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Well now you are just trying to start a theological debate. I am not here for a theological debate, I am here to tell you that your bigoted views are incorrect.
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Wow, you should have stuck with trying to argue theology... you're sure as hell not doing a very good job of showing where I am bigoted or incorrect. In fact, you have failed miserably at that, and now you want to stomp your feet and proclaim yourself right. All you've really offered here are a few anecdotal liberal platitudes about Muslims, Jews and Christians being "the same" when we all know that's not true. It's more suitable to your taste, to cling to some PC liberal bird-brain understanding of Islam, instead of objectively looking at history and facts, and making an informed evaluation. Why you want to be a pinhead, I have no idea... I never understood what people see in being idiots, but they must see something in it.
 
Onceler said:
Where did I say that you said that?

This should be interesting...
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anytime i tease, joke or off topic, you bring up "substance"....really onceler, you don't have to lie about stuff like this. if you don't claim i never said you couldn't ad hom etc, and must only talk about substance, why do you frequently bring it up?

waits for stupid spin
 
Yurt said:
anytime i tease, joke or off topic, you bring up "substance"....really onceler, you don't have to lie about stuff like this. if you don't claim i never said you couldn't ad hom etc, and must only talk about substance, why do you frequently bring it up?

waits for stupid spin
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Good of you to admit that you fabricated what I said, yet again.

You're really comin' around today. I'm impressed...
 
Onceler said:
Good of you to admit that you fabricated what I said, yet again.

You're really comin' around today. I'm impressed...
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so you can't answer my question about why you frequently bring it up, we both know why you can't answer it, so you of course do as i predicted:

stupid spin.

thanks for that
 
I was watching Benjamin Netanyahu's speech at the UN earlier and I have to say that he did make some very valid points. Especially when he pointed out that Israel removed all traces of their occupancy in Gaza in 2005, including removing graves, razing synagogues and settlements to the ground yet Hamas still continued to fire Grad missiles, supplied by Iran, at Israel.
 
Dixie said:
This is ridiculous. Christians are the followers of Christian faith, which is articulated in The Holy Bible... note the word "HOLY!" It's impossible to actually BE a Christian and NOT believe in the Bible.... you may CLAIM you are a Christian, but unless you believe in the Holy Word of God, you can't be. Furthermore, Christianity specifically requires you to believe that Jesus was the son of Christ, and died on the cross for your sins.

I've repeatedly stated that I am not Christian, I am a spiritualist. If it were possible to believe only parts of the Bible, and be a Christian, I could call myself a Christian. I believe most of the Bible, that doesn't mean I believe the context to be literal, or that my interpretations are the same as others. To the contrary, I believe many of the stories in the Bible are metaphoric and told in a way to be entertaining while emphasizing a moral or principle. "Metaphoric" means that something isn't intended "literally" ....I feel I need to explain these big words to you. I also believe this is why there are thousands of Christian denominations, people have different interpretations of what the Bible says... but ALL Christians have one thing in common, they ALL believe in the Bible and Jesus Christ.
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Bollocks. You are a Christian if you follow the teachings and philosophy of Christ. See the connection? Christ[ian]?You are a Marxist if you follow the philosophy and teachings of Karl Marx. You are a Keynsian if you follow and agree with the 'teachings' of Keynes (just a different adjective formation), you are a Budhist if you follow the philosophy and teachings of Budha, etc, etc, etc. It is NOT necessary to believe and act upon every word they wrote and certainly not necessary to believe and act on what a bunch of strangers wrote about them ... in a different language ... at a different time ... translated by people with an agenda.
You really do not have to be smart to see that, Trixie... so it sould be within your limited capabilities.
 
Onceler said:
Good of you to admit that you fabricated what I said, yet again.

You're really comin' around today. I'm impressed...
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Every time I see the childish scrawlings of Yurt in someone else's post I see the wisdom and happiness in this:-

This message is hidden because Yurt is on your ignore list.

May I suggest that, rather than be faced with a fool who accuses all and sundry of lying and has no substance to anything he writes, you take a leaf from my book and place the idiot on ignore.
 
