to the fallen soldiers in WWII, complete with the "rising sun" flag... no one is condemning that, or telling them to take it down! Even those who vehemently disagreed with the Japanese and fought to defeat them, are respectful enough of their heritage and history, to allow such displays of honor. You don't see Americans running around trying to tie the 'rising sun' to racism and hate, or foment fear over the perceived symbolism. We accept there was a war, we accept that Japanese men died in that war, and we accept that the Japanese people have the right to honor their dead. Now, if we can tolerate this for Japanese people, why the hell can't we tolerate it for AMERICAN people?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Americans are Americans, Confederates are Confederates. Seperation nationalities, separate loyalties, vastly different cultures. The only reason why the Southern troops are referred to as "Americans," is because the US Government maintains to this day that the South was in a state of rebellion, and never constituted a separate country.

And you are an idiot.

 

[Damocles]

And you are an idiot.

He is accurate. They created a separate nation and tried to maintain it through war. They even elected a President.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

He is accurate. They created a separate nation and tried to maintain it through war. They even elected a President.

I don't need a third-grade history lesson, Dumo... I am well aware of how things went down. At NO time before, during, or after the war, were Southerners known as anything other than AMERICANS! Confederate Americans, but still.... AMERICANS!

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

We do tolerate it.

We also tolerate the KKK robe, the swastika, etc.

Doesn't make it prudent to be seen promoting those symbols, does it?

No, you are being vocally INTOLERANT of it! And there is not a comparison with the KKK or the swastika, that is merely your ignorant perception of something you apparently can't overcome your bigotry to try and understand. And one more time, NO ONE is "promoting" any symbol! YOU are attacking a symbol, and proclaiming it something it is not, and never was intended to be. I am correcting you, and defending the right of those who hold the symbol in reverence to their fallen dead.

 

[Damocles]

I don't need a third-grade history lesson, Dumo... I am well aware of how things went down. At NO time before, during, or after the war, were Southerners known as anything other than AMERICANS! Confederate Americans, but still.... AMERICANS!

I always know when you've lost your point in a fit of stubborn by the use of "Dumo"...

George Washington coined it as citizens of the US of A in his farewell address, by the time of the Civil war and still today the unqualified noun "American" refers to natural citizens of the US in every English speaking nation. When the Confederates created their own nation, they may have used the word in a qualified sense, but unqualified it means only US citizens, not citizens of any other nation. Confederate-Americans were not the same thing as the unqualified noun of "Americans".

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

heywood jatrollme must hate the american flag as well!!!!

will topshit and troll denounce the american flag now?

why is heywood still running away from these pics?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I always know when you've lost your point in a fit of stubborn by the use of "Dumo"...

George Washington coined it as citizens of the US of A in his farewell address, by the time of the Civil war and still today the unqualified noun "American" refers to natural citizens of the US in every English speaking nation. When the Confederates created their own nation, they may have used the word in a qualified sense, but unqualified it means only US citizens, not citizens of any other nation. Confederate-Americans were not the same thing as the unqualified noun of "Americans".

Uh... YES they were! Confederate Americans were US Americans before the war, they were naturalized citizens of the USA, most of them were born as US citizens, and I think the Constitution explicitly states, this qualifies as citizenship. If you want to prop up some bigot's non-argument that Confederates were NON-AMERICANS, that's up to you, but it should be noted, when I refer to you as "Dumo" it's not because I've lost my point, it's because you've said something really dumb, and deserving of the parody on your moniker. If the CSA had been part of Spain before the war, and had never been part of the US, you might have a legitimate point, but that isn't the case, and what you are doing is attempting to apply a falsehood of perception, by claiming Southerners were not Americans. It goes beyond a simple viewpoint of ignorance, it shows a willing effort to marginalize or diminish a specific group of people, on the basis of your prejudice, bigotry and stereotypes. Ironic, isn't it?

 

[Liberty]

The only thing he did that's a bit disappointing is that he kept the South in the Union.

I assume you wouldn't mind if the south left today?

 

[Liberty]

Stating my opinion of the counterproductivity of defending a symbol of the slave-holding South and it's racist heritage constitutes "intolerance"?

So be it.

Maybe you should "correct" these gentlemen, who have co-opted your beloved flag.

The north had slaves, and one, (or more?) didn't free them until well after the conflict.

 

[Damocles]

Uh... YES they were! Confederate Americans were US Americans before the war, they were naturalized citizens of the USA, most of them were born as US citizens, and I think the Constitution explicitly states, this qualifies as citizenship. If you want to prop up some bigot's non-argument that Confederates were NON-AMERICANS, that's up to you, but it should be noted, when I refer to you as "Dumo" it's not because I've lost my point, it's because you've said something really dumb, and deserving of the parody on your moniker. If the CSA had been part of Spain before the war, and had never been part of the US, you might have a legitimate point, but that isn't the case, and what you are doing is attempting to apply a falsehood of perception, by claiming Southerners were not Americans. It goes beyond a simple viewpoint of ignorance, it shows a willing effort to marginalize or diminish a specific group of people, on the basis of your prejudice, bigotry and stereotypes. Ironic, isn't it?

What they were before means almost nothing. Were I an employee of company X, but I quit and moved to company Y, I wouldn't still be an employee of company X no matter how much you wanted me to be.

When they quit our nation and became a nation of their own they chose to be called something different by qualifying the noun. It isn't the same thing even if you squint real hard and really really want it to be. It's a shame that they wanted to be something other than Americans, and that so many people had to die to ensure that they didn't get what they wanted.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

What they were before means almost nothing. Were I an employee of company X, but I quit and moved to company Y, I wouldn't still be an employee of company X no matter how much you wanted me to be.

If you were born in Colorado, you are a Coloradan.. if you moved to Vermont, you would still be a Coloradan. Paul Hogan is from Australia, he is an Australian... even when he comes to America to live with the reporter.... people still call him "the Australian guy" ...he can't change that, it's who he is!

When they quit our nation and became a nation of their own they chose to be called something different by qualifying the noun. It isn't the same thing even if you squint real hard and really really want it to be. It's a shame that they wanted to be something other than Americans, and that so many people had to die to ensure that they didn't get what they wanted.

The individual people who lived in the South, did not "QUIT" the nation, in fact, many of them were never given a voice in the matter of secession, it was done by the political leaders and people in charge. You can "qualify" the fucking noun all you like, it's a fact of the matter, these people were every bit as "American" as you and I... always were, always will be. It's a shame people like you have to propagate an outright lie and distortion of facts, in order to ease your racist bigotry, and find a scapegoat for it.

 

[Damocles]

If you were born in Colorado, you are a Coloradan.. if you moved to Vermont, you would still be a Coloradan. Paul Hogan is from Australia, he is an Australian... even when he comes to America to live with the reporter.... people still call him "the Australian guy" ...he can't change that, it's who he is!



The individual people who lived in the South, did not "QUIT" the nation, in fact, many of them were never given a voice in the matter of secession, it was done by the political leaders and people in charge. You can "qualify" the fucking noun all you like, it's a fact of the matter, these people were every bit as "American" as you and I... always were, always will be. It's a shame people like you have to propagate an outright lie and distortion of facts, in order to ease your racist bigotry, and find a scapegoat for it.

No, I wouldn't be a Coloradoan (correct spelling, pronounced Coloradan) were I to become a citizen of Virginia. I may have been a Coloradoan, but I would not be a Coloradoan. Now Dix is going into what the definition of "is" is...

Citizens of the Confederacy were not Americans, as they chose citizenship in a different nation.