Common Core...

Every so often, they introduce some moronic new method to teaching math. When my mom was a student in the sixties, the implemented a new technique for long division. When it was revealed to suck, they brought back the standard form, but not before thoroughly confusing everyone in the process.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Here's a fourth grade math question. Let's see how many can get this right.

Ms. Morales has a bag of beads.

She gives Elena five beads.

She gives Damian eight more beads than Elena.

She gives Trish four times as many beads as Damian.

Ms. Morales then has 10 beads left in her bag.

Students are asked how many beads Damian and Trish each received, and to demonstrate how they got their answers.

Also, how many beads were in Ms. Morales’ bag initially?
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The questions are designed for a variety of skill levels. Not everyone is supposed to get every question right, some are meant to distinguish the perfect scores from the A level, or the A level from the B level.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Pretty useless in college and in the real world though. That's what baffles me.

A problem I see with common core is that they are trying to teach students how to do multiple analysis at the same time to resolve a problem. I'm at odds with this approach as this is not how a student will be taught to do critical analysis in college and, as I stated earlier, it will get you fired in the real world for overcomplicating problems.

In critical analysis complex problems are most effeciently solved by breaking them down to simpler fundamental basic concepts and using those basic concept to solve the problem in stages not simultaenously. I see this as distracting studends from understanding fundamental concepts.
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Learning any addition algorithm you have to use paper for is pretty useless in the real world.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That's the approach I was taught in college too. Complex problems are easiest and most efficient to solve if you break them down into their simpler fundamental components.
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They're trying to get away from the rote memorization of algorithms that you used in school. It's not a useful skill in the real world, nor is there anything special about it's ability to teach kids the basic concepts of arithmetic. This pisses luddite parents off to no end, if I had to suffer to it, damn well everyone is going to suffer through it for all eternity.
 
Threedee said:
Every so often, they introduce some moronic new method to teaching math. When my mom was a student in the sixties, the implemented a new technique for long division. When it was revealed to suck, they brought back the standard form, but not before thoroughly confusing everyone in the process.
Click to expand...

This is why national methods suck. It doesn't matter if some educators think Common Core is better than an orgasmatron. Some educators may be wrong. Better to eliminate the federal Dept. of Education and let the states and local governments implement public education.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Here's a fourth grade math question. Let's see how many can get this right.

Ms. Morales has a bag of beads.

She gives Elena five beads.

She gives Damian eight more beads than Elena.

She gives Trish four times as many beads as Damian.

Ms. Morales then has 10 beads left in her bag.

Students are asked how many beads Damian and Trish each received, and to demonstrate how they got their answers.

Also, how many beads were in Ms. Morales’ bag initially?
Click to expand...

5 first student
5+8 =13 second student
13*4 third student
10 teacher

the answers were given in the text
 
One of the most challenging math problems I ever got was in 4th grade on a take-home worksheet. It was a bonus question involving 31 flavours of ice cream and was ridiculously complex. I think we were all mislead by confusing language, as well.
 
leaningright said:
As a teacher grading your common core assignment I would have to give you partial credit on this, and not very much at that. I would give you credit for getting how many Elena, Damian and Trish had correct, but the number Mrs. Morales had initially in the bag would have been 80. But then I would get serious and would have to count off a lot more because your explanation was woefully inadequate. Again, this according to common core, and one of the reasons I am not wholly sold on it. I am pressed for time right now but will talk about the pros and cons of common core from my perspective and according to my opinion later. My son is in the state spelling B tonight so we have to travel but I will address this ASAP. I have been working on the transition from our state standards to common core since 2007 so I have developed a pretty good opinion of it.
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I promised I'd get back to this and here is my take. Remember, I am only talking from a math teacher perspective. With "common core" the first thing that I notice is the powers that be (some democrats and some republicans) are trying to back up the standards and make classes more "rigorous." By this I mean that 7 graders will essentially take a Pre-algebra course now and 8th graders will take an Algebra I course. Not a bad idea on the surface but this will lead to many problems in many schools because they expect EVERY KID to be able to do this and be successful, BUT they make no provisions monetarily or otherwise for the districts (at least in OK) when these kids do not perform up to par. They seem to expect the kids just to move on to the next level no matter what they might have missed and do exceptional work because they (congress) has deemed they be taught using tougher standards.

Also, the gap in just leaping things ahead a full year would more logically be filled by starting these new standards in early elementary and stepping up each year. For example, starting the CC standards in 1st grade one year and then moving to first and second grade, then to first, second and third grade, etc. They might even start at 3rd or 4th grade. I realize that takes time but to expect some of these kids (not all...in fact most can do it) just to magically make the jump over things they might have missed (remember I am talking from a math perspective) is ridiculous...and again, no provision is made for these kids, again, at least in Oklahoma.

Also, with the standards being moved back we are going to have to train more elementary math specialists. I can tell you that most generic elementary teachers are not qualified to teach the standards the powers that be are trying to implement in upper elementary (4th - 6th grades). Many simply do not have the math background to do it. Which brings up another point. We cannot even get enough math teachers to fill current teaching positions that are vacant. What makes them think they can leave pay and incentives at the current levels and be able to fill the positions of elementary math specialists that are sure to be created with the implementation of CC. It ain't happening.

