Conservatives: you are losing the GOP

archives said:
Economic nationalism and secure borders are talking points that have been around long before Trump, and will continue long after Trump, all he did was demagogue the terms to serve his purpose
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no they arent "talking points" its real world like REMAIN in Mexico and building a wall.
It's confronting Chinese malign trade - the bilateral was working -but COVID ended it

What is Biden doing? open borders and basing his foreign policy on Human Rights
instead of realpolitik

Biden (the globalist) looks to Europe to partner to stop Chinese hegemony -
the EU just laughs at him and doe their own deals. Biden does everything BUT put the USA needs first.
 
dukkha said:
no they arent "talking points" its real world like REMAIN in Mexico and building a wall.
It's confronting Chinese malign trade - the bilateral was working -but COVID ended it

What is Biden doing? open borders and basing his foreign policy on Human Rights
instead of realpolitik

Biden (the globalist) looks to Europe to partner to stop Chinese hegemony -
the EU just laughs at him and doe their own deals. Biden does everything BUT put the USA needs first.
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Sure they are, how much of that wall was actually built? Not repaired, but actual new construction? And who paid for it as opposed to who was suppose to pay for it? Talking points, in fact, Trump had zero interest in the border until Bannon told him it was an issue he could manipulate

And Biden is confronting China in realistic means, quietly, meaning not running to Fox, did you think the submarine deal that pissed off France was because they could get a better deal? Trump talked the game, got his tough guy image all over Fox, but in reality, did little substantially, did you think the trade embargos really punished China, Americans paid for them. China just went about their business securing individual trade agreements worldwide while extending their influence across the Globe
 
Conservatives seem to think I started this thread as some sort of debate thing.

Everything I stated is fact. You can acknowledge what's going on and try to save the party, or just settle into the rabbit hole.
 
cawacko said:
To me this is one of those "it sounds good in theory" when you say we should have a strong two party system but it's not what you really want. I look at California where we had Arnold and Meg Whitman run for Governor. They weren't Trump Republicans. Yet they were called the same racist/deplorable and every other negative label you would someone who was more in line with Trump. Now part of that is the regular election partisanship we all engage in. Nonetheless they were viewed no differently. So I don't buy this idea that Democrats want more like them.

You'll just end up with what we have in many places in California. Everyone's a Democrat just some are labeled "moderate" and others progressive.
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Not me. I want a strong 2-party system.
 
BartenderElite said:
We need a strong 2-party system in America. We should have even more than that - but we need at least 2.

I'm sure the GOP will win the mid-terms. But the party itself is going down the rabbit hole, rapidly. Trump is still very involved w/ party leadership and plays a significant role in determining the candidates we'll see for the House and Senate. "The Big Lie" has become the main qualifier for any prospective candidate, and even for incumbents to keep their positions.

And we're seeing quite a few reasonable Republicans decide it's no longer for them. These aren't "moderates" or "Rinos" - many are real conservatives, who don't want any part of conspiracies and lies, and just want to get back to good governance and conservative principles. They're being replaced by people on the fringes (trying to be polite here). These are not people who are interested in the country succeeding as it is currently structured.

And we're headed toward the equivalent of fight club in Congress, every day. Grandstanding and trying to get headlines instead of working for the people.

When Liz Cheney can't fist bump the President of the United States without talk radio and twitter erupting in fury, we're in trouble. The GOP needs to find itself again.
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If a party is strong enough to rout the other in the mid terms how is it not a strong party?
 
BartenderElite said:
Conservatives seem to think I started this thread as some sort of debate thing.

Everything I stated is fact. You can acknowledge what's going on and try to save the party, or just settle into the rabbit hole.
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What if you wrote this same type of thread about the Democrats? While there was unity among Democrats to get rid of Trump clearly there are divisions among party members. Understandably, it's always easier (and more fun) to talk about the troubles and challenges of the other party.

I could start a similar thread and talk about Democrats of the past and how they wouldn't fit into the party today etc. etc. Everything I say could be 100% true but do you think a bunch of Democrats are going to want to agree with a Republican about an assessment of their party? Most likely not.
 
cawacko said:
What if you wrote this same type of thread about the Democrats? While there was unity among Democrats to get rid of Trump clearly there are divisions among party members. Understandably, it's always easier (and more fun) to talk about the troubles and challenges of the other party.

I could start a similar thread and talk about Democrats of the past and how they wouldn't fit into the party today etc. etc. Everything I say could be 100% true but do you think a bunch of Democrats are going to want to agree with a Republican about an assessment of their party? Most likely not.
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Democrats definitely have their own problems.

But there problem isn't a reality problem. The Democrats have an issue right now w/ their progressive wing, which has grown more powerful.

It's something they have to figure out. But Republicans have gone off the rails. There is a difference.
 
Hello BartenderElite,

BartenderElite said:
Democrats definitely have their own problems.

But there problem isn't a reality problem. The Democrats have an issue right now w/ their progressive wing, which has grown more powerful.

It's something they have to figure out. But Republicans have gone off the rails. There is a difference.
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Well the difference is that the extreme part of the Democratic Party has vision they don't want to compromise on.

The extreme part of the Republican party has hatred they don't want to compromise on.
 
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cawacko said:
What if you wrote this same type of thread about the Democrats? While there was unity among Democrats to get rid of Trump clearly there are divisions among party members. Understandably, it's always easier (and more fun) to talk about the troubles and challenges of the other party.

I could start a similar thread and talk about Democrats of the past and how they wouldn't fit into the party today etc. etc. Everything I say could be 100% true but do you think a bunch of Democrats are going to want to agree with a Republican about an assessment of their party? Most likely not.
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Good points.

