Climate change discussion

[cancel2 2022]

The AMO is a product of NOAA you dumbass. I'm literally citing the science you say you believe.
https://climatedataguide.ucar.edu/climate-data/atlantic-multi-decadal-oscillation-amo

I just don't get you fools. You obviously have no idea what the science even is. LOL

I don't trust anything that emanates from NASA GISS, Gavin Schmidt is a major alarmist. It's perhaps appropriate that their offices are above the restaurant used in Seinfeld, the comedy about nothing!

Maybe it's time to remind people of the 2012 letter signed by 49 ex-NASA scientists about the political stance being taken by the agency on climate change.

49 Former NASA Scientists Send A Letter Disputing Climate Change

Some prominent voices at NASA are fed up with the agency’s activist stance toward climate change.The following letter asking the agency to move away from climate models and to limit its stance to what can be empirically proven, was sent by 49 former NASA scientists and astronauts.
The letter criticises the Goddard Institute For Space Studies especially, where director Jim Hansen and climatologist Gavin Schmidt have been outspoken advocates for action.

The press release with attached letter is below.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Contact: Blanquita Cullum 703-307-9510 bqview at mac.com

Joint letter to NASA Administrator blasts agency’s policy of ignoring empirical evidence

HOUSTON, TX – April 10, 2012.

49 former NASA scientists and astronauts sent a letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolden last week admonishing the agency for it’s role in advocating a high degree of certainty that man-made CO2 is a major cause of climate change while neglecting empirical evidence that calls the theory into question.

The group, which includes seven Apollo astronauts and two former directors of NASA’s Johnson Space centre in Houston, are dismayed over the failure of NASA, and specifically the Goddard Institute For Space Studies (GISS), to make an objective assessment of all available scientific data on climate change. They charge that NASA is relying too heavily on complex climate models that have proven scientifically inadequate in predicting climate only one or two decades in advance.

H. Leighton Steward, chairman of the non-profit Plants Need CO2, noted that many of the former NASA scientists harbored doubts about the significance of the C02-climate change theory and have concerns over NASA’s advocacy on the issue. While making presentations in late 2011 to many of the signatories of the letter, Steward realised that the NASA scientists should make their concerns known to NASA and the GISS.

“These American heroes – the astronauts that took to space and the scientists and engineers that put them there – are simply stating their concern over NASA’s extreme advocacy for an unproven theory,” said Leighton Steward. “There’s a concern that if it turns out that CO2 is not a major cause of climate change, NASA will have put the reputation of NASA, NASA’s current and former employees, and even the very reputation of science itself at risk of public ridicule and distrust.”

Select excerpts from the letter:

“The unbridled advocacy of CO2 being the major cause of climate change is unbecoming of NASA’s history of making an objective assessment of all available scientific data prior to making decisions or public statements.”
“We believe the claims by NASA and GISS, that man-made carbon dioxide is having a catastrophic impact on global climate change are not substantiated.”
“We request that NASA refrain from including unproven and unsupported remarks in its future releases and websites on this subject.”

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/NASA-SCIENTISTS-DISPUTE-CLIMATE-CHANGE-2012-4

 

[moon]

I don't trust anything that emanates from NASA GISS, Gavin Schmidt is a major alarmist.

What the world needs is millions of ' climate alarmists '. The more there are the better chance we stand of surviving the ecocidal crimes of self-serving capitalists- whose defense of their environmental destruction , with corresponding climatic change- is dependent upon deceiving us into thinking that the evident disruption is ' normal ' and for us all to get back to doing the ' normal ' shit that makes them richer.

 

[Into the Night]

I fully understand the difference between fossil fuels (a much used buzz word) and hydrocarbons (a word that liberals don't understand). so I used the term that is understood by most to cover oil, gas, and coal. your nit picking adds nothing.

It is not nitpicking. The whole argument from the Church of Green is that we are running out of oil, natural gas, and coal, because they came from dinosaurs (or something) and took millions of years to form. They are wrong. It is time to stop using this buzzword. NONE of these fuels come from fossils or are fossils. Personally, I see no need to group hydrocarbon fuels with carbon fuels or any other way. Each type of fuel has it's advantages and disadvantages. Oil and natural gas are renewable sources of energy. Coal we don't know, but there seems to be a lot of it. These three fuels have a high BTU. They are therefore much cheaper than wind or solar, joule for joule.

 

[moon]

Loquacious trollshit.

 

[Into the Night]

There's a link below in the next post

Science is not a Holy Link.

Google AMO GMST multivariate analysis to understand it for yourself.

Science is not Google.

