We need to nominate, then elect Herman Cain!

Jarod said:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...QvwUoAQ&q=subservient&spell=1&biw=480&bih=268

Funny, to be subservient is to submit to ones rule...

http://i.word.com/idictionary/subservient

Webster says tis to be submissive?
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Also, "to submit" does not mean the same as "to be submissive." Each year, I "submit" my taxes to the government, I am NOT "submissive" to my government. The words mean different things and have completely different connotation. Of course, it's like you being "retarded" ...sometimes, that just means you are goofy and stupid, in YOUR case, it means you suffer from profound mental retardation.
 
Dixie said:
Also, "to submit" does not mean the same as "to be submissive." Each year, I "submit" my taxes to the government, I am NOT "submissive" to my government. The words mean different things and have completely different connotation. Of course, it's like you being "retarded" ...sometimes, that just means you are goofy and stupid, in YOUR case, it means you suffer from profound mental retardation.
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Are you really that dense? To submit an object is one thing, to submit oneself is another. You are pretending otherwise and that is idiotic.

Please show us where I compared the bible to Sharia?

So is it your opinion that the man is to be the head of a household and a woman is not?
 
Damo, do you really belive that the Bible does not say women should submit to her husband?
 
Jarod said:
Damo, do you really belive that the Bible does not say women should submit to her husband?
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Damo never said that, stop trying to manipulate the conversation. The King James version of The Bible was quoted, and it does say a wife should submit to her husband, just as it says a husband should love and defend his wife as if she were God. What it DOESN'T say, is ANYTHING about women being "subservient" to men. That is YOUR interpretation, which is erroneous. Now you can "groan" at this post if you like, I really don't care, and you can continue acting like a complete and total jackass and pretend you have advanced the debate, but the record shall speak for itself, you have been PWNED. This is when it would be best for you to shut the fuck up and move on, and hope that no one remembers this thread in the future. But you're too stupid and retarded for that, you want to continue trying to manipulate the conversation, which is rapidly becoming a conversation you're having with yourself.
 
Dixie said:
Damo never said that, stop trying to manipulate the conversation. The King James version of The Bible was quoted, and it does say a wife should submit to her husband, just as it says a husband should love and defend his wife as if she were God. What it DOESN'T say, is ANYTHING about women being "subservient" to men. That is YOUR interpretation, which is erroneous. Now you can "groan" at this post if you like, I really don't care, and you can continue acting like a complete and total jackass and pretend you have advanced the debate, but the record shall speak for itself, you have been PWNED. This is when it would be best for you to shut the fuck up and move on, and hope that no one remembers this thread in the future. But you're too stupid and retarded for that, you want to continue trying to manipulate the conversation, which is rapidly becoming a conversation you're having with yourself.
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Dix, you are silly.

I am asking Damocles a question... let him answer.
 
Jarod said:
Dix, you are silly.

I am asking Damocles a question... let him answer.
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And I object to your line of questioning, Damo never stated what you are asking him about. You are trying to dodge the fact that you just got totally PWNED six ways from Sunday, and in order to distract from that, you've chosen to ask a misleading and dishonest question. I've called you on it, now you want to claim protocol. Pft... as if!
 
Your silly objection is overruled. Dix you tried to twist the meaning of submit as it relates to human interaction... you got owned regardless of if you see it or not.

I did not say he said it, I asked if he belived it....
 
Jarod said:
Damo, do you really belive that the Bible does not say women should submit to her husband?
Click to expand...

Do you believe that the Bible was written in English? If not, can you tell me which Greek word was used, and what it literally meant?

With that, and the full context, you can ascertain what the meaning of the verse is. Make sure to fully quote the context and get the best translation possible. Remember also, that we are told that there is no differentiation between male and female (context again, this is differentiation in hierarchy) with those who are of the family of Christ.

I even quoted the scripture earlier...

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

And just for you, the King James Version:

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
 
We can also read in 1 Peter 3:1-5, 7 that you are equal in God's sight and that mistreating or abusing your wife will ensure your prayers will not be heard...

Don't be concerned about the outward beauty ... You should be known for the beauty that comes from within, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is so precious to God ... In the same way, you husbands must give honor to your wives. Treat her with understanding as you live together. She may be weaker than you are, but she is your equal partner in God's gift of new life. If you don't treat her as you should, your prayers will not be heard.
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Oddly enough the Bible says that it is more moral not to marry at all... but because so many want to have sex it is better that each man have one wife, and each woman one husband than to live in sexual immorality.
 