Now to Mott's sample problem. He gives a good algebraic explanation to it in post #18, but I still would have to count off because he didn't use key vocabulary words like "sum" and "difference" and "product" or even "distributive property." According to our standards, correct vocabulary usage in the explanation counts for up to 20% of grading. Now tell me, what is more important on the job; to be able to do a problem or to be able to write a paragraph about how you do a problem? I think Bill O'Reilly might be great at common core because he is one of the greatest bloviators that I know.

I have more but this is all I have time for right now. I haven't even touched on limited English learners and how this it going to dramatically affect their math performance, or at least their grade. This is a group of learners who already become frustrated with Math. Or on the grades that schools will receive as a result of this CC curriculum. I see it, at least in Oklahoma, as a means of closing the doors on schools. Fine and dandy, but how are they going to solve the bussing problems created by this? Some want to make it as a bludgeon with which public schools can be beaten to death thus paving the way for charter schools. I am not willing to go that far but will conclude that I think CC has good points (more rigor, higher standards, etc.) and bad points, obviously. But a bunch of bureaucrats trying to implement these changes have no clue what they are doing and how to go about it.
 
I took a history class in College, the teacher considered specific dates and spellings very important. She would lecture about history and assign readings, but she never taught spelling or even much about dates.

I went into the final with an "F". The final was multi choice and fill in the blank. I crossed it out and wrote was I considered a brilliant essay covering the toics of the quarter long class. Basically early American History, I still have the essay somewhere. I covered all of the topics covered by her multi choice and fill in the blanks.

I did this out of desperation because I knew I would fail if I did not show her how much I knew about the topic. I wrote a note explaining to her that I was terrable at multi choice and spelling but very good at history.

I got a D in the class.


I tell this story because this is how I see these standardized tests taht are intended to measure school and teacher performance. They test the wrong thing, they dont test real knoledge, they test how well you are socialized into the pattern of being able to take tests.
 
Jarod said:
I took a history class in College, the teacher considered specific dates and spellings very important. She would lecture about history and assign readings, but she never taught spelling or even much about dates.

I went into the final with an "F". The final was multi choice and fill in the blank. I crossed it out and wrote was I considered a brilliant essay covering the toics of the quarter long class. Basically early American History, I still have the essay somewhere. I covered all of the topics covered by her multi choice and fill in the blanks.

I did this out of desperation because I knew I would fail if I did not show her how much I knew about the topic. I wrote a note explaining to her that I was terrable at multi choice and spelling but very good at history.

I got a D in the class.


I tell this story because this is how I see these standardized tests taht are intended to measure school and teacher performance. They test the wrong thing, they dont test real knoledge, they test how well you are socialized into the pattern of being able to take tests.
Click to expand...

I showed my final exam to the dean of the College of History and he agreed with me that I likely knew as much about History as the teacher, and about the limitations of the type of testing the College employed, but he said that teaching the numbers of students on the budget he had made it impossable to do anything diffrently. He refused to chance my D to a better grade, and I understood that. I was lucky to get the D under the circumstances.
 
No surprise there, Jarod being a D student. Also no surprise that he got some douche bag professor to placate him.
 
Tyrion the Imp said:
They're trying to get away from the rote memorization of algorithms that you used in school. It's not a useful skill in the real world, nor is there anything special about it's ability to teach kids the basic concepts of arithmetic. This pisses luddite parents off to no end, if I had to suffer to it, damn well everyone is going to suffer through it for all eternity.
Click to expand...
LOL But that's just it. I didn't learn it by rote memoriztion. That's what YOU had to do. I had to apply it to practical problems and then solve them to learn the concept.

On the other hand....hell man...maths are hard enough to learn with out people purpusefully making it hard so as not to confuse some mouth breather.
 
leaningright said:
I promised I'd get back to this and here is my take. Remember, I am only talking from a math teacher perspective. With "common core" the first thing that I notice is the powers that be (some democrats and some republicans) are trying to back up the standards and make classes more "rigorous." By this I mean that 7 graders will essentially take a Pre-algebra course now and 8th graders will take an Algebra I course. Not a bad idea on the surface but this will lead to many problems in many schools because they expect EVERY KID to be able to do this and be successful, BUT they make no provisions monetarily or otherwise for the districts (at least in OK) when these kids do not perform up to par. They seem to expect the kids just to move on to the next level no matter what they might have missed and do exceptional work because they (congress) has deemed they be taught using tougher standards.

Also, the gap in just leaping things ahead a full year would more logically be filled by starting these new standards in early elementary and stepping up each year. For example, starting the CC standards in 1st grade one year and then moving to first and second grade, then to first, second and third grade, etc. They might even start at 3rd or 4th grade. I realize that takes time but to expect some of these kids (not all...in fact most can do it) just to magically make the jump over things they might have missed (remember I am talking from a math perspective) is ridiculous...and again, no provision is made for these kids, again, at least in Oklahoma.

