Newt is considering running

Mott the Hoople said:
Spoken like a true partisan with blinders on. The hypocracy here is that if Obama had rejected TARP and the GM/Chrysler bail out and the economy tanked you would blame him for that. If he had failed to reform health care and you or someone in your family had a catastrophic illness causing you to file for bankruptcy you would have blamed him for that.

You're just a hack partisan.
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fuck off.....wasn't TARP the inspiration of Geitner?....the GM/Chrysler bailout certainly was.....and the health care reform was one of Obama's biggest fuckups......for you to pretend these weren't failures shows us exactly who the partisan hack is......
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Then how comes the data, and I'll reference the chart PMP posted, is trending upwards?

By your comments and PMP's either the very data he posted to defend his position is invalid or one has to objectively draw the conclusion, based on the upward swing in the data, that consumer confidence is improving under Obama.

If you believe otherwise, please explain that to me based on this data?
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I can explain it......you only want to look at part of the graph, so you can pretend that somehow it tells us something good about Obama.......looking at the whole graph tells us the truth.....

if that's not enough for you, what does this tell you about consumer confidence.....

Three in four Americans now say the effects of the recession will last another two years or more. More than eight in 10 say the condition of the economy is bad, up five points from last month.
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20010461-503544.html

so, you boys still prepared to hang your balls in the "Obama's made it better" pocket?......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I can explain it......you only want to look at part of the graph, so you can pretend that somehow it tells us something good about Obama.......looking at the whole graph tells us the truth.....

if that's not enough for you, what does this tell you about consumer confidence.....


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20010461-503544.html

so, you boys still prepared to hang your balls in the "Obama's made it better" pocket?......
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You don't really understand economics.

Consumer confidence was tanking regardless of who took office in 2009. You seem to be contending that Obama was responsible for taking it to levels not seen since the Carter years. That's the height of absurdity. The freefall started before he took office.

Whether you like it or not, the bailouts & stimulus were big factors in turning the tide. That was my point, which you keep ignoring. The key stat - which you ridiculed and then proved correct with your chart - is the improvement over the past year.

Again - thanks for that.
 
Onceler said:
You seem to be contending that Obama was responsible for taking it to levels not seen since the Carter years.
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uh, no....I am pointing out that he hasn't made it better....isn't that the whole point of the thread?.....a year and a half later, it's still "at levels not seen since Carter's years"......after all the "wonderful" things Obama has done to stimulate the economy consumer confidence is still, as the graph shows, a full step lower than it was during those "horrible" years of the Bush administration...........
 
Onceler said:
I can't be any clearer than I have been on this thread, and still, what I have said continues to be exaggerated & misinterpreted. I have said that things aren't amazing, and that we are still not out of the woods.

Yet, those on the right here have tried to portray that I have said things are "awesome," or that "everything is working."

My only point - yet to be refuted - is that we are in a better place now than we were a year ago. That's it.

And we are.
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You have said we are "better off"...

We won't be better off until those people start getting jobs again. That's the flat truth. I'm glad we aren't digging further at the moment, but I certainly don't see it getting "better" for those people who still don't have jobs. We need to stimulate the WHOLE economy, not targeted wishes and hopes. Obamanomics is Reaganomics just more "targeted" and using "grants" instead of tax cuts. We need to stimulate growth, because we can't flatline our way out of this nor are we going to be able to make it out solely on the "new Green Economy"...
 
PostmodernProphet said:
fuck off.....wasn't TARP the inspiration of Geitner?....the GM/Chrysler bailout certainly was.....and the health care reform was one of Obama's biggest fuckups......for you to pretend these weren't failures shows us exactly who the partisan hack is......
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Stick to the fact PMP. TARP was promulgated and Bush and supported by him. that's a fact. In the second place, you can't even provide the evidence to identify these as failures. Pure partisan hackery.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I can explain it......you only want to look at part of the graph, so you can pretend that somehow it tells us something good about Obama.......looking at the whole graph tells us the truth.....

if that's not enough for you, what does this tell you about consumer confidence.....


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20010461-503544.html

so, you boys still prepared to hang your balls in the "Obama's made it better" pocket?......
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Why are you avoiding the question. I'm basing my comments on the data you provided. The data shows consumer confidence hitting rock bottom under Bush but though far from ideal it has trended upwards under Obama. Why is that?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
uh, no....I am pointing out that he hasn't made it better....isn't that the whole point of the thread?.....a year and a half later, it's still "at levels not seen since Carter's years"......after all the "wonderful" things Obama has done to stimulate the economy consumer confidence is still, as the graph shows, a full step lower than it was during those "horrible" years of the Bush administration...........
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Then why has consumer confidence trended upwards, according to this data, since Obama became President?
 
Damocles said:
You have said we are "better off"...

