Newt is considering running

Onceler said:
We experienced one of the worst economic freefalls in history under Bush.

Under Obama, we're on the upswing.

And c'mon - didn't you think PMP's chart was funny? All this time, he's been ridiculing me for claiming that confidence is up over last year, and then he goes & posts a chart that shows it. How can it get better than that?
Click to expand...
We are not yet on the upswing. We started down the hill under Bush, and hit bottom and leveled out under Obama, leveling out isn't good enough. I hope we can grow despite the targeted nature of the "stimulus" and that we get out of this, I don't even care if it means Obama gets reelected. But telling everybody that everything is working when those who have lost their jobs still have no jobs is a bit much.
 
Damocles said:
We are not yet on the upswing. We started down the hill under Bush, and hit bottom and leveled out under Obama, leveling out isn't good enough. I hope we can grow despite the targeted nature of the "stimulus" and that we get out of this, I don't even care if it means Obama gets reelected. But telling everybody that everything is working when those who have lost their jobs still have no jobs is a bit much.
Click to expand...

I can't be any clearer than I have been on this thread, and still, what I have said continues to be exaggerated & misinterpreted. I have said that things aren't amazing, and that we are still not out of the woods.

Yet, those on the right here have tried to portray that I have said things are "awesome," or that "everything is working."

My only point - yet to be refuted - is that we are in a better place now than we were a year ago. That's it.

And we are.
 
Dixie said:
So the stock market is 50% recovered from the recession that Democrats caused by demanding Freddy and Fannie make loans to people who couldn't afford them, and then spending our grandchildren's futures to bail them out when they collapsed, and this is supposed to be a feather in the Democrat's cap? It's like your teenagers burned the house down while you were away on business, and you return to find a half built shack in place of your home, with someone telling you how much better things are than the night of the fire! These people don't know what they are doing, and they have literally squandered trillions of dollars to prop up an anemic economy, while moving ahead with plans that will destroy even more private sector jobs! It's like you have bought in to some mythical illusion that the economy has turned around, and things are wonderful now, based on a few artificially induced indicators designed to make you believe the illusion!
Click to expand...

First... BOTH parties were touting the nonsense of 'more home owners than ever before'.... Bush said it many times.

Second... BOTH parties voted to repeal Glass Steagall... which removed the firewall that existed between the retail banks and the investment banks.

Third... the question that was asked as not 'the difference between today and right before the melt down began.'.... the question was... 'the difference between today and when Obama took office'

I don't believe the dollar is "significantly" stronger, and nothing is helping the small and midsized businesses, when every policy from this administration is geared to make them have to pay MORE in taxes and employer benefits in the coming years. There is absolutely NOTHING proposed to encourage or stimulate growth, and this is why unemployment remains near 10%.... significantly higher than it ever was under Bush.
Click to expand...

I don't care WHAT you believe. The dollar WAS pricing to where you had to pay $1.60 to get a Euro. NOW the dollar is pricing to where you only need $1.25 to get a Euro. that makes it significantly stronger...


Well, you know, eventually you run out of jobs to lose every month! Once companies have trimmed to the bare bones, there are no more jobs to be lost! We've extended unemployment benefits twice under Obama, are we just going to perpetually keep extending them? Where are all these "shovel ready jobs" he PROMISED would be there, if we passed the stimulus?
Click to expand...

That is absurd. There are ALWAYS more jobs that could be lost. Again, I am NOT saying that Obama's policies have been good. If you bothered reading, I have stated I think the economy is going to get worse from here because of his policies. But that has nothing to do with the question that I answered... that YOU YOURSELF agreed with.


The financial sector was never in as much trouble as everyone claimed. Some elements were, Freddy and Fannie were in trouble because Barney Frank and Democrats in Congress literally mandated they make low-interest loans to people who had no business buying the houses they were being financed for, and they went belly up. Again. we dumped hundreds of billions into bailing them out, so of course they aren't in trouble now... but look at what it cost us?
Click to expand...