I've tried to explain it many times before and it's pointless if you aren't willing to accept the science

You have explained nothing yet. Void argument fallacy.

QRD: Trade winds blow heated surface water where it piles up over time and eventually releases the built up heat into the atmosphere. It's roughly a 60 year cycle

Hope that helps

I guess you're not familiar with the westward trade currents across both the Atlantic and Pacific oceans, nor the equatorial counter current that runs between them, which flows eastward.
I guess you're not familiar with the way the trade currents move north and south a little bit as normal variance, and sometimes pinch off the equatorial counter current, leaving warmer waters on the west side of the ocean; or the way the equatorial counter current can open up more than usual, leaving warmer waters on the east side of the oceans. This pattern varies EVERY YEAR. There is no '60 year cycle'. It is random.

The position of these currents are monitored by hundreds of buoys scattered along the length. That's why we can predict a La Nina or an El Nino or a neutral event a few months before it has an effect on weather. This year happened to be a La Nina year, where warm water collected on the west side of the Pacific ocean. La Nina years often set up a wintertime Utah high that is pretty persistent, leaving the West warmer and wetter, and the East with more snow and freezing temperatures all the way down to Florida. The Seattle area sits on the edge of the previous pattern in the jet stream, which can sometimes dip a bit south and leave us with a heavy snowfall in such years, or almost none at all in others (like this year). It does tend to build up a heavy snowpack in the mountains during those winters. Hurricane seasons are usually active in such years, since the air aloft is much colder than usual.

El Nino years (where the warmer waters are in the east Pacific), tend to cause a split jet stream, carrying a lot of moisture across the lower half of the States. This is when the SOTC gets it's worst floods, the southern deserts bloom, and usually a lighter than normal hurricane season, since this pattern cuts the tops of the storms before they get going (although a few big one can survive it). For the Seattle area, that's when we get dry years, often a late summer, followed by a very cold but dry winter. If snow falls, if usually sticks around awhile. The northern jet stream runs rather straight and true, but can dip south more often, bringing cold air in from the north.

The surface of the Earth is generally warmer than the atmosphere all the time. That includes the oceans. The surface generally heats the atmosphere normally. This heating is by conduction, convection, and radiance.

NONE of this is science. It is simply observation. Observation is subject to the problems of phenomenology. It is not part of science.

Science is nothing more than a set of falsifiable theories. No more. No less.

 

[Into the Night]

Are you kids old enough to remember El Nino and La Nina? That's the PDO (Pacific Decadal Oscillation)

It is often called the PDO, but it has no regular frequency. It is not an oscillator. it is random.

 

[Into the Night]

Yes, it is. What does that have to do with the overall rising temperature due to greenhouse gases?

It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth. We don't have anywhere near enough thermometers to even begin a statistical summary of this type. No gas or vapor is capable of warming the Earth. You cannot create energy out of nothing. See the 1st law of thermodynamics. You cannot trap heat. You cannot trap thermal energy. There is always heat. See the 2nd law of thermodynamics. You cannot trap light. See the Stefan-Boltzmann law.

NASA has a lot of information about both if you are interested in learning about it.

NASA is quoting random numbers as data. They are a government agency with an agenda to support the Church of Global Warming. It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth. NASA is also ignoring the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law.

Meanwhile; the good news is that Global Warming saves lives.

What global warming? Define it.

Less Americans die in summer than in winter for what should be obvious reasons.
For those for whom it is less obvious, there's this; ...deleted Holy Links...

Cutting and pasting someone else's argument and using as your own weakens your argument. However, I tend to agree, to a point.

The human body is better equipped to handle too high an environmental temperature than one that is too cold. Further, wet and cold is particularly dangerous since water is so good at sucking your thermal energy right out of you, which must be replaced. Activity is somewhat reduced in winter, and driving conditions on the roads can often be treacherous. Walking in some places can even be treacherous. We do have coats and blankets to help, but that requires more energy from us to maintain our own body temperature...at a time when food tends to be more scarce or limited. People are cooped up more, providing ideal conditions for viruses to spread.

Warmer temperatures also tend to have greater activity. Accident rates tend to go up in summer because of it. Accidents from lawn care, ladders and equipment failure, while swimming or playing, etc. Road conditions are far better, but hailstorms, tornadoes, hurricanes, dust storms, and wildfire is also more prevalent. People are out more, reducing the chances of a virus, and the increased UV light destroys more viruses.

In many ways, it's a toss up. I would tend to think that warmer temperatures tend to be better on our health overall though.

 

[Into the Night]

NASA is a much more reliable source than a fucking moron who thinks a civil war will start any day now and that Trump will become president.

