Alec Baldwin to be charged with involuntary manslaughter in 'Rust' movie set shooting

anonymoose said:
I'll bet it did.
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OK, I will take that bet. I think I have just won that bet, but we will look at the steps to be sure. Look especially after step 3 and tell me what changed.

1) Gutierrez-Reed messed up on the set of The Old Way and nearly killed Cage.
2) Cage walked off the set.
3) Cage realized he would be sued massively for breach of contract, and returned to the set.
4) Gutierrez-Reed continued to mess up on the set of The Old Way.
5) Donowho (the director of The Old Way) highly recommended Gutierrez-Reed to Souza(the director of Rust), saying she was worth the extra money.
6) Gutierrez-Reed messed up on the set of Rust, and nothing was done about it.
7) Gutierrez-Reed finally messed up so badly someone died.

At least Cage tried, which is more than I can say about most of the other people involved... But he accomplished nothing. The only thing that got Gutierrez-Reed fired was when someone actually died.

There is no formal process to become an armorer, and insurance companies trust an armorer above everyone else when it comes to safety, which makes them very difficult to fire. I think the bigger problem here was so much success made people think this was easy.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
It is his responsibility to check that what he's told is true and accurate about a deadly weapon before he uses it. You never rely on anyone else to tell you the condition of a firearm you are going to hold and use. If I get handed a firearm, I immediately check to see if it's loaded, and put it in a safe condition. I don't point it at anyone regardless. It's obvious you have little or no experience with firearms.
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True! But does Baldwin have a legal responsibility under the law to check the gun himself! I doubt if he does legally.
 
Apollyon 2023 said:
True! But does Baldwin have a legal responsibility under the law to check the gun himself! I doubt if he does legally.
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Well, obviously the legal authorities think so or they wouldn't be charging him with involuntary manslaughter... Maybe he can give acting classes in prison...?
 
Phantasmal said:
They have to prove he was reckless, and if he was told the weapon was not hot, then it’s going to be hard to prove that.
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So if a father is in his yard and his son a cop and weapons expert hands him a gun and states it's unloaded NOT HOT...He starts playing quick draw and it goes off killing your kid playing in the yard down the street


You would say well it was accidental so no charges on the father
 
volsrock said:
So if a father is in his yard and his son a cop and weapons expert hands him a gun and states it's unloaded NOT HOT...He starts playing quick draw and it goes off killing your kid playing in the yard down the street


You would say well it was accidental so no charges on the father
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Apples and oranges
 
Apollyon 2023 said:
He pulled the trigger, that legally makes him part of a involuntary homicide!
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Involuntary homicide is not a crime. There must be some sort of voluntary action to make it a murder or manslaughter. For instance, if you start your car, not knowing that someone is sleeping under your car, and you kill the person sleeping under the car, you definitely committed a homicide by starting the car, but did not commit a criminal act. That would be an involuntary homicide.

Exact laws differ from state to state, so someone is going to respond it is different in such and such state, and they will be right... BUT, the general frame work is:
Murder is when you intended to kill the victim with full culpability.
Manslaughter is when you did not intend to kill or had some other form of extremely diminished culpability, but you did intend to harm the victim, or do a clear criminal act.
Voluntary manslaughter is when you intended to hurt the victim, but accidentally went too far and killed the victim.
Involuntary manslaughter is when you did not intend to hurt the victim, but led to the death through a criminal act.
Constructive [voluntary or involuntary] manslaughter is when you actually acted.
Criminally negligent [voluntary or involuntary] is when failed to act, and that was the crime.

AND FINALLY:
Involuntary homicide is when you caused a death, like starting your car, but had no criminal intent, like not knowing someone was sleeping under your car.
 
Walt said:
Involuntary homicide is not a crime. There must be some sort of voluntary action to make it a murder or manslaughter. For instance, if you start your car, not knowing that someone is sleeping under your car, and you kill the person sleeping under the car, you definitely committed a homicide by starting the car, but did not commit a criminal act. That would be an involuntary homicide.

Exact laws differ from state to state, so someone is going to respond it is different in such and such state, and they will be right... BUT, the general frame work is:
Murder is when you intended to kill the victim with full culpability.
Manslaughter is when you did not intend to kill or had some other form of extremely diminished culpability, but you did intend to harm the victim, or do a clear criminal act.
Voluntary manslaughter is when you intended to hurt the victim, but accidentally went too far and killed the victim.
Involuntary manslaughter is when you did not intend to hurt the victim, but led to the death through a criminal act.
Constructive [voluntary or involuntary] manslaughter is when you actually acted.
Criminally negligent [voluntary or involuntary] is when failed to act, and that was the crime.

AND FINALLY:
Involuntary homicide is when you caused a death, like starting your car, but had no criminal intent, like not knowing someone was sleeping under your car.
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Starting a car would not kill someone and NO REASON AT ALL for someone to think it would, pointing and pulling the trigger on a gun will ....person pulling that trigger should know that
 
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