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Dixie said:
Look, SF... I know that you REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY want me to have a theological argument with you about Christianity, and I know you REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY TRULY believe I am a Christian who just won't admit it, and you think you can continue trying your best to rope me into a theological debate, and that will be revealed... which would give you great joy and pleasure pointing out. But I am not Christian, and I am not here to debate Christian theology. If you wish to have such a debate, there are several posters here who can oblige. I'm sorry, but I can not argue Christian theology from a first-person perspective as you wish for me to, I feel I couldn't do it justice. So please, if you want to have a theological debate about Christianity, find a Christian theologist and stop trying desperately to cajole me into a debate on the subject.

Now, having said that... let me see if I can explain this to you.... Do you "believe in" Hitler and the Holocaust? If you answer yes, does that mean you "believe in" what Hitler and the Nazis did? Does the fact you believe it happened, mean you believe it was right or acceptable? You quoted verses from Deuteronomy, the Old Testament of The Bible, the old laws of Moses, before Jesus, before the Christian Reformation, before the New Testament. Do I believe this was the teaching of the Old Testament? Yes, and many other people believe that as well, it doesn't mean we believe people should live by the mandates from the Old Testament. Is that a clear enough explanation?
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Tell us ditzie.... when you make comments like

Quote Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
If you don't believe everything that is written in the Bible, how can you state that you believe in the Bible? That doesn't make logical sense. It's akin to saying you believe in the Constitution, but you don't believe everything written in the Constitution! Does that make sense to you? It doesn't to me, it's a contradiction in terms.
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When you state the above..... and I then offer you passages WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE..... and ask if a 'REAL' Christian must believe in them.... WHY IS IT YOU CANNOT RESPOND? YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING THE CLAIM.
 
Alias said:
No statehood for Palestine until they renounce and get rid of all terrorists and recognize the right of Israel to exist.
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Yep, merely eliminate all terrorism and force every Palestinian to recognize the legitimacy of the UN Partition of the Palestine mandate + subsequent conquests (might makes right). That is a totally reasonable threshold.
 
Watermarx said:
Yep, merely eliminate all terrorism and force every Palestinian to recognize the legitimacy of the UN Partition of the Palestine mandate + subsequent conquests (might makes right). That is a totally reasonable threshold.
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The Pals have isolated themselves by aligning themselves with terrorists. Israel has the right and duty to protect their citizens. It's not the hard to understand.
 
Onceler said:
Why are you so terrified to answer the question? Seems pretty simple.

And you stated you were a Christian for many years. Did you convert to something else?
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He's stated he is not a Christian, I think it was a later post. So, he must have.
 
Damocles said:
He's stated he is not a Christian, I think it was a later post. So, he must have.
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I'm curious about the conversion. Maybe it's too personal a question, but he used to preach the gospel quite a bit on the other boards, and even on this thread, he is being fairly dogmatic about Christian beliefs. Except when they're not convenient for him.
 
Disillusioned said:
I'm probably going to get groaned for this, but personally I'm kind of on the palestinian side here, after ww2 and the holocaust(which DID happen guys) we (the west) decided to dump the jews in their promised land, and we didn't think any more about it. The israelis(used here to define those people relocated to present day israel) were fine with it because they got their own country, the west was happy because it got jews out of their countries(ya we were still really anti semetic at the time) and made us feel better. And as for the arabs? Well one patch of sand is just like another and really its not that much.
We decided to dump out the arabs insert the jews and then expected everyone to get along? Seriously guys what kind of legitimacy does Israel have? The we've killed those who've come against us one? Its pretty much the only one I can see, the west should stop playing imperial powers in the middle east(we've stopped everywhere else) and let them get on with their lives, maybe then radical groups wouldn't get such a hold when they rail against the western oppressors.


And now you can flame me
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The entire thing was such just such an incredible disaster. A bunch of white male Christians who had probably never even set foot in the area got it into their head that it'd be rather nice to make a Jewish state. So they partitioned up a rather ridiculous plan that gave the Jews, who were only about 1/3 of the population and owned about 7% of the land, a majority of the territory and all of the good farmland. The Jewish state zigzagged around to make sure that not a single Jew got left in the Arab state, disregarding the fact that this would leave the "Jewish state" 45% Palestinian. The Palestinian state, by comparison, was 99% Palestinian. It was just beaurocratic nonsense by people obviously biased towards one side who had essentially zero knowledge of the place, only an unstated belief that restoring Israel would somehow make Jesus come sooner, along acclamations from Zionists.

The British apparently adopted the strategy of "Meh, this will surely all work itself out!" and up and left, apparently under the impression that people would just hold hands and establish the plan themselves. Arab states were obviously incensed by the ridiculous partition, and declared war almost immediately after the British left (Good job, Britian!) A great deal of Palestinians simply fled for their lives, and the Israeli's went from arab town to town pointing guns in peoples faces, and if they, surprisingly, met any hostility to this sort of behavior, they responded by forcibly removing the entire population to the borders. Then they won the war against the arab states, and, seeing an immense opportunity in the fact that a great deal of undersirable Palestinians were away from home at the present, decided to unilaterally strip all of them of citizenship and property, leaving millions of people stuck at some the border, homeless, penniless, hungry; with everything they had ever known and loved ripped away from them in one fell swoop.