NASA is an invalid source. Science is not a government agency.

As far as a civil war is concerned, the Democrats are already doing that. They do not recognize the Constitution of the United States nor any State constitution. They are currently converting the federal government into an oligarchy to implement their fascism. I call it the SODC now.
The States of America are each currently deciding whether to join the SODC or not. So far, Texas has gone so far as to put that vote of secession to the people, since it requires changing the Texas State constitution to do it. Other States are also considering this course of action.

The Democrats have created a monster they can no longer control. Antifa and BLM are even attacking Democrats now. This funding and support of these violent factions by Democrats over the past year is civil war.

And it will get worse. The SODC will not let the States secede quietly. The States considering this course of action know this, and are preparing their own defense. The national militia is split. Moral is very low among the men right now. The general staff in the SODC support the Democrats, but the rank and file generally do not. The army, navy, air force, marines, and others are literally at odds with themselves. If ordered to attack their own people, you will see them turn and support the Constitution of the United States and the people and the States, not any general or Biden.

You say we are talking about a civil war starting any day now. In many ways, it's already started.

It is NOT to restore Trump as President. It is to restore a republic as the form of government.

 

[Into the Night]

The AMO is a product of NOAA you dumbass. I'm literally citing the science you say you believe.
https://climatedataguide.ucar.edu/climate-data/atlantic-multi-decadal-oscillation-amo

I just don't get you fools. You obviously have no idea what the science even is. LOL

This is not science. You have no idea what science even is.

Science is a set of falsifiable theories. No more. No less.

Science is not observations, manufactured numbers, graphs, web sites, books, magazines, degree or license, government agency, university, study, academy, society, scientist, or scientists. It isn't even people at all.
It does not use consensus. There is no voting bloc. There is no 'elite'. There is just the theories themselves. They must be falsifiable. That means they must have a null hypothesis possible, a test must available for that null hypothesis, practical to conduct, it must be specific, and produce a specific result. As long as a theory withstands such tests, it is automatically part of the body of science. It will remain so until it is falsified.

No theory is ever proven True. Science does not use supporting evidence. Only religions do that.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

NASA is an invalid source. Science is not a government agency.

As far as a civil war is concerned, the Democrats are already doing that. They do not recognize the Constitution of the United States nor any State constitution. They are currently converting the federal government into an oligarchy to implement their fascism. I call it the SODC now.
The States of America are each currently deciding whether to join the SODC or not. So far, Texas has gone so far as to put that vote of secession to the people, since it requires changing the Texas State constitution to do it. Other States are also considering this course of action.

The Democrats have created a monster they can no longer control. Antifa and BLM are even attacking Democrats now. This funding and support of these violent factions by Democrats over the past year is civil war.

And it will get worse. The SODC will not let the States secede quietly. The States considering this course of action know this, and are preparing their own defense. The national militia is split. Moral is very low among the men right now. The general staff in the SODC support the Democrats, but the rank and file generally do not. The army, navy, air force, marines, and others are literally at odds with themselves. If ordered to attack their own people, you will see them turn and support the Constitution of the United States and the people and the States, not any general or Biden.

You say we are talking about a civil war starting any day now. In many ways, it's already started.

It is NOT to restore Trump as President. It is to restore a republic as the form of government.

It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth. We don't have anywhere near enough thermometers to even begin a statistical summary of this type. No gas or vapor is capable of warming the Earth. You cannot create energy out of nothing. See the 1st law of thermodynamics. You cannot trap heat. You cannot trap thermal energy. There is always heat. See the 2nd law of thermodynamics. You cannot trap light. See the Stefan-Boltzmann law.

NASA is quoting random numbers as data. They are a government agency with an agenda to support the Church of Global Warming. It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth. NASA is also ignoring the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law.

What global warming? Define it.

Cutting and pasting someone else's argument and using as your own weakens your argument. However, I tend to agree, to a point.

The human body is better equipped to handle too high an environmental temperature than one that is too cold. Further, wet and cold is particularly dangerous since water is so good at sucking your thermal energy right out of you, which must be replaced. Activity is somewhat reduced in winter, and driving conditions on the roads can often be treacherous. Walking in some places can even be treacherous. We do have coats and blankets to help, but that requires more energy from us to maintain our own body temperature...at a time when food tends to be more scarce or limited. People are cooped up more, providing ideal conditions for viruses to spread.

Warmer temperatures also tend to have greater activity. Accident rates tend to go up in summer because of it. Accidents from lawn care, ladders and equipment failure, while swimming or playing, etc. Road conditions are far better, but hailstorms, tornadoes, hurricanes, dust storms, and wildfire is also more prevalent. People are out more, reducing the chances of a virus, and the increased UV light destroys more viruses.

