Common Core...
- Thread starter Jarod
- Start date
cawacko
Well-known member
Bumping this in case leaningright happens to be checking out the site. I've followed two really good discussions of this issue on Facebook though I'd admittedly still somewhat confused by it. But I saw teachers that were for and against and parents for and against. I also got the sense there wasn't necessarily a right/left partisan divide either.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
I think common core frustrates a lot of students, parents and teachers alike. I was reading a common core exam question that was a simple subtraction problem. Instead of using the standard "borrow from" approach to simplify the problem and to solve it quickly and correctly they wanted to students to use a very arcane, awkward multi-step number line technique that was IMHO really asinine. I have 23 credit hours in college math (2 x algebra, 1 x calculus, 2 x statistics and 1 x management science with one of the statistics and the management science class being graduate level math courses.) and I could not solve the problem using their numberline approach. I gave up after about 15 steps and 15 minutes. The math problem was something like 453-281. Using the number line approach I could not determine the correct answer in 15 minuts. Using the standard "borrow from" approach I learned in third grade I solved the problem in 5 seconds.
I have also read some science and history questions from common core exams that were using some bizzaro alternate reality approach that grossly over complicated even simple concepts. I was like...WTF. I mean in the real world one is rewarded for simplifying complex problems and you get fired for complicating problems. So to me, it seems a significant part of common core is missing the forest because of the trees. Normally whenever I see something like that the evil doer is usually a graduate level academic with too much authority and/or influence.
In other words...I'm completely baffled by common corp and don't understand it's utility, if any.
So I'd like to hear feedback from LR too on the topic.
I have also read some science and history questions from common core exams that were using some bizzaro alternate reality approach that grossly over complicated even simple concepts. I was like...WTF. I mean in the real world one is rewarded for simplifying complex problems and you get fired for complicating problems. So to me, it seems a significant part of common core is missing the forest because of the trees. Normally whenever I see something like that the evil doer is usually a graduate level academic with too much authority and/or influence.
In other words...I'm completely baffled by common corp and don't understand it's utility, if any.
So I'd like to hear feedback from LR too on the topic.
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My son does the number line stuff in his homework, he understands it better than I do. They system works for him, but maybe because I learned a different way, its a very awkward way to get the answer from my perspective.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Here's a common core 8th grade english question. Let's see how many can get this right.
http://www.nola.com/education/index.ssf/2014/03/common_core_quiz_question_no_4.html
http://www.nola.com/education/index.ssf/2014/03/common_core_quiz_question_no_4.html
cawacko
Well-known member
That might be the first test question I've ever gotten right in my life.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Here's a fourth grade math question. Let's see how many can get this right.
Ms. Morales has a bag of beads.
She gives Elena five beads.
She gives Damian eight more beads than Elena.
She gives Trish four times as many beads as Damian.
Ms. Morales then has 10 beads left in her bag.
Students are asked how many beads Damian and Trish each received, and to demonstrate how they got their answers.
Also, how many beads were in Ms. Morales’ bag initially?
Ms. Morales has a bag of beads.
She gives Elena five beads.
She gives Damian eight more beads than Elena.
She gives Trish four times as many beads as Damian.
Ms. Morales then has 10 beads left in her bag.
Students are asked how many beads Damian and Trish each received, and to demonstrate how they got their answers.
Also, how many beads were in Ms. Morales’ bag initially?
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
What's your answer?
cawacko
Well-known member
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Interesting. Lets see what others think the correct answer is.
cawacko
Well-known member
They have a link after the question that gives you the answer.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Pretty useless in college and in the real world though. That's what baffles me.
A problem I see with common core is that they are trying to teach students how to do multiple analysis at the same time to resolve a problem. I'm at odds with this approach as this is not how a student will be taught to do critical analysis in college and, as I stated earlier, it will get you fired in the real world for overcomplicating problems.
In critical analysis complex problems are most effeciently solved by breaking them down to simpler fundamental basic concepts and using those basic concept to solve the problem in stages not simultaenously. I see this as distracting studends from understanding fundamental concepts.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Did you try the math problem?
cawacko
Well-known member
I'm sure others have heard this too but I can't say how many times at work I've heard someone say the old adage KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid; but it's so true. There's a real skill for people able to break down complex subjects and issues into ways for most to understand them.
cawacko
Well-known member
I didn't see that one. I'll give it a shot.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
That's the approach I was taught in college too. Complex problems are easiest and most efficient to solve if you break them down into their simpler fundamental components.
cawacko
Well-known member
Elena has 5 beads, Damian has 13, Trish has 52 (4*13)
52+ 10 remaining beads equals 62 in the bag total.
Please tell me I got that right. lol
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Sorry. Wrong Answer
The correct answer is 80. Here's how I solved it.
Mrs. Moralis initial beads = Mi = X
Mrs. Moralis final beads = Mf = 10 beads
Elena = E = 5 beads
Damian = E + 8
Trish = 4(E+8)
Therefore;
Mi = (E + (E+8) + 4(E + 8) + Mf
Mi = (5 + (5+8) + 4(5+8) + 10)
Mi = (5 + 13 + 52 + 10)
Mi = 80
Now I ask you...is this an age appropriate math question for a 4th grader?
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As a teacher grading your common core assignment I would have to give you partial credit on this, and not very much at that. I would give you credit for getting how many Elena, Damian and Trish had correct, but the number Mrs. Morales had initially in the bag would have been 80. But then I would get serious and would have to count off a lot more because your explanation was woefully inadequate. Again, this according to common core, and one of the reasons I am not wholly sold on it. I am pressed for time right now but will talk about the pros and cons of common core from my perspective and according to my opinion later. My son is in the state spelling B tonight so we have to travel but I will address this ASAP. I have been working on the transition from our state standards to common core since 2007 so I have developed a pretty good opinion of it.
cawacko
Well-known member
Holy sh*t, I really did miss that didn't I. Guess you have to add the other two kids beads as well. Oopps! Probably should have paid a little more attention. That's embarrassing.
Ok, if I were really taking the test I would have given a more detailed answer but how much more detailed do you need to go?
Good luck to your son and I would like to hear your thoughts on this.