Yes, the financial sector was in every bit as much trouble as people stated, in fact it was and IS in bad shape still.


And if you want to myopically focus on the raw numbers and pretend it's not artificially created, that's all the proof anyone needs that you are a moron. No, we're not out of the woods, we haven't even started to try and get out of the woods! We're still deep in the forest looking at the pretty trees, and pretending everything is just fine... we're not lost... really!
Click to expand...

Once again you resort to your typical bullshit.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
what are you guys, the blind leading the blind?......only a liberal would take heart for the fact that consumer confidence under Obama is on par with consumer confidence under Carter......
Click to expand...
What a blind partisan hypocrit. Hell you can't even read a graph. LOL The evidence is right there before your eyes that consumer confidence declined all through the Bush years, where it reached rock bottom at the end of this term and has gradually been climbin since Obama has become president. It's right there before your eyes and you can't even read the very data you posted! LOL

Well they say an age isn't dark because there is no light but because peope like you refuse to see it.

Alls I can say is that if Obama can modernize our nations health care systems to be comparable to the other wealthy industrialized nations and obtain those level of results and pull us out of the economic mess Bush left us in and get us out of that immoral war in Iraq, he may not bring us back to Clinton or Eisenhower levels of prosperity but he'll have been a very significant President.

Obama is unquestionably weighed down from repairing the damage from the disaster that was the Bush years. I don't think it either fair or reasonable to expect him to repair the damage Bush did in two short years. Do you?
 
Onceler said:
Why do you keep twisting words and exaggerating?

The main point we were discussing was that confidence was better now than in 2009, which you said you had "shown was wrong." Then, you went on to post a chart which was pretty conclusive that I was correct.

Again - thanks.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
 
Topspin said:
Newt running would be comedy central gold.
Can you imagine the kind of new ass he would tear Sarah Baracuda?
Click to expand...
Actually it would be quite interesting. I can see Newt placing himself in the middle between Sarah and Mitt, and playting them off against each other quite succesfully. Though Newt has some serious disadvantages he has some very serious positive ones, at least within in the Republican coalition.

#1. He's a well seasoned and experienced insider who knows how Washington works and how to get things done there. He's also no neophyte to building a political machine.

#2. His status as a Southern Wasp places him in good standing with the Good Ole Boys in the GOP.

#3. In the Republican primaries he can play the middle ground and use Mitt's record against him as to liberal (and Mormon) for the parties base and he can play Sara as a neophyte who is to inexperienced and to extreme.

I don't think Newt would make a good general election candidate for the Republicans but I think he can certainly be a front runner for the GOP nomination.
 
Damocles said:
We are not yet on the upswing. We started down the hill under Bush, and hit bottom and leveled out under Obama, leveling out isn't good enough. I hope we can grow despite the targeted nature of the "stimulus" and that we get out of this, I don't even care if it means Obama gets reelected. But telling everybody that everything is working when those who have lost their jobs still have no jobs is a bit much.
Click to expand...
I have to disagree with you. The data is clearly showing the economy is on the upswing. I do agree with you though that it's not good enough and it's a long way from where we need it to be. "I'm not as big a fuck up as Bush" is hardly the kind of platform that will get Obama re-elected, that is, unless the Republicans nominate someone who is as big a fuck up as Bush. He needs to do better. He needs to get unemployment down towards the 5% range and consumer confidence in the 90's. If he can do that by 2012, baring something unforseen, Obama should be a shoe in for re-election. If the economy stays where it's at and we stay bogged down in Iraq and the Republicans nominated someone competant like Romney, Obama will have a tough go at re-election.
 
wait a minute oncelor.
When we have a dem president republiKlans don't consider growing GDP for 3 qtr's an upswing. I think the number of quarters they require is > term limits
 
Onceler said:
I can't be any clearer than I have been on this thread, and still, what I have said continues to be exaggerated & misinterpreted. I have said that things aren't amazing, and that we are still not out of the woods.

Yet, those on the right here have tried to portray that I have said things are "awesome," or that "everything is working."

My only point - yet to be refuted - is that we are in a better place now than we were a year ago. That's it.

And we are.
Click to expand...

the hell we are.....on the news today, nationally mortgage foreclosures are up 8% from a year ago today, in Muskegon, MI they are up 51% from a year ago....is that sinking in, junior? FIFTY ONE FUCKING PERCENT from a year ago today......I want you to be perfectly clear on where you can stick your "we are better off".......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
the hell we are.....on the news today, nationally mortgage foreclosures are up 8% from a year ago today, in Muskegon, MI they are up 51% from a year ago....is that sinking in, junior? FIFTY ONE FUCKING PERCENT from a year ago today......I want you to be perfectly clear on where you can stick your "we are better off".......
Click to expand...

LOL

Still sore about posting a chart that proved me right?
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Alls I can say is that if Obama can modernize our nations health care systems to be comparable to the other wealthy industrialized nations and obtain those level of results and pull us out of the economic mess Bush left us in and get us out of that immoral war in Iraq, he may not bring us back to Clinton or Eisenhower levels of prosperity but he'll have been a very significant President.
Click to expand...

lol, all three things he has failed in.......nice choice.....
 
Onceler said:
LOL

Still sore about posting a chart that proved me right?
Click to expand...

the chart proves people have as little confidence in the economy today as they had under Carter.....if you intend to rely on that to prove Obama has accomplished great things you're definitely grasping for straws........
 
Onceler said:
I can't be any clearer than I have been on this thread, and still, what I have said continues to be exaggerated & misinterpreted. I have said that things aren't amazing, and that we are still not out of the woods.

Yet, those on the right here have tried to portray that I have said things are "awesome," or that "everything is working."

My only point - yet to be refuted - is that we are in a better place now than we were a year ago. That's it.

And we are.
Click to expand...

Problem is not just today, but tomorrow. Consumer confidence is based upon a belief things will get better, just not what people are feeling now:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38240385/ns/business-real_estate/

Mortgage applications sink to 13-year low
High unemployment and foreclosures remain major hurdles to home buyers
updated

Demand for loans to purchase U.S. homes sank to a 13-year low last week, and refinancing demand also slid despite near record-low mortgage rates, the Mortgage Bankers Association said on Wednesday.

Requests for loans to buy homes dropped 3.1 percent in the week ended July 9, after adjusting for the Independence Day holiday, to the lowest level since December 1996, the industry group said.

Refinancing applications fell 2.9 percent, and the mortgage market index that reflects total loan demand also fell 2.9 percent.

Average 30-year mortgage rates edged up 0.01 percentage point to 4.69 percent, but were near the record low of 4.61 percent set in March 2009, based on MBA records dating back to 1990.

Rock-bottom borrowing costs are helping borrowers with pristine credit to buy and those who still have equity in their homes to refinance.

But high unemployment and foreclosures remain major hurdles, and worries that prices could dip further are also keeping many potential buyers on the sidelines...
Click to expand...
 
PostmodernProphet said:
based on what I have seen so far I don't expect to see him repair anything......all he's done so far is make it worse........
Click to expand...
Spoken like a true partisan with blinders on. The hypocracy here is that if Obama had rejected TARP and the GM/Chrysler bail out and the economy tanked you would blame him for that. If he had failed to reform health care and you or someone in your family had a catastrophic illness causing you to file for bankruptcy you would have blamed him for that.

You're just a hack partisan.
 
Annie said:
Problem is not just today, but tomorrow. Consumer confidence is based upon a belief things will get better, just not what people are feeling now:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38240385/ns/business-real_estate/
Click to expand...
Then how comes the data, and I'll reference the chart PMP posted, is trending upwards?

By your comments and PMP's either the very data he posted to defend his position is invalid or one has to objectively draw the conclusion, based on the upward swing in the data, that consumer confidence is improving under Obama.

If you believe otherwise, please explain that to me based on this data?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top