Jarod said:
So show me the origional?
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http://www.biblestudytools.com/interlinear-bible/passage.aspx?q=ephesians+5&t=kjv

21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
uJpotassovmenoi {V-PPP-NPM} ajllhvloi? {C-DPM} ejn {PREP} fovbw/ {N-DSM} Xristou'. {N-GSM}
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
AiJ {T-NPF} gunai'ke? {N-NPF} toi'? {T-DPM} ijdivoi? {A-DPM} ajndravsin {N-DPM} wJ? {ADV} tw'/ {T-DSM} kurivw/, {N-DSM}

....
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
OiJ {T-NPM} a~ndre?, {N-NPM} ajgapa'te {V-PAM-2P} ta;? {T-APF} gunai'ka?, {N-APF} kaqw;? {ADV} kai; {CONJ} oJ {T-NSM} Xristo;? {N-NSM} hjgavphsen {V-AAI-3S} th;n {T-ASF} ejkklhsivan {N-ASF} kai; {CONJ} eJauto;n {F-3ASM} parevdwken {V-AAI-3S} uJpe;r {PREP} aujth'?, {P-GSF}

key words....from verse 21 verb; to submit.......from verse 22 transitory adverb....."do this by". feminine version......from verse 25 transitory adverb "do this by", male version......

given that, is it your position a wife is required to submit but a husband isn't?.....

what I am talking about is what Churches teach.
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lol, no it isn't.......
 
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Jarod said:
We can all be one in Christ and the women can still be told to be submissive to her husband. Sadly that is what the current version of the bible says. I personally disagree with the teaching, but that is the teaching.
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you are not uncomfortable with the teaching, you're uncomfortable with what you are pretending it teaches.....
 
Damocles said:
Do you believe that the Bible was written in English? If not, can you tell me which Greek word was used, and what it literally meant?

With that, and the full context, you can ascertain what the meaning of the verse is. Make sure to fully quote the context and get the best translation possible. Remember also, that we are told that there is no differentiation between male and female (context again, this is differentiation in hierarchy) with those who are of the family of Christ.

I even quoted the scripture earlier...

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

And just for you, the King James Version:

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Click to expand...

I know most of the bible was written about 90 years after Christ's death from memory, all of it was written in Greek and has been translated many many times my men who had various agenda's, that is why I belive one must read it with a grain of salt and try to devine a "spirit" of the bible and to be a "true" Christian must also compare its teachings with what we find to be natural law devined from our personal experience with God and nature. Parts of the "Bible" have been lost and intentionally left out, while new parts have been added. There are many parts that teach things that are inconsistant with each other.

What I am interested in is not what I personally belive, I happen to agree that the Teachings of Christ are that men and women are equal and should be treated as such and that the rights and responsabilities of a couple in a family are not to be devided up based on gender.

My belifes are considered fairly RADICAL by most churches and I belive that the teachings of many Churches are very harmfull to families.

I have not studied Islam or the Koran like I have the Bible but I happen to know many Muslims who belive about the Koran like I do about the Bible and that it needs to be intereperated differently than many Mosques do. I am sure there is room for interperation in Sharia just as there is in the Bible. So to say Sharia is inherantly evil and should be banished in the United States is WRONG.
 
Damocles said:
We can also read in 1 Peter 3:1-5, 7 that you are equal in God's sight and that mistreating or abusing your wife will ensure your prayers will not be heard...



Oddly enough the Bible says that it is more moral not to marry at all... but because so many want to have sex it is better that each man have one wife, and each woman one husband than to live in sexual immorality.
Click to expand...

I never said the Bible does not say men must treat wives with respect, but that is not the same as submitting. It is clear to me that in the current writting of the Bible, a husband's responsabilities are different than a wife's.
 
Jarod said:
I know most of the bible was written about 90 years after Christ's death from memory, all of it was written in Greek and has been translated many many times my men who had various agenda's, that is why I belive one must read it with a grain of salt and try to devine a "spirit" of the bible and to be a "true" Christian must also compare its teachings with what we find to be natural law devined from our personal experience with God and nature. Parts of the "Bible" have been lost and intentionally left out, while new parts have been added. There are many parts that teach things that are inconsistant with each other.

What I am interested in is not what I personally belive, I happen to agree that the Teachings of Christ are that men and women are equal and should be treated as such and that the rights and responsabilities of a couple in a family are not to be devided up based on gender.
Click to expand...


So, for three days, you've argued the Bible says women are subservient to men... even though, that isn't what you personally believe, and it isn't what you think Christ teaches? I've never seen someone devote so much time to arguing something they totally didn't believe in. Have you talked to your shrink about this, because I think it's borderline schizophrenic.