In many ways, it's a toss up. I would tend to think that warmer temperatures tend to be better on our health overall though.

Delusional bullshittery.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The AMO is a product of NOAA you dumbass. I'm literally citing the science you say you believe.
https://climatedataguide.ucar.edu/climate-data/atlantic-multi-decadal-oscillation-amo

I just don't get you fools. You obviously have no idea what the science even is. LOL

Nice dodge on the NASA link. Your ignorance of science is now complete. LOL

From your link: https://climatedataguide.ucar.edu/climate-data

 

[Into the Night]

I don't trust anything that emanates from NASA GISS, Gavin Schmidt is a major alarmist. It's perhaps appropriate that their offices are above the restaurant used in Seinfeld, the comedy about nothing!

Maybe it's time to remind people of the 2012 letter signed by 49 ex-NASA scientists about the political stance being taken by the agency on climate change.

49 Former NASA Scientists Send A Letter Disputing Climate Change

Some prominent voices at NASA are fed up with the agency’s activist stance toward climate change.The following letter asking the agency to move away from climate models and to limit its stance to what can be empirically proven, was sent by 49 former NASA scientists and astronauts.
The letter criticises the Goddard Institute For Space Studies especially, where director Jim Hansen and climatologist Gavin Schmidt have been outspoken advocates for action.

The press release with attached letter is below.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Contact: Blanquita Cullum 703-307-9510 bqview at mac.com

Joint letter to NASA Administrator blasts agency’s policy of ignoring empirical evidence

HOUSTON, TX – April 10, 2012.

49 former NASA scientists and astronauts sent a letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolden last week admonishing the agency for it’s role in advocating a high degree of certainty that man-made CO2 is a major cause of climate change while neglecting empirical evidence that calls the theory into question.

The group, which includes seven Apollo astronauts and two former directors of NASA’s Johnson Space centre in Houston, are dismayed over the failure of NASA, and specifically the Goddard Institute For Space Studies (GISS), to make an objective assessment of all available scientific data on climate change. They charge that NASA is relying too heavily on complex climate models that have proven scientifically inadequate in predicting climate only one or two decades in advance.

H. Leighton Steward, chairman of the non-profit Plants Need CO2, noted that many of the former NASA scientists harbored doubts about the significance of the C02-climate change theory and have concerns over NASA’s advocacy on the issue. While making presentations in late 2011 to many of the signatories of the letter, Steward realised that the NASA scientists should make their concerns known to NASA and the GISS.

“These American heroes – the astronauts that took to space and the scientists and engineers that put them there – are simply stating their concern over NASA’s extreme advocacy for an unproven theory,” said Leighton Steward. “There’s a concern that if it turns out that CO2 is not a major cause of climate change, NASA will have put the reputation of NASA, NASA’s current and former employees, and even the very reputation of science itself at risk of public ridicule and distrust.”

Select excerpts from the letter:

“The unbridled advocacy of CO2 being the major cause of climate change is unbecoming of NASA’s history of making an objective assessment of all available scientific data prior to making decisions or public statements.”
“We believe the claims by NASA and GISS, that man-made carbon dioxide is having a catastrophic impact on global climate change are not substantiated.”
“We request that NASA refrain from including unproven and unsupported remarks in its future releases and websites on this subject.”

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/NASA-SCIENTISTS-DISPUTE-CLIMATE-CHANGE-2012-4

Very wise to not trust NASA nor GISS.

No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the planet. You cannot create energy out nothing. NASA says you can, violating the 1st law of thermodynamics.
No gas or vapor can trap thermal energy. There is always heat. NASA says you can trap thermal energy, and use it to warm the warmer surface using a colder gas, violating the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
You cannot trap light. NASA says you can, ignoring the Stefan-Boltzmann law. All materials emit light according to their temperature. There is no material at zero deg K.

NASA also denies statistical mathematics, claiming that some 7500 thermometers scattered across the globe in cities and towns (they must be serviced) being averaged together is a statistical summary. It isn't.
Statistical math REQUIRES the use of raw data only. It cannot be cooked. It must be unbiased. Location grouping is significant. Thermometers must be uniformly spaced. Time is significant, since storms move, points on Earth have a day and a night, ocean currents shift around some, etc. Both of these factors MUST be eliminated from the raw data.