The democrats started fracturing during the Obama years when the radical left started feeling their oats. In fact, the left wing of the democrat party was well to the left of Hillary by 2016 and it would have been interesting to see if she could have United the party had she won. Thankfully, we’ll never know the answer to that but it’s doubtful she could have.

The leftward lurch started under Obama and it was like the election of President Donald J. Trump in 2016 threw gasoline on the fire. Prior to that, the left advocated for things like gay marriage [how sanely benign does that seem now?] now they want to defund the cops, teach gender madness, tear down monuments, cancel speech they don’t agree with and spend tax payer money in ways that would have made any democrats of twenty years ago look like fiscal conservatives.

The democrats split is different than the republican split if for no other reason than there are no ‘radical Republicans’: we have MAGA Republicans and some leftover country club Republicans like Romney. Also, MAGA won our civil war while the left’s is ongoing. There’s nothing ‘radical’ about putting this country’s interest ahead of global interests and/or doing everything possible to get manufacturing jobs back here from China or Mexico. Ronald Reagan might disagree with some of our methods or finer points but no way would he think it was ‘radical’.

It’s just the opposite of radical.
 
BartenderElite said:
We need a strong 2-party system in America. We should have even more than that - but we need at least 2.

I'm sure the GOP will win the mid-terms. But the party itself is going down the rabbit hole, rapidly. Trump is still very involved w/ party leadership and plays a significant role in determining the candidates we'll see for the House and Senate. "The Big Lie" has become the main qualifier for any prospective candidate, and even for incumbents to keep their positions.

And we're seeing quite a few reasonable Republicans decide it's no longer for them. These aren't "moderates" or "Rinos" - many are real conservatives, who don't want any part of conspiracies and lies, and just want to get back to good governance and conservative principles. They're being replaced by people on the fringes (trying to be polite here). These are not people who are interested in the country succeeding as it is currently structured.

And we're headed toward the equivalent of fight club in Congress, every day. Grandstanding and trying to get headlines instead of working for the people.

When Liz Cheney can't fist bump the President of the United States without talk radio and twitter erupting in fury, we're in trouble. The GOP needs to find itself again.
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really wait til the next election and say that
 
BartenderElite said:
We need a strong 2-party system in America. We should have even more than that - but we need at least 2.

I'm sure the GOP will win the mid-terms. But the party itself is going down the rabbit hole, rapidly. Trump is still very involved w/ party leadership and plays a significant role in determining the candidates we'll see for the House and Senate. "The Big Lie" has become the main qualifier for any prospective candidate, and even for incumbents to keep their positions.

And we're seeing quite a few reasonable Republicans decide it's no longer for them. These aren't "moderates" or "Rinos" - many are real conservatives, who don't want any part of conspiracies and lies, and just want to get back to good governance and conservative principles. They're being replaced by people on the fringes (trying to be polite here). These are not people who are interested in the country succeeding as it is currently structured.

And we're headed toward the equivalent of fight club in Congress, every day. Grandstanding and trying to get headlines instead of working for the people.

When Liz Cheney can't fist bump the President of the United States without talk radio and twitter erupting in fury, we're in trouble. The GOP needs to find itself again.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of this except "I'm sure the GOP will win the mid-terms." A lot can happen between now and then so I'll say it's a maybe.
 
Darth Omar said:
The leftward lurch started under Obama and it was like the election of President Donald J. Trump in 2016 threw gasoline on the fire.
Prior to that, the left advocated for things like gay marriage [how sanely benign does that seem now?] now they want to defund the cops, teach gender madness, tear down monuments, cancel speech they don’t agree with and spend tax payer money in ways that would have made any democrats of twenty years ago look like fiscal conservatives.
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dems also want to teach critical race theory, and open the borders to anyone that can walk in

Darth Omar said:
The democrats split is different than the republican split if for no other reason than there are no ‘radical Republicans’: we have MAGA Republicans and some leftover country club Republicans like Romney. Also, MAGA won our civil war while the left’s is ongoing. There’s nothing ‘radical’ about putting this country’s interest ahead of global interests and/or doing everything possible to get manufacturing jobs back here from China or Mexico.
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Biden never ever talks about being competitive in the world ( except for "China is not threat just a competitor")
Dems want to raise corp taxes to levels higher then China -how does that bring investment into the USA?
it doesn't
 
archives said:
They aren’t losing the party, it has already been lost, the Republican Party today is Trump. It has no ideals, no principles, no doctrine, no ideology or policies, it is just Trump, what Trump says and does is the GOP.
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Funny thing is

Trump recently told his rally audience to get vaxed


They booed trump

They only love racism

And being anti vax is now proof you are all the way down on racism


Willing to risk your life for it


Cult thinking
 
BartenderElite said:
The Democrats have an issue right now w/ their progressive wing, which has grown more powerful.
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No.

The Democrats have an issue right now with their smaller, moderate wing that is trying to tank President Biden's domestic agenda.

The CPC is fighting FOR Biden's BBB plan and Infrastructure plan...it's the moderates who are trying to tank both.
 
LV426 said:
No.

The Democrats have an issue right now with their smaller, moderate wing that is trying to tank President Biden's domestic agenda.

The CPC is fighting FOR Biden's BBB plan and Infrastructure plan...it's the moderates who are trying to tank both.
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Correct. Conservatives like Manchin are subverting President Biden's agenda. What he was elected for.
 
LV426 said:
No.

The Democrats have an issue right now with their smaller, moderate wing that is trying to tank President Biden's domestic agenda.

The CPC is fighting FOR Biden's BBB plan and Infrastructure plan...it's the moderates who are trying to tank both.
Click to expand...

Who in your mind are the moderates?

It’s the far right Dems who take cash from corporations that are tanking it
 
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