Also, with the standards being moved back we are going to have to train more elementary math specialists. I can tell you that most generic elementary teachers are not qualified to teach the standards the powers that be are trying to implement in upper elementary (4th - 6th grades). Many simply do not have the math background to do it. Which brings up another point. We cannot even get enough math teachers to fill current teaching positions that are vacant. What makes them think they can leave pay and incentives at the current levels and be able to fill the positions of elementary math specialists that are sure to be created with the implementation of CC. It ain't happening.

Now to Mott's sample problem. He gives a good algebraic explanation to it in post #18, but I still would have to count off because he didn't use key vocabulary words like "sum" and "difference" and "product" or even "distributive property." According to our standards, correct vocabulary usage in the explanation counts for up to 20% of grading. Now tell me, what is more important on the job; to be able to do a problem or to be able to write a paragraph about how you do a problem? I think Bill O'Reilly might be great at common core because he is one of the greatest bloviators that I know.

I have more but this is all I have time for right now. I haven't even touched on limited English learners and how this it going to dramatically affect their math performance, or at least their grade. This is a group of learners who already become frustrated with Math. Or on the grades that schools will receive as a result of this CC curriculum. I see it, at least in Oklahoma, as a means of closing the doors on schools. Fine and dandy, but how are they going to solve the bussing problems created by this? Some want to make it as a bludgeon with which public schools can be beaten to death thus paving the way for charter schools. I am not willing to go that far but will conclude that I think CC has good points (more rigor, higher standards, etc.) and bad points, obviously. But a bunch of bureaucrats trying to implement these changes have no clue what they are doing and how to go about it.
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Well that's messed up. I get the right answer and I explain my approach and I get 20% deducted for not using the terms someone wants to hear? That's crazy!!! Not only is that crazy but when kids have to deal with arbitrary rules like this, and they sure appear to be arbitrary to me, they get turned off from education? What the point of working hard and studying if there is built in planned obsolescence (failure) into the system.

The problem I have here, from a pedagogical standpoint is that it confuses the child that arriving to the correct answer is not what is important. That using a desired terminology and a proscribed in stone method are more important than the critical thinking skills needed to solve the problem.
 
Jarod said:
I showed my final exam to the dean of the College of History and he agreed with me that I likely knew as much about History as the teacher, and about the limitations of the type of testing the College employed, but he said that teaching the numbers of students on the budget he had made it impossable to do anything diffrently. He refused to chance my D to a better grade, and I understood that. I was lucky to get the D under the circumstances.
Click to expand...
Oh you were unfortunate. My first year of college I took Biology, Chemistry, algebra 1 & 2, Western Civilization 1 & 2 and English comp 1 & 2. The Western Civilization course was the toughest of them all. Each quarter we had to read 6 books and 1 text book. There were two exams each qtr. A midterm and a final and they were essay exams.

The Prof really busted our asses in those two history classes but to this day he was the best educator/professor I had in my entire academic career. He really lit a fire under my ass to learn more about history. His classes though were a real bear. You had to do a ton of reading and then you had to be able to discuss what you read intelligently.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Oh you were unfortunate. My first year of college I took Biology, Chemistry, algebra 1 & 2, Western Civilization 1 & 2 and English comp 1 & 2. The Western Civilization course was the toughest of them all. Each quarter we had to read 6 books and 1 text book. There were two exams each qtr. A midterm and a final and they were essay exams.

The Prof really busted our asses in those two history classes but to this day he was the best educator/professor I had in my entire academic career. He really lit a fire under my ass to learn more about history. His classes though were a real bear. You had to do a ton of reading and then you had to be able to discuss what you read intelligently.
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The first two years at Auburn were worthless academically. The second two were better, the classes got smaller and the teaching and testing were better suited for my skills.

A huge percent of Auburn students drop out or fail out in the first two years.
 
History is not a tested subject for HS graduation in WA, so teachers are basically tasked with essay writing skills. While this has diminished history, it probably has the one benefit of making lesser teachers less anal about trivia.
 
Jarod said:
I took a history class in College, the teacher considered specific dates and spellings very important. She would lecture about history and assign readings, but she never taught spelling or even much about dates.

I went into the final with an "F". The final was multi choice and fill in the blank. I crossed it out and wrote was I considered a brilliant essay covering the toics of the quarter long class. Basically early American History, I still have the essay somewhere. I covered all of the topics covered by her multi choice and fill in the blanks.

I did this out of desperation because I knew I would fail if I did not show her how much I knew about the topic. I wrote a note explaining to her that I was terrable at multi choice and spelling but very good at history.

I got a D in the class.


I tell this story because this is how I see these standardized tests taht are intended to measure school and teacher performance. They test the wrong thing, they dont test real knoledge, they test how well you are socialized into the pattern of being able to take tests.
Click to expand...

Poor baby. Why is it not surprising you don't think the rules apply to you?
 
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