Superfreak said:
The problem is that they do NOT present two very different Gods, they present two very different VIEWS on the SAME God.

It goes back to the analogy I presented to the two buffoons....

A Democrat will typically view Obama in a very favorable light, highlighting his 'pro's' and downplaying his 'con's'. A Republican will typically view Obama in a very negative light. Highlighting his 'con's' and downplaying his 'pro's'.

The two greatly different views are of the SAME man.

all 3 religions believe in the God of Abraham. That is not disputed. Just because different MEN wrote down different VIEWS ABOUT that God doesn't change the FACT that it is the SAME entity that they are describing.
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Judaism and Christianity do not differ on anything other then who Christ was. Islam goes off the reservation completely. I could make lists of the differences, and if you'd like I will.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
I was watching Benjamin Netanyahu's speech at the UN earlier and I have to say that he did make some very valid points. Especially when he pointed out that Israel removed all traces of their occupancy in Gaza in 2005, including removing graves, razing synagogues and settlements to the ground yet Hamas still continued to fire Grad missiles, supplied by Iran, at Israel.
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Whatever Israel has or hasn't done does not alter the fact that the Palestinians are no less 'a people' than we or the Americans are, and the same rules for statehood should apply. It's not as if they wish to join Europe!!
 
Lowaicue said:
Whatever Israel has or hasn't done does not alter the fact that the Palestinians are no less 'a people' than we or the Americans are, and the same rules for statehood should apply. It's not as if they wish to join Europe!!
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He also pointed out that at Camp David in 2000, they were offered virtually everything that they had asked for but Yasser Arafat rejected it.

Clinton blamed Arafat after the failure of the talks, stating, "I regret that in 2000 Arafat missed the opportunity to bring that nation into being and pray for the day when the dreams of the Palestinian people for a state and a better life will be realized in a just and lasting peace." The failure to come to an agreement was widely attributed to Yasser Arafat, as he walked away from the table without making a concrete counter-offer and because Arafat did little to quell the series of Palestinian riots that began shortly after the summit.[SUP][14][/SUP][SUP][17][/SUP][SUP][18][/SUP] Arafat was also accused of scuttling the talks by Nabil Amr, a former minister in the Palestinian Authority.[SUP][19][/SUP]

Two books published in 2004 placed the blame for the failure of the summit on Arafat. They were The Missing Peace by longtime US Middle East envoy Dennis Ross and My Life by President Clinton. Clinton wrote that Arafat once complimented Clinton by telling him, "You are a great man." Clinton responded, "I am not a great man. I am a failure, and you made me one."[SUP][21][/SUP] During a lecture in Australia, Ross suggested that the reason for the failure was Arafat's unwillingness to sign a final deal with Israel that would close the door on any of the Palestinians' maximum demands, particularly the right of return. Ross claimed that what Arafat really wanted was "a one-state solution. Not independent, adjacent Israeli and Palestinian states, but a single Arab state encompassing all of Historic Palestine".[SUP][22][/SUP]
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_david_2000
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
He also pointed out that at Camp David in 2000, they were offered virtually everything that they had asked for but Yasser Arafat rejected it.

Clinton blamed Arafat after the failure of the talks, stating, "I regret that in 2000 Arafat missed the opportunity to bring that nation into being and pray for the day when the dreams of the Palestinian people for a state and a better life will be realized in a just and lasting peace." The failure to come to an agreement was widely attributed to Yasser Arafat, as he walked away from the table without making a concrete counter-offer and because Arafat did little to quell the series of Palestinian riots that began shortly after the summit.[SUP][14][/SUP][SUP][17][/SUP][SUP][18][/SUP] Arafat was also accused of scuttling the talks by Nabil Amr, a former minister in the Palestinian Authority.[SUP][19][/SUP]
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Certain Tory politicians were against Europe. Bush was against peace in the ME. Mao was agains landlords and intellectuals. I know of very little justification for refusing a second, third or nth offer, if it is the right thing to do.
 
