California’s economic situation!

Are unfunded pension liabilities included? ^_^

How much is unfunded and over what period of time?

Since pensions are paid by tax revenues, and tax revenues are notoriously hard to predict 1 year out, let alone 50, how can you say there's an unfunded pension liability and know what you're talking about? And what period are you using as the baseline revenues to determine that liability? Because if you're using 2009-2011, when revenues were low thanks to the recession, then you're misrepresenting what those liabilities are. Obviously, higher revenues means less of a liability, correct? So the liability picture changes if you're using revenues during the recession as your baseline, instead of using the most recent revenues from a strong economy, which CA currently has.
 
They have the highest income tax rate in the country. It is why they shit a brick when they thought they were going to lose the SALT deduction which allows California to suck money out of the federal treasury off book.

Thing is, removing that SALT deduction isn't going to affect liberals who rent in Los Angeles, it's going to affect Conservatives in Orange County who own homes. So you're cutting off your nose to spite your face by removing the SALT deductions, and pretty much guaranteeing that Democrats will win the 7 or 8 House districts Clinton won that are currently represented by Republicans, most of whom voted to raise their constituents' taxes by removing that deduction.

What a dumb move. Almost as dumb as picking a fight with a football team whose fans threw snowballs at Santa Claus.
 
Is Brown cleaning up a mess by signing tax increases into law that don't even begin to cover the enormous unfunded state pension liabilities?

What period of time do those liabilities cover? Do you even know? Also, determining the liability is directly related to revenues, since pensions are paid by tax revenues. So if you use 2009-2011 as your baseline revenues, when the economy was in recession, then that makes the liability picture much worse than if you're using 2017 revenues as your baseline, which paints a much different and better picture.

Or are you just repeating propaganda you gleaned from some source at some point, but don't really know the details?


Tell me, which Republican is responsible for those, and the housing crisis?

The Republicans who pushed Prop 13 are the ones responsible specifically for the housing crisis in CA.

So how did they do that? Prop 13 capped property taxes so low (at 1%) that it made building more housing a money-losing proposition for most local governments (because the taxes from the housing don't cover the services required by its residents). That led local governments to back-fill their budgets with regressive sales taxes, court and jail fees that trap people in debt cycles after a brush with the law, and building permit fees that make new construction more expensive. It also led local governments to over-prioritize zoning for commercial malls and box stores and auto dealerships (because sales tax revenue nom nom nom), and corporate office parks (because they produce property taxes w/out much increase in demand for services). Also, because prop 13 freezes tax rates until a property transfers OR adds new construction, it's created weird incentives against a) expanding existing residential buildings, and b) people with more house than they need cashing out to downsize. But the MOST IMPORTANT thing is that the majority of the tax savings haven't gone to homeowners. That's because corporations, unlike people, don't die. They don't move and change homes. So they don't get re-assessed. Many will keep paying 70s-era taxes basically forever.
 
Not understanding the question. These are future liabilities. Is that what you're asking?

Future liabilities how far out? It can't be indefinite, so how far out? This is what I mean when I say that you're just repeating propaganda because it sounds good to you.

Are they liabilities out to 2020? To 2030? To 2050? To 2100? What year?
 
Future liabilities how far out? It can't be indefinite, so how far out? This is what I mean when I say that you're just repeating propaganda because it sounds good to you.

Are they liabilities out to 2020? To 2030? To 2050? To 2100? What year?

Not sure how this is considered propaganda. Are you implying the debt doesn't exist and it has no effect on our current financial condition?


https://www.google.com/amp/amp.sacbee.com/opinion/california-forum/article209303974.html


https://calmatters.org/articles/california-retirement-pension-debt-explainer/
 
Here's a manifestation of the pension problem We used to spend $0.09 of every K-12 dollar on benefits for ex employees. Today it is $0.19. That's almost 20% of school funding that doesn't come close to a classroom. LA public schools are looking at classroom sizes with ratios of 50-1.

Then we should increase funding for education to hire and train more teachers.

Here's the thing; to reduce class size, you have to hire teachers. And if you hire teachers, you're also committing to a pension for those teachers you hire.

So your argument is kind of circular; you say the pension problem is exacerbating larger class sizes, the solution to which is to hire more teachers. But doing so would result in more pensions for those teachers you hired. So you only have two solutions; educate fewer children or raise taxes to better fund education.
 