Well, this all went down quite well. I can't see why this whole scenario would rub anyone the wrong way.
 
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Exactly Water.... you would think they would have started to see the problem with such actions when looking back at how the Ottoman empire was broken up and arbitrary country lines were drawn. Cause that turned out well too.
 
Onceler said:
Why are you so terrified to answer the question? Seems pretty simple.

And you stated you were a Christian for many years. Did you convert to something else?
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First of all, I am not "terrified" of anything, and if you notice, I did answer his question. Secondly, I am not Christian, this is a misnomer based on a series of posts between me and maineman from years ago, where he was boasting about being a "better" Christian than everyone else, because of the work he did in the Church. In that thread, I lied about being Christian for the sake of argument. You see, I am not an Atheist, it doesn't bother me to tell someone I am Christian for the sake of an argument, even though I am not really Christian. My family is Christian, and I was raised by Christian parents. I understand Christianity better than other religions, just because of my upbringing, and my own personal faith is spiritual, I respect much of what is in the Bible, and have a general respect for other religious faith.

Now, I don't care if you believe me or not, that's up to you.... but... if I am denying my Christian beliefs, I have committed the worst sin possible for any Christian, forsaking Jesus Christ... I am destined to burn in hell for eternity, if I am a Christian and lying about not being Christian. Take that for what you will, I really don't care. I am a spiritualist, I believe in a universal spiritual force which drives the universe and the dimension which surrounds us. When I refer to "God", that force or energy or karma... whatever you wish to call it, is what I am referencing.
 
Superfreak said:
So, according to you.... a REAL Christian must believe everything the bible teaches except for those passages that YOU wish to avoid. A REAL Christian must believe 'the WORD OF GOD' (as you put it) but only the 'WORD OF GOD' that you believe.

YOU keep making comments about what a REAL Christian must 'believe' and then when I counter with other passages from the Bible you run away screaming how you don't want to get into a theological debate. You are first a coward and second an idiot.
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I don't know how you derive such absolute gibberish from what I post, but I said nothing of the sort. I attempted to explain to you how people can "believe in" the Bible, including the Old Testament, yet not "believe" that we should live by Old Testament laws of Moses. I guess my analogy to Hitler and the Holocaust just went in one ear and out the other, because you hate and revile me so much, you had to pervert what I posted. I don't get you, SF... We're both conservative, we believe in a lot of the same political ideology, but for some reason, the fact that I won't join you in a Christian Bashfest, you get your panties in a wad and feel compelled to insult me. I am sorry you hate Christians so bad, I hope you will some day find solace in your troubled heart.
 
Dixie said:
I don't know how you derive such absolute gibberish from what I post, but I said nothing of the sort. I attempted to explain to you how people can "believe in" the Bible, including the Old Testament, yet not "believe" that we should live by Old Testament laws of Moses. I guess my analogy to Hitler and the Holocaust just went in one ear and out the other, because you hate and revile me so much, you had to pervert what I posted. I don't get you, SF... We're both conservative, we believe in a lot of the same political ideology, but for some reason, the fact that I won't join you in a Christian Bashfest, you get your panties in a wad and feel compelled to insult me. I am sorry you hate Christians so bad, I hope you will some day find solace in your troubled heart.
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Gibberish in, gibberish out.
 
Dixie said:
First of all, I am not "terrified" of anything, and if you notice, I did answer his question.
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No, you ran away from the question every time. Again... YOU stated that "If you don't believe everything that is written in the Bible, how can you state that you believe in the Bible? "

I then asked you if that meant people had to believe those passages I quoted.... you have yet to answer that.

Secondly, I am not Christian, this is a misnomer based on a series of posts between me and maineman from years ago, where he was boasting about being a "better" Christian than everyone else, because of the work he did in the Church. In that thread, I lied about being Christian for the sake of argument. You see, I am not an Atheist, it doesn't bother me to tell someone I am Christian for the sake of an argument, even though I am not really Christian. My family is Christian, and I was raised by Christian parents. I understand Christianity better than other religions, just because of my upbringing, and my own personal faith is spiritual, I respect much of what is in the Bible, and have a general respect for other religious faith.
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Unless that other religious faith is Islamic. Then you mock and ridicule them for doing exactly what other religions have done in the past. Including Christianity.
 
Dixie said:
I don't know how you derive such absolute gibberish from what I post, but I said nothing of the sort. I attempted to explain to you how people can "believe in" the Bible, including the Old Testament, yet not "believe" that we should live by Old Testament laws of Moses. I guess my analogy to Hitler and the Holocaust just went in one ear and out the other, because you hate and revile me so much, you had to pervert what I posted. I don't get you, SF... We're both conservative, we believe in a lot of the same political ideology, but for some reason, the fact that I won't join you in a Christian Bashfest, you get your panties in a wad and feel compelled to insult me. I am sorry you hate Christians so bad, I hope you will some day find solace in your troubled heart.
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1) Do show us where I have bashed Christianity Ditzie.... Stopping you from bashing Islam is not equivalent to my bashing Christians

2) I quoted your EXACT phrase. You then spin off into your nonsense of 'what does believe in mean'. Again.... your EXACT wording....