Lowaicue said:
Certain Tory politicians were against Europe. Bush was against peace in the ME. Mao was agains landlords and intellectuals. I know of very little justification for refusing a second, third or nth offer, if it is the right thing to do.
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Many people were against the establishment of a United States of Europe, including myself, the recent events with the Euro should be an absolute vindication of that view. Allowing Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain into the Euro-zone was a mistake of gigantic proportions, it's fascinating how so many former Euro fanatics have been backtracking in recent times. Gordon Brown screwed the UK economy wholesale but at least he kept us out of the Euro, if Blair had got his way we would have been fucked twice over.

I would also point out that the Labour party was vehemently against Europe in the 1970s and early 1980s until Neil Kinnock aka Kinnochio became the leader. Of course he and his family have done very well out of the EU gravy train since then.

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Uk/uk.politics.misc/2006-02/msg02178.html

In the 1970s and the early 1980s the Labour Party was the more Eurosceptic of the two parties, having more anti-European Communities MPs than the Conservatives. In 1975 Labour held a special conference on British membership and the party voted 2-to-1 for Britain to leave the European Communities.[SUP][7][/SUP] In 1979 the Labour manifesto[SUP][8][/SUP] declared that a Labour government would "oppose any move towards turning the Community into a federation" and in 1983[SUP][9][/SUP] they favoured British withdrawal from the EEC. Under the leadership of Neil Kinnock after 1983, however, the Labour Party dropped their opposition to the European Communities and instead favoured greater British integration into European Economic and Monetary Union.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euroscepticism_in_the_United_Kingdom
 
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Lowaicue said:
Bollocks. You are a Christian if you follow the teachings and philosophy of Christ. See the connection? Christ[ian]?You are a Marxist if you follow the philosophy and teachings of Karl Marx. You are a Keynsian if you follow and agree with the 'teachings' of Keynes (just a different adjective formation), you are a Budhist if you follow the philosophy and teachings of Budha, etc, etc, etc. It is NOT necessary to believe and act upon every word they wrote and certainly not necessary to believe and act on what a bunch of strangers wrote about them ... in a different language ... at a different time ... translated by people with an agenda.
You really do not have to be smart to see that, Trixie... so it sould be within your limited capabilities.
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Right. The bible was used as a political tool by men during the entire time it was written and has been rewritten. Dixies is insane.
 
Lowaicue said:
Bollocks. You are a Christian if you follow the teachings and philosophy of Christ. See the connection? Christ[ian]?You are a Marxist if you follow the philosophy and teachings of Karl Marx. You are a Keynsian if you follow and agree with the 'teachings' of Keynes (just a different adjective formation), you are a Budhist if you follow the philosophy and teachings of Budha, etc, etc, etc. It is NOT necessary to believe and act upon every word they wrote and certainly not necessary to believe and act on what a bunch of strangers wrote about them ... in a different language ... at a different time ... translated by people with an agenda.
You really do not have to be smart to see that, Trixie... so it sould be within your limited capabilities.
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To "follow the teachings and philosophy" of Christ, you have to believe the Bible, since that IS the teachings and philosophy. I don't understand why you idiots are trying to argue this insane point of view, what the hell is wrong with you people? There's just not anything any more simple to understand, yet you can't seem to understand it... amazing! Do you know any Muslims who don't believe in the Koran?

Let me clarify one more time... there are Christians who believe different things about what the Bible says, they have different interpretations of what's inside the Bible, but NONE of the thousands of denominations of Christians claim to NOT believe in the Bible. It is impossible to be a follower of Christ, but not follow the Word of God.
 
Lowaicue said:
Whatever Israel has or hasn't done does not alter the fact that the Palestinians are no less 'a people' than we or the Americans are, and the same rules for statehood should apply. It's not as if they wish to join Europe!!
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The Palestinians are less of a people because their never has been a Palestine. If there had never been an America or England, what you are saying would be accurate, but that is NOT the case. Of course Palestinians are people, they are mostly Arab people from Syria or Lebanon.
 
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