We won't be better off until those people start getting jobs again. That's the flat truth. I'm glad we aren't digging further at the moment, but I certainly don't see it getting "better" for those people who still don't have jobs. We need to stimulate the WHOLE economy, not targeted wishes and hopes. Obamanomics is Reaganomics just more "targeted" and using "grants" instead of tax cuts. We need to stimulate growth, because we can't flatline our way out of this nor are we going to be able to make it out solely on the "new Green Economy"...
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I agree. Now what you're saying makes sense compared to PMP's partisan hackery. Though there are signs of improvement we are in a situation that is far from ideal and a whole hell of a lot more improvement is required. If unemployment isn't down to approximately the 5% level and consumer confidence isn't upwards in the 90's, Obama will have problems in his re-election campaing assuming the Repubs don't nominate someone unelectable.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Stick to the fact PMP. TARP was promulgated and Bush and supported by him. that's a fact. In the second place, you can't even provide the evidence to identify these as failures. Pure partisan hackery.
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since you also cannot provide evidence to show they had a positive impact, I suspect your position is equaly hackerized......and I beg you to show me something that indicates Bush said, "hey I had great idea last night"......I've always understood TARP to be the brainchild of Geitner.....wasn't his brilliant work in devising that plan the justification for giving him the position he now holds?.........
 
Damocles said:
We are not yet on the upswing. We started down the hill under Bush, and hit bottom and leveled out under Obama, leveling out isn't good enough. I hope we can grow despite the targeted nature of the "stimulus" and that we get out of this, I don't even care if it means Obama gets reelected. But telling everybody that everything is working when those who have lost their jobs still have no jobs is a bit much.
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You are smarter than that, we have done better than level out, we are improving, slightly... Its not good enough, but comming out of the worst economic crisis since the 1930's Id say it is as good as can be expected. I expect a lot better in the comming year.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Why are you avoiding the question. I'm basing my comments on the data you provided. The data shows consumer confidence hitting rock bottom under Bush but though far from ideal it has trended upwards under Obama. Why is that?
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I don't believe I'm avoiding anything.....look at the eight years of Bush's administration......drop because of recession.......year and a half of Obama's administration.....

now, is your reaction to that, "shucks, things sure look good since we got Obama!".....seriously?.......
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Shit Dixie. I'm not crazy. I just go by what Professional Historians say. They rate W at #36 out of 42 Presidents. That means of the modern Presidents he's considered to be a bigger fuck up then Carter who wasn't have the fuck up that Nixon was. LOL
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considering that Obama has continued and extended every bush policy out there, where does that place Obama?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
uh, no....I am pointing out that he hasn't made it better....isn't that the whole point of the thread?.....a year and a half later, it's still "at levels not seen since Carter's years"......after all the "wonderful" things Obama has done to stimulate the economy consumer confidence is still, as the graph shows, a full step lower than it was during those "horrible" years of the Bush administration...........
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A) Bush presided over the greatest economic collapse in decades. Let's not pretend he's getting an unfair shake in history regarding the economy.

B) I love your spin on the graph. The REAL question is...has confidence improved since Obama took office?

And yes, Virginia - it has. Once again; thanks for posting that.
 
Onceler said:
A) Bush presided over the greatest economic collapse in decades. Let's not pretend he's getting an unfair shake in history regarding the economy.

B) I love your spin on the graph. The REAL question is...has confidence improved since Obama took office?

And yes, Virginia - it has. Once again; thanks for posting that.
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I guess the real mind-bender is, if CC dips back down to or below the starting level, will we still consider it to have improved (which it did), or do we just look at that present condition and say "know!!"
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Then how comes the data, and I'll reference the chart PMP posted, is trending upwards?

By your comments and PMP's either the very data he posted to defend his position is invalid or one has to objectively draw the conclusion, based on the upward swing in the data, that consumer confidence is improving under Obama.

If you believe otherwise, please explain that to me based on this data?
Click to expand...

If you read my previous posts, you'd know that I said with one stated exception, that I bothered to look up, I'd 'give' his points, at least for discussion. Shoo now.
 
Damocles said:
You have said we are "better off"...

We won't be better off until those people start getting jobs again. That's the flat truth. I'm glad we aren't digging further at the moment, but I certainly don't see it getting "better" for those people who still don't have jobs. We need to stimulate the WHOLE economy, not targeted wishes and hopes. Obamanomics is Reaganomics just more "targeted" and using "grants" instead of tax cuts. We need to stimulate growth, because we can't flatline our way out of this nor are we going to be able to make it out solely on the "new Green Economy"...
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and with news like the real estate market out this morning, it's highly questionable if we've 'stopped digging' or it's a breather before the second front.
 
Annie said:
and with news like the real estate market out this morning, it's highly questionable if we've 'stopped digging' or it's a breather before the second front.
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Fill your lungs deeply and grab your ankles cuz we just might be getting royally screwed.
 
usaloyal2theend said:
Fill your lungs deeply and grab your ankles cuz we just might be getting royally screwed.
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I hope the optimists are correct, just see nothing to indicated we are in recovery. Not much going on except 'unexpected' bad news on GDP, unemployment numbers, people taking themselves out of seeking employment, retail sales, real estate, etc.
 
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