"If you don't believe everything that is written in the Bible, how can you state that you believe in the Bible? That doesn't make logical sense. It's akin to saying you believe in the Constitution, but you don't believe everything written in the Constitution! Does that make sense to you? It doesn't to me, it's a contradiction in terms. "

3) Your failed analogy with Hitler and the Holocaust was absurd at best.
 
If you don't believe everything that is written in the Bible, how can you state that you believe in the Bible?

When you state the above..... and I then offer you passages WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE..... and ask if a 'REAL' Christian must believe in them.... WHY IS IT YOU CANNOT RESPOND? YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING THE CLAIM.
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My "statement" was a "question" and has nothing to do with religion or theology of Christianity, it is a question of LOGIC!

I DID RESPOND! I explained it to you in detail, with an analogy! You presented passages from the Old Testament, and most Christians understand the OT is not presented as a guide for modern living, but rather, as more of a 'history lesson' within the Scriptures. Christians do not believe they should live by the Old Testament laws of Moses, because Jesus came and died for their sins. The Bible has to be taken as a whole, not parsed out and divvied up into bits and pieces. You have to understand the context, and the purpose of the Old Testament as it relates to the New. Again, I am not a Christian Theologist, and I am wholly inadequate to argue theology with you. I'm merely trying to help you better understand Christianity. Unfortunately, you seem to have peanut butter in your ears, and refuse to even read my posts with an open mind. So be it!
 
Superfreak said:
1) Do show us where I have bashed Christianity Ditzie.... Stopping you from bashing Islam is not equivalent to my bashing Christians

2) I quoted your EXACT phrase. You then spin off into your nonsense of 'what does believe in mean'. Again.... your EXACT wording....

"If you don't believe everything that is written in the Bible, how can you state that you believe in the Bible? That doesn't make logical sense. It's akin to saying you believe in the Constitution, but you don't believe everything written in the Constitution! Does that make sense to you? It doesn't to me, it's a contradiction in terms. "

3) Your failed analogy with Hitler and the Holocaust was absurd at best.
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What doctrines of Islam and Sharia Law do you support?
 
Dixie said:
If you don't believe everything that is written in the Bible, how can you state that you believe in the Bible?

My "statement" was a "question" and has nothing to do with religion or theology of Christianity, it is a question of LOGIC!
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Again... your 'logic' (and I do use that term very loosely with you).... is severely flawed.

I DID RESPOND! I explained it to you in detail, with an analogy!
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Your analogy with Hitler was severely flawed as well. Again, saying "I believe in the Bible" is vastly different than your comment above.

You presented passages from the Old Testament, and most Christians understand the OT is not presented as a guide for modern living, but rather, as more of a 'history lesson' within the Scriptures.
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ROFLMAO.... YOU presented passages from SAME FUCKING BOOK.... DEUTERONOMY... and pretended that justified your absurdity.

Christians do not believe they should live by the Old Testament laws of Moses, because Jesus came and died for their sins. The Bible has to be taken as a whole, not parsed out and divvied up into bits and pieces. You have to understand the context, and the purpose of the Old Testament as it relates to the New. Again, I am not a Christian Theologist, and I am wholly inadequate to argue theology with you. I'm merely trying to help you better understand Christianity. Unfortunately, you seem to have peanut butter in your ears, and refuse to even read my posts with an open mind. So be it!
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I understand what Christians believe you dolt. But that is NOT what YOU were proclaiming. YOU were proclaiming that a REAL Christian must believe ALL of the bible as it is the "WORD OF GOD". It is not. It is an account of what occurred written by many different authors over a period of centuries. It was written by MAN. Just as the Quran was.
 
Alias said:
What doctrines of Islam and Sharia Law do you support?
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I am agnostic, I believe everyone is entitled to their religious freedom. There are components of religions that I respect (and that are common among the mainstream religions) and those within each religion that I disagree with.

My personal opinion is it is people like Ditzie who are so rigid in their personal beliefs that they demean and belittle another religion despite not being able to prove their religion or beliefs are correct are the problem. Which is why I am calling him out on his bullshit... and why I called out Yurt on his.

There is a reason religions are called FAITH and not FACT.
 
Superfreak said:
I am agnostic, I believe everyone is entitled to their religious freedom. There are components of religions that I respect (and that are common among the mainstream religions) and those within each religion that I disagree with.

My personal opinion is it is people like Ditzie who are so rigid in their personal beliefs that they demean and belittle another religion despite not being able to prove their religion or beliefs are correct are the problem. Which is why I am calling him out on his bullshit... and why I called out Yurt on his.

There is a reason religions are called FAITH and not FACT.
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I also believe in religious freedom, but I also know that there are elements of Islam that are detrimental to freedom and encourage repression of free speech. I also believe Sharia Law has no place in America.
 
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