WI collective bargaining changes.... already showing positive signs...

Shut up idiot.

Reality is here dude!

Unions are being looked at in a bad way.

If you get boosted with some pot this year, or have been in the past,,,

you deserve it because of your support for the dems. Which in truth is the dems and the reps.

Pro drug cartel aren't you.
 
I care.....if the people paying the taxes have had job losses and pay cuts and cuts to benefits, the people who are living off their taxes have to expect job losses and pay cuts and cuts to benefits.......it's the way life works.....

{by the way, it's been pointed out twice already that the median household income number includes a significant number of two income households).........
No. The way life works is that you have the right to negotiate and charge what the market will bear for your skill and services and not what some hack politician dictates to you. This is just another example of a right wing double standard in which they are all for freedom and democracy......but only for themselves.

What Walker is doing in Wisconsin is stupid, short sighted and self serving. What sort of public services are you going to have with a minimum wage mentality? Why are good ole boy hack politicians worth 6 figure incomes when they produce nothing where as those in public service who actually do produce you want to relegate to a minimum wage standard of living? Do you have any idea what that would do to the quality of public service? How it would degrade education, promote police corruption, create a shortage of nurses at public health centers cause they can make more in the private sector, advocate incompetent morons working as firemen cause competent people won't risk their lives and work for the substandard wages and working conditions that these idiot hack politicians would dictate to them.

You right wingers need to get it through your heads that public service people, particularly professional caliber people, have just as much right to negotiate what the market will bear for their skills and services as anyone in the private sector does. That's what freedom and democracy is all about. It doesn't just apply to the good ole boys club. Negotiating with these people when the market (i.e. the tax payers) cannot bear the cost of their services is fine but taking away their rights is no solution to the problem. It's tyranny, plain and simple.
 
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No. The way life works is that you have the right to negotiate and charge what the market will bear for your skill and services and not what some hack politician dictates to you. This is just another example of a right wing double standard in which they are all for freedom and democracy......but only for themselves.

in this case, the politicians (representing us) are the market......and the market didn't bear what the unions wanted.....
 
in this case, the politicians (representing us) are the market......and the market didn't bear what the unions wanted.....

OH for god's sakes. That's the lamest circular argument I've ever heard.

Ya know the sad fucking thing is, is that both Walker and Kasich could have gotten most of what they wanted by actually bringing labor to the table and making them part of the process but who are you trying to kid, this is not about running government affectively, it's about denying people the basic fundamental right to organize themselves to negotiate for wages and working conditions. This is what Walker and Kasich really oppose.
 
OH for god's sakes. That's the lamest circular argument I've ever heard.

Ya know the sad fucking thing is, is that both Walker and Kasich could have gotten most of what they wanted by actually bringing labor to the table and making them part of the process but who are you trying to kid, this is not about running government affectively, it's about denying people the basic fundamental right to organize themselves to negotiate for wages and working conditions. This is what Walker and Kasich really oppose.

good lord......you've actually forgotten what a circular argument is?.....

.....if workers have a fundamental right to organize themselves, taxpayers have a fundamental right to elect representatives who won't agree with what the unions demand......
 
Reality is here dude!

Unions are being looked at in a bad way.

If you get boosted with some pot this year, or have been in the past,,,

you deserve it because of your support for the dems. Which in truth is the dems and the reps.

Pro drug cartel aren't you.

Where is Dune?

The prohibition lover.

The person that loves our drug policy.
 
Wow... someone has his panties in a bunch.

1) No one is attacking the workers.... we are suggesting PROTECTING the workers.... you seem to think that the only people working are the ones at unions. That is your first mistake.
2) No one is saying compare the hours of teachers to those of students. No one. I asked you how many hours they worked PER YEAR vs. those 'median families'



Do show us where someone said there was TEACHER malfeasance. Otherwise, you should keep your straw men to a minimum.

AGAIN... why did WEA go from a large increase in premiums (when there was NO competition) to 'meeting the lowest bid' when there WAS competition?

Protecting workers? OK....I need a good laugh. Please explain that little piece of utter stupidity for me. Wow, I'm really awed by your compassion and your sincere interest in the well being of those who don't belong to the good ole boy club. How the fuck are you looking out for their best interest by denying them a basic fundamental human right that in a capitalist society you can organize to charge what the market will bear for your services? Please explain to me how that's in my best interest.....and try not to make me laugh my ass off at you in the process.
 
Where is Dune?

The prohibition lover.

The person that loves our drug policy.