The raw data MUST be published and available.
The declaration and justification of the variance MUST be done. This is not from the data. This the possible variance of the data, not the data itself. From this, the margin of error is calculated. The margin of error value MUST accompany the summary, or the average is completely meaningless. All work must be shown.
Statistical math is not capable of prediction, even though the government often uses it like some kind of Holy Entrail to predict the future. The reason it is not capable of prediction is because of statistical math's use of random numbers. One summary may differ from another EVEN ON THE SAME DATA.
Selection MUST be by randN, the same type of random number as used in a deck of cards.
Normalization MUST be by paired randR, the same type of random number as two or more dice.

For temperature, I use the variance of 20 deg F per mile. This variance is often observed, across storm fronts, nearer or further away from mountain compression wave effects, even the difference between asphalt and grass or a forest right next to it. Using this variance, the margin of error value for 7500 thermometers uniformly spread across the surface of Earth (essentially leaving ONE thermometer measuring an area the size of Virginia) is larger than the difference between the high and lowest temperatures ever recorded on Earth. In other words, NASA is guessing. This is the mathematical reason why.

Guessing or making up numbers like this yet another type of random number, known as a randU, or psuedo-random number. It is a number though up in someone's head, or an algorithm thought up in someones head that doesn't make use of randR sources.

You see people using randU numbers all the time. "Everyone says....", is a randU. "Most scientists agree...", is a randU. NASA making up numbers for 'global temperature data' is also a randU. They are not using statistical math to do it. Why? They are a government agency. Like any government agency, they have no profit as a success metric. Their only success metric is to justify their own existence. If that means creating a 'crisis' for them to 'solve' (even they never do, as that would nullify their existence), that's what they do. NASA is not different. NOAA is no different. BOTH of these agencies have been directed by Democrats to support agendas that push the Church of Global Warming as a state religion.

This is not a problem for Democrats, of course, because they don't recognize the Constitution of the United States (which contains the 1st amendment, prohibiting the federal government from having a state religion). They don't recognize any State constitution either. Democrats rule by dictat. They WANT an oligarchy. They WANT fascism. They spend their time accusing others of what they are.

 

[Into the Night]

What the world needs is millions of ' climate alarmists '. The more there are the better chance we stand of surviving the ecocidal crimes of self-serving capitalists- whose defense of their environmental destruction , with corresponding climatic change- is dependent upon deceiving us into thinking that the evident disruption is ' normal ' and for us all to get back to doing the ' normal ' shit that makes them richer.

Gloom and doom mongering. Buzzword fallacies. Define 'ecocidal crime'. Define 'environmental destruction'. Define 'climate change'.

I know you won't. These are just chants from the Church of Global Warming, an inherently fundamentalist religion.

 

[Into the Night]

Delusional bullshittery.

Argument of the stone fallacy. Math is not a delusion. Science is not a delusion.

 

[Into the Night]

Nice dodge on the NASA link. Your ignorance of science is now complete. LOL

...deleted Holy Link...

Science is not a government agency.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The election fraud by the Democrats is stealing the election. The election never took place in several States because of it. Election fraud is not an election.
Science is not politics. It is not a debate. It does not use consensus. It is not data. It is not a government agency, university, academy, society, or any degree or license. It is not a paper, book, brochure, or web site. It is not scientists or any one scientist. It is not people at all.

Science is a set of falsifiable theories. No more. No less. It is completely atheistic. It doesn't care whether there is a god, gods, or nothing. It simply doesn't go there.
Science is an open functional system. It has no proofs. No theory is ever proven True. Any theory of science can be falsified at any time, regardless of the length of its existence. Theories of science are incapable of prediction. They explain. They do not predict. To gain the power of prediction, a theory must be transcribed into a closed functional system, such as mathematics or logic. The resulting equation is called a 'law'.

Pissed as a newt. They think rotgut is science down there, see!

INT/IBDa/gfm is a paranoid schizophrenic.....unmedicated, of course.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Science is not a government agency.

The only nutjob saying it is is you, dumbass.

Global warming saves live. Australian chicks looooove American cock.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Gloom and doom mongering. Buzzword fallacies. Define 'ecocidal crime'. Define 'environmental destruction'. Define 'climate change'.

I know you won't. These are just chants from the Church of Global Warming, an inherently fundamentalist religion.

https://www.psycom.net/paranoid-schizophrenia#medicationAnosognosia is the lack of insight and an unawareness of the presence of a disorder. Someone with schizophrenia may not recognize that their behavior, hallucinations, or delusions are unusual or unfounded. This can cause a person to stop taking antipsychotic medication, stop participating in therapy, or both, which can result in a relapse into active phase psychosis.

 

[moon]

INT/IBDa/gfm is a paranoid schizophrenic.....unmedicated, of course.

All part of the JPP nut soup.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

All part of the JPP nut soup.

....and a very stout soup it is!