California’s economic situation!

cawacko said:
Politicians promise workers higher returns than can be achieved and you want to blame the markets?
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Sigh...

Politicians aren't selling pension investments...the investment funds are. If Investment Fund X is telling the pension managers that investing with them will result in X% of growth, but then X% of growth never happens, you are saying it's on the politicians (?) and not the investment funds for over-promising? But how could that be when it was the Investment Fund that made the over-promise to the pension manager? How is it the politician's fault (and subsequently, how is it a teacher's fault) if an investment fund was peddling a gallon of snake-oil?

Just curious...do you know if CALPERS had invested in funds in the mid-2000's that were also trading in all those risky subprimes and derivatives? And was CALPERS unwittingly investing in funds that held those securities? Because that's exactly what happened to almost all public pensions during the economic collapse. Investment funds were peddling miraculous growth in certain sectors and markets, and pitched those on to unsuspecting pension funds who were denied the true risk of the products in which they were investing.

So why should public employees bear the burden of consequences for that? Shouldn't the investment funds? Shouldn't the banks? They're the ones who made these promises, after all. Promises we now know were made in bad faith because they were concealing the true risk of their product.
 
Legion said:
I know nothing of the sort. "Hispanic" isn't a race, is it? The Census Bureau defines race as a person’s self-identification with one or more social groups. An individual can report as White, Black or African American, Asian, American Indian and Alaska Native, Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander, or some other race.
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Don't play obtuse. It demeans you and your argument.


Legion said:
How do you know that Sirthinksalot isn't Latino?
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How do we know he's even an American and not a Russian troll pretending to be an American? We don't. We have to make assumptions.
 
Legion said:
It seems you don't know, beyond citing an estimate which may or many not be anywhere near accurate.
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How about you stop being lazy and click on the link, then you can judge its accuracy yourself instead of relying on others to do your work for you?


Legion said:
Are all employers of illegals white Christians?
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Probably. Evangelical Christians are the worst humanity has to offer.
 
LV426 said:
Don't play obtuse. It demeans you and your argument.




How do we know he's even an American and not a Russian troll pretending to be an American? We don't. We have to make assumptions.
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Stinks a lot is native. His English is too poor to be foreign
 
LV426 said:
Sigh...

Politicians aren't selling pension investments...the investment funds are. If Investment Fund X is telling the pension managers that investing with them will result in X% of growth, but then X% of growth never happens, you are saying it's on the politicians (?) and not the investment funds for over-promising? But how could that be when it was the Investment Fund that made the over-promise to the pension manager? How is it the politician's fault (and subsequently, how is it a teacher's fault) if an investment fund was peddling a gallon of snake-oil?

Just curious...do you know if CALPERS had invested in funds in the mid-2000's that were also trading in all those risky subprimes and derivatives? And was CALPERS unwittingly investing in funds that held those securities? Because that's exactly what happened to almost all public pensions during the economic collapse. Investment funds were peddling miraculous growth in certain sectors and markets, and pitched those on to unsuspecting pension funds who were denied the true risk of the products in which they were investing.

So why should public employees bear the burden of consequences for that?
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Why should public employees be held responsible for the decisions made by groups who represent them? If that's the case get rid of 'Pers and 'Sters and let workers all invest on their own.

And politicians very much are involved in the amount of pension workers get. Go back and look what Gray Davis and the legislature did in 1999 at the peak of the dot com bubble for an example and how it's affecting us today
 
Sirthinksalot said:
Always the answer with libtards. Don't reform the system, just throw more money at it.
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Reform it how? You guys don't have any ideas other than "charter schools" which are proven to produce no better outcomes than public schools. You complain about education spending, then complain about class size, then complain that the teachers are bad. So how are you supposed to attract talent to education when you're cutting pay and benefits? Seems self-defeating...almost intentionally so.


Sirthinksalot said:
Thanks for that bit of wisdom Captain Obvious.
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Well, considering who you are and what you said, I wasn't sure if you realized your argument was circular. I can't take anything for granted with you people.



Sirthinksalot said:
Wow, your reasoning here is very... unimpressive. Here's a few more solutions. Make teachers kick in more money for their health insurance and pensions, just like everyone else does. Or better yet, do away with the defined benefit pensions for all future teachers hired. Defined benefit pensions for public employees need to be done away with as they were in the private sector long ago.
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So come be a teacher; the pay is shit, the benefits are shit, you gotta pay for your own supplies and health care, and Conservatives will blame you for anything. What a great job opportunity.

BTW - 401k's haven't really improved upon the returns from traditional pensions.


Sirthinksalot said:
And another thing. If education is so important, why can't some money currently being spent on other things be re-prioritized to go to education? Why do taxes need to be raised even more in one of the highest taxed states?
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You answered your own question with you first.
 
LV426 said:
How about you stop being lazy and click on the link, then you can judge its accuracy yourself instead of relying on others to do your work for you?
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Don't the authors admit the figure you cited is an approximation based on supposition and conjecture which they extrapolated to arrive at an estimate?

LV426 said:
Probably.
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"Probably"? You stated it as a fact.

LV426 said:
Evangelical Christians are the worst humanity has to offer.
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So you're a religiously-intolerant bigot?

Are you guno trolling under a new nic?
 
cawacko said:
Local school districts can choose to pay teachers more if they so desire.
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They probably desire to do that now. So why can't they? Because there's not enough funding.

And thus, we've come full-circle in this circular argument of yours.
 
LV426 said:
How about you stop being lazy and click on the link, then you can judge its accuracy yourself instead of relying on others to do your work for you?




Probably. Evangelical Christians are the worst humanity has to offer.
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Well not really on a personal level, but they simply baffle me. I think a good humanities, history literature and art edumscation should be mandatory. We have Philistine technocrats with electrical engineering degrees who truly think the world is 4000 or 6000 years old. It’s just astonishing. They’ve never read Tolstoy but watch Fox News and worry about bitcoin. They care about fiat currency but do t have any idea about legal tender. And they will probably be the first people to help you in a pinch. Just baffling.
 
cawacko said:
Prop 13 is a separate argument and I have no problem discussing it. But you refuse to acknowledge that copied that tweet without giving credit
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That's a legal issue for the forum owner if the original was copyrighted, isn't it?
 
Mcslobber said:
Well not really on a personal level, but they simply baffle me. I think a good humanities, history literature and art edumscation should be mandatory. We have Philistine technocrats with electrical engineering degrees who truly think the world is 4000 or 6000 years old. It’s just astonishing. They’ve never read Tolstoy but watch Fox News and worry about bitcoin. They care about fiat currency but do t have any idea about legal tender. And they will probably be the first people to help you in a pinch. Just baffling.
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Lot of assumptions and generalizations in that screed.
 
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