My belifes are considered fairly RADICAL by most churches and I belive that the teachings of many Churches are very harmfull to families.
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You can say that again! Radical indeed! There have been about a dozen people, both Christians and non-Christians who understand the Bible, arguing with you over what the Bible says, as you insisted the Bible says something it doesn't. Now, after all these days and the several threads you spawned, we discover that you don't really believe anything you've argued, you are just playing "devils advocate" here.

I have not studied Islam or the Koran like I have the Bible but I happen to know many Muslims who belive about the Koran like I do about the Bible and that it needs to be intereperated differently than many Mosques do. I am sure there is room for interperation in Sharia just as there is in the Bible. So to say Sharia is inherantly evil and should be banished in the United States is WRONG.
Click to expand...

But you made the direct comparison between Islam and Christianity, and how they deal with women. That was the basis for this marathon debate, now we find that you really don't know much about Islam, you are going by the "many Muslims" you happen to know. Tell me... are these "many Muslims" you know, imaginary? Can other people see them, or is it just you?

When it comes to women, Sharia and Islam has no room for interpretation, it is very concise and clear, and is stipulated thousands of times in hundreds of ways, that WOMEN are INFERIOR to MEN! This is why Muslim women wear burkas, keeping their face and body covered in public, and walk three paces behind their husband. This is why Sharia mandates TWO women must testify against a man in a rape case, because a woman's word is HALF the value of a man's. There is no place in western civilization for this kind of inequality, and to suggest it's NOT evil and SHOULD be part of our law, is abhorrent.
 
Dixie said:
So, for three days, you've argued the Bible says women are subservient to men... even though, that isn't what you personally believe, and it isn't what you think Christ teaches? I've never seen someone devote so much time to arguing something they totally didn't believe in. Have you talked to your shrink about this, because I think it's borderline schizophrenic.



You can say that again! Radical indeed! There have been about a dozen people, both Christians and non-Christians who understand the Bible, arguing with you over what the Bible says, as you insisted the Bible says something it doesn't. Now, after all these days and the several threads you spawned, we discover that you don't really believe anything you've argued, you are just playing "devils advocate" here.



But you made the direct comparison between Islam and Christianity, and how they deal with women. That was the basis for this marathon debate, now we find that you really don't know much about Islam, you are going by the "many Muslims" you happen to know. Tell me... are these "many Muslims" you know, imaginary? Can other people see them, or is it just you?

When it comes to women, Sharia and Islam has no room for interpretation, it is very concise and clear, and is stipulated thousands of times in hundreds of ways, that WOMEN are INFERIOR to MEN! This is why Muslim women wear burkas, keeping their face and body covered in public, and walk three paces behind their husband. This is why Sharia mandates TWO women must testify against a man in a rape case, because a woman's word is HALF the value of a man's. There is no place in western civilization for this kind of inequality, and to suggest it's NOT evil and SHOULD be part of our law, is abhorrent.
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1) Where did I make a direct comparison between Islam and Christianity? YOU DISHONORABLE LIAR!
2) The word of God and the Bible are two different things in my opinion. A clear reading of the Bible on this subject and what I know about Jesus are two different things.
3) Your emotional rant has no palce in this forum, nobody ever once said that part of our law should allow for women to be treated unequally to men.
 
Jarod said:
1) Where did I make a direct comparison between Islam and Christianity? YOU DISHONORABLE LIAR!
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Two pages back. IDIOT.

2) The word of God and the Bible are two different things in my opinion.
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Because you are an IDIOT!

A clear reading of the Bible on this subject and what I know about Jesus are two different things.
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You got that right! You don't seem to know much about Jesus or anything else. Meanwhile, a 'clear reading' of the Bible reveals you are a moron of the highest order, and have been thoroughly PWNED in this thread.

3) Your emotional rant has no palce in this forum, nobody ever once said that part of our law should allow for women to be treated unequally to men.
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Well you don't get to decide what has a place in this forum. YOU said that part of our law should allow for women to be treated in accordance with Sharia law, which specifically states women are inferior to men in ALL cases. You don't see anything wrong with that, it doesn't bother you, and you think our freedom and democracy depend on it. That's what you said yesterday. Prior to that, you have argued that Sharia doesn't treat women unfairly, and likened it to the teachings of Christianity, that women should be subservient to men.... that was debunked finally, but you still want to cling to this idea that "many Christians" believe women are subservient to men... that is what ISLAM believes, not what "most Christians" believe!
 
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