And they still spend money in the economy, contributing the GDP. Not sure why you'd want to prevent that, other than being a racist.

Where to begin?

Are you saying that Sirthinksalot is racist? What color is Sirthinksalot's skin? Are illegals all of a different race?

How much money do illegals spend in the economy, and how much do they contribute to GDP?

Deploring illegality is a duty of every citizen, isn't it?

Since you said that Trump isn't your president, why are you concerned with American issues?
 
What period of time do those liabilities cover? Do you even know? Also, determining the liability is directly related to revenues, since pensions are paid by tax revenues. So if you use 2009-2011 as your baseline revenues, when the economy was in recession, then that makes the liability picture much worse than if you're using 2017 revenues as your baseline, which paints a much different and better picture.

Or are you just repeating propaganda you gleaned from some source at some point, but don't really know the details?




The Republicans who pushed Prop 13 are the ones responsible specifically for the housing crisis in CA.

So how did they do that? Prop 13 capped property taxes so low (at 1%) that it made building more housing a money-losing proposition for most local governments (because the taxes from the housing don't cover the services required by its residents). That led local governments to back-fill their budgets with regressive sales taxes, court and jail fees that trap people in debt cycles after a brush with the law, and building permit fees that make new construction more expensive. It also led local governments to over-prioritize zoning for commercial malls and box stores and auto dealerships (because sales tax revenue nom nom nom), and corporate office parks (because they produce property taxes w/out much increase in demand for services). Also, because prop 13 freezes tax rates until a property transfers OR adds new construction, it's created weird incentives against a) expanding existing residential buildings, and b) people with more house than they need cashing out to downsize. But the MOST IMPORTANT thing is that the majority of the tax savings haven't gone to homeowners. That's because corporations, unlike people, don't die. They don't move and change homes. So they don't get re-assessed. Many will keep paying 70s-era taxes basically forever.

Not giving credit to the guy who wrote that on Twitter?
 
And they still spend money in the economy, contributing the GDP. Not sure why you'd want to prevent that, other than being a racist.

Do they contribute more than they take in government handouts? Wanting to prevent illegal immigrants from coming into your country makes someone racist? You should tell that to the people of every other country in the world, especially Mexico.
 
Socialism brings in money, and that's what you are talking about. The real issue is financial growth, not government rape. lol

Did you notice the relevant text buried in the article that Brad cited?

"Buoyed by tax increases passed under his administration".

He didn't see fit to include it in his OP, did he?
 
Then we should increase funding for education to hire and train more teachers.

Here's the thing; to reduce class size, you have to hire teachers. And if you hire teachers, you're also committing to a pension for those teachers you hire.

So your argument is kind of circular; you say the pension problem is exacerbating larger class sizes, the solution to which is to hire more teachers. But doing so would result in more pensions for those teachers you hired. So you only have two solutions; educate fewer children or raise taxes to better fund education.

Not circular at all as we have the option to cut benefits and pensions. As we all know money doesn't grow on trees
 
Not sure how this is considered propaganda. Are you implying the debt doesn't exist and it has no effect on our current financial condition

What I am contending is that you are using propaganda from people with a vested interest in attacking public sector employees because ooga booga Conservatism. That propaganda paints a picture using ink from 2009-2011 that shows a massive unfunded liability gap due to declined revenues. What you posted just now was that CALPers isn't seeing the returns on its investments in the market to reduce whatever liability (still undefined) might exist.

So this is less an indictment of the pension system and more of an indictment of the markets that aren't delivering on their promises of growth; promises made in order to attract pension fund investment.

Now why should public employees bear the consequences of the market not delivering on its promises? Shouldn't it be the other way around?!?!?!?!?!
 
Are you saying that Sirthinksalot is racist? What color is Sirthinksalot's skin? Are illegals all of a different race?

At this point, we all know "illegal" is a stand-in dogwhistle for "Hispanic". Don't play obtuse.


How much money do illegals spend in the economy, and how much do they contribute to GDP?

Depends who you ask. According to the Harvard Kennedy School, as much as $11B.



Deploring illegality is a duty of every citizen, isn't it?

Not if you're a Conservative, apparently, and the illegality is perpetrated by white Christians and their enablers in the business community.


Since you said that Trump isn't your president, why are you concerned with American issues?

Because I'm an American.
 
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