Post something when you are not drunk. I can't begin to understand the post you quoted.

To be clear though, I disagree to the death with your stand on unions.
 
good lord......you've actually forgotten what a circular argument is?.....

.....if workers have a fundamental right to organize themselves, taxpayers have a fundamental right to elect representatives who won't agree with what the unions demand......
No you have. A politician says you're only worth this much. I say no this is the cost for my services. Politician says I"m the market, you're only worth this much. That's not a fucking circular argument? You couldn't possibly be that stupid.

Taxpayers have a right to elect people who represent them but in our Republic people have rights that NOT EVEN TAXPAYERS can take away from them. The right to negotiate for wages, benefits and working conditions is one of those fundamental rights. We have the right to charge what the market will bear and not what some hypocritical, self serving good ole boy politician says they are worth.

If you actually believe that utter non-sense then you would agree that the Government has the right to set the fees that you can charge clients. Right?
 
No you have. A politician says you're only worth this much. I say no this is the cost for my services. Politician says I"m the market, you're only worth this much. That's not a fucking circular argument? You couldn't possibly be that stupid.
.....that's not even the argument, let alone a circular argument....
Taxpayers have a right to elect people who represent them but in our Republic people have rights that NOT EVEN TAXPAYERS can take away from them. The right to negotiate for wages, benefits and working conditions is one of those fundamental rights. We have the right to charge what the market will bear and not what some hypocritical, self serving good ole boy politician says they are worth.

If you actually believe that utter non-sense then you would agree that the Government has the right to set the fees that you can charge clients. Right?
you don't have a clue what's going on, do you......or is it that you just don't care?.....
 
Wow... someone has his panties in a bunch.

1) No one is attacking the workers.... we are suggesting PROTECTING the workers.... you seem to think that the only people working are the ones at unions. That is your first mistake.
2) No one is saying compare the hours of teachers to those of students. No one. I asked you how many hours they worked PER YEAR vs. those 'median families'



Do show us where someone said there was TEACHER malfeasance. Otherwise, you should keep your straw men to a minimum.

AGAIN... why did WEA go from a large increase in premiums (when there was NO competition) to 'meeting the lowest bid' when there WAS competition?

Of course you are attacking teachers. You are questioning how many hours they work, then you joyfully support cutting their benefits and their pay. These are people that MAKE $43,000...And you attack teachers by attacking THEIR union. Teachers or any other worker has every RIGHT to belong to a union if that is what THEY CHOOSE. Or does personal choice mean YOU get to decide for them? And with that right to unionize comes the right to collective bargaining. Instead, these teachers health care insurance and other benefits will be dictated. The word 'bargaining' seems to be lost on you.

If I posted an article from Moveon.org you would be all over my 'source'. But you post an article from a right wing equivalent, and we are supposed to take it as gospel?

Your article is a right wing hit piece written by a hack who fails to mention some crucial facts:

These teachers lost MORE benefits that have a monetary value, thus MORE cuts in compensation:

* The new rules also cut sick days from 10 to five

* Eliminate teacher pay for emergency school closings, such as snow days

* District leaders now have the option of furloughing staff members.

And your hit piece touts a savings of 1.5 million, but it failed to mention:

* The school board eliminated 14.49 full-time equivalent positions last month
AND
* In April, the school board rejected a proposal from the Kaukauna Education Association to extend the union's contract and incorporate pension and healthcare concessions along with a wage freeze, a move the union projected could save the district about $1.8 million next year. So they wouldn't have had to fire people.

NOW, let's get to the ONLY point that is not fiscal reductions the teachers and union had ALREADY agreed on from the beginning.

The so called 'why did WEA go from a large increase in premiums (when there was NO competition) to 'meeting the lowest bid' when there WAS competition?'

Here you are claiming some sort of collusion or malfeasance. I am willing to bet it has NOTHING to do with either.

Can you answer this question? Are these teachers getting the same coverage they would have had with the original WEA Trust plan? If not, then they are losing MORE compensation.

Do you understand a government bid process? Because I was involved for years as a bidder. The school district had to write a set of 'specs'...in the case of insurance, it would specify the size, scope, exclusions and co-pays etc. that would be the minimum specifications. WEA Trust could meet the lowest bid because the specs probably call for MUCH LESS coverage for the teachers. But you little scurvy turds don't care about quality, value or people's health and well being...insurance is insurance, just like a Yugo and a Mercedes are both cars.
 
