Most Gazans didn't support Hamas attacking

[Althea]

Groups that specifically target civilians are wrong to do so. This is Russia is doing in Ukraine and Hamas in Israel. Groups targeting military targets who have surrounded themselves with human shields have a right to target the military target and accept the collateral damage.

Putin claims that Ukraine fighters are hiding in hospitals and schools. So you agree that Putin is justified in killing innocents.

Just as Israel is making the same claim. It is a common ploy that was used in Iraq, but I believe there should be solid evidence before wiping out entire cities.

Something that we rarely see.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Putin claims that Ukraine fighters are hiding in hospitals and schools. So you agree that Putin is justified in killing innocents.

Just as Israel is making the same claim. It is a common ploy that was used in Iraq, but I believe there should be solid evidence before wiping out entire cities.

Something that we rarely see.

Putin claims the Ukrainians are Nazis. The question is, are Ukrainians illegally using hospitals and schools as military installations or not? This is something for a neutral party to figure out such as the Red Cross.

FWIW, if a hospital is treating combat casualties, both military and civilian, that's legit. Using a hospital as a military HQ, a weapons cache or military unit staging area is not legit.

 

[Cypress]

So CNN verified by video analysis that Hamas closed off all the exists to that music festival, and then started slaughtering people, chasing the ones running away, and spending hours hunting down those who were hiding.

 

[Althea]

Sooooo...the UN doesn't condemn terrorists unless they are part of the UN?

Iran, Lebanon, Syria and Russia are all members of the UN. Why no condemnation against them for slaughtering civilians with gas, missiles and artillery?

https://www.un.org/en/about-us/member-states

BTW, where are all the boats from peace-loving Arab states to help evacuate innocent Palestinians out of the war zone?

The U.N criticized American terrorists just before we murdered innocents during Shock And Awe.

What good did that do?

Your question about the U.N 'telling Hamas to stand down' suggests that the U.N has the power to force that to happen.

Which has nothing to do with the 'condemnation' that you have now changed the subject to.

Are you saying the U.N hasn't condemned Hamas?

 

[Cypress]

I think they're going to face coordinated guerilla attacks when they do that.

I suppose IDF is expecting casualties and rocket attacks on Israeli civilians.

 

[Althea]

Putin claims the Ukrainians are Nazis. The question is, are Ukrainians illegally using hospitals and schools as military installations or not? This is something for a neutral party to figure out such as the Red Cross.

FWIW, if a hospital is treating combat casualties, both military and civilian, that's legit. Using a hospital as a military HQ, a weapons cache or military unit staging area is not legit.

We agree. But the claims are always the same because they are expedient for wiping out civilian populations in the hopes of also getting some bad actors.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The U.N criticized American terrorists just before we murdered innocents during Shock And Awe.

What good did that do?

Your question about the U.N 'telling Hamas to stand down' suggests that the U.N has the power to force that to happen.

Which has nothing to do with the 'condemnation' that you have now changed the subject to.

Are you saying the U.N hasn't condemned Hamas?

You are accusing the United States military of being terrorists like Hamas? Is this why you think what Hamas did is okay?

Thanks for admitting the UN is toothless and can't stop Iran, Syria and Lebanon from supporting terrorists committing mass murder against civilians.

 

[Althea]

I suppose IDF is expecting casualties and rocket attacks on Israeli civilians.

The rocket attacks are continuing, and now I believe from the north as well.

It's hard to determine if Hamas was so well organized that they baited Israel into a house to house mission?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

We agree. But the claims are always the same because they are expedient for wiping out civilian populations in the hopes of also getting some bad actors.

Claims are one thing, the truth is another.

Again, are the Russians targeting civilians? Yes. Are the Ukrainians illegally using their own people as meat shields or putting a Red Cross over a weapons cache? Doubtful and unknown, but I doubt they would since it would cost them US support.

Better to just have better camoflage netting or underground bunkers.

 

[Althea]

You are accusing the United States military of being terrorists like Hamas? Is this why you think what Hamas did is okay?

Thanks for admitting the UN is toothless and can't stop Iran, Syria and Lebanon from supporting terrorists committing mass murder against civilians.

The U.N, with its odd veto rules, is toothless.

If you don't think Shock And Awe was a terrorist action, then we probably shouldn't discuss that point.

If you don't believe that Reagan sending chemical weapons to Saddam to be used against Iran is a terrorist action, then we won't discuss that either.

We love surrogates, because they offer plausible deniability. Bush had a tepid multinational coalition when he murdered innocent Iraqis.

I remember French fries became Freedom fries because France was wise to Cheney's lies.

 

[Cypress]

The rocket attacks are continuing, and now I believe from the north as well.

It's hard to determine if Hamas was so well organized that they baited Israel into a house to house mission?

I don't know what options Israel has. Back off and offer to talk and negotiate with Hamas? Even the supposedly progressive Europeans consider Hamas a terrorist group. My concern in the OP is that all Gazans won't be held collectively accountable, and some restraint will be shown by IDF.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