When it comes to their beloved unions, liberals define the word "bargaining" as "do what ever the fuck we say and give us what ever the fuck we demand." So when someone comes along and has the unmitigated gall to say "take what we offer cause that's all you're gonna get" their panties bunch up so tight they can only squeak at ultrasonic frequencies.

It's simple: when one person - or group - use their rights in such a way as to threaten the stability of the entire state economy, THEIR RIGHTS END. No one has the "right" to fuck everyone else (ie: the tax payer) for their own unsupportable comforts. There are MANY more middle class working people OUTSIDE the public union domain, and their rights to receive reasonable value for their tax dollars are NOT superseded by collective bargaining rights. While organizing to prevent labor abuses by employers is still a needed factor even today, there are WAY too many cases in which union power has done more harm than good in their greed. Fucking greedy unions practically shut down the entire city of Butte Montana back in the 80s. And in the case with WI, the greed of the unions is threatening to bankrupt the entire state government. As such, do not expect many (except the brain dead "world owes me a living" liberals) to weep when union power is diminished to prevent their excesses from destroying things.
 
When it comes to their beloved unions, liberals define the word "bargaining" as "do what ever the fuck we say and give us what ever the fuck we demand." So when someone comes along and has the unmitigated gall to say "take what we offer cause that's all you're gonna get" their panties bunch up so tight they can only squeak at ultrasonic frequencies.

It's simple: when one person - or group - use their rights in such a way as to threaten the stability of the entire state economy, THEIR RIGHTS END. No one has the "right" to fuck everyone else (ie: the tax payer) for their own unsupportable comforts. There are MANY more middle class working people OUTSIDE the public union domain, and their rights to receive reasonable value for their tax dollars are NOT superseded by collective bargaining rights. While organizing to prevent labor abuses by employers is still a needed factor even today, there are WAY too many cases in which union power has done more harm than good in their greed. Fucking greedy unions practically shut down the entire city of Butte Montana back in the 80s. And in the case with WI, the greed of the unions is threatening to bankrupt the entire state government. As such, do not expect many (except the brain dead "world owes me a living" liberals) to weep when union power is diminished to prevent their excesses from destroying things.

Yea, 'let them eat cake'...Hey GL, what you just described is not a democracy, it is a dictatorship. But that is what conservatism is all about...building an aristocracy. Thank you for proving my point...

Conservatives...
 
When it comes to their beloved unions, liberals define the word "bargaining" as "do what ever the fuck we say and give us what ever the fuck we demand." So when someone comes along and has the unmitigated gall to say "take what we offer cause that's all you're gonna get" their panties bunch up so tight they can only squeak at ultrasonic frequencies.

It's simple: when one person - or group - use their rights in such a way as to threaten the stability of the entire state economy, THEIR RIGHTS END. No one has the "right" to fuck everyone else (ie: the tax payer) for their own unsupportable comforts. There are MANY more middle class working people OUTSIDE the public union domain, and their rights to receive reasonable value for their tax dollars are NOT superseded by collective bargaining rights. While organizing to prevent labor abuses by employers is still a needed factor even today, there are WAY too many cases in which union power has done more harm than good in their greed. Fucking greedy unions practically shut down the entire city of Butte Montana back in the 80s. And in the case with WI, the greed of the unions is threatening to bankrupt the entire state government. As such, do not expect many (except the brain dead "world owes me a living" liberals) to weep when union power is diminished to prevent their excesses from destroying things.


Oh please..."unions are threatening to bankrupt the entire state government"?...hows about for a change you anti-union people actually SHOW us how unions are "threatening to bankrupt the entire state government". Let's see some facts figures and numbers to back up all this ridiculous hyperbole.
 
The fact that they're getting cut back by the legislatures should be a good start.

Especially in pro-union states.
 
Oh please..."unions are threatening to bankrupt the entire state government"?...hows about for a change you anti-union people actually SHOW us how unions are "threatening to bankrupt the entire state government". Let's see some facts figures and numbers to back up all this ridiculous hyperbole.



Funny, I don't see anything but more hyperbole from the right. Are they incapable of providing any substantial evidence for their childish rants?
 
Everytime somebody does, you ignore it. Especially common sense facts, or statements.



SHOW us how unions are "threatening to bankrupt the entire state government". Let's see some facts & figures.
 
SHOW us how unions are "threatening to bankrupt the entire state government". Let's see some facts & figures.

Try watching the news out-of-touch one.

Google it.

Don't waist our time with your crap.

Everytime people do give you facts, you ignore them. So why should anyone bother taking the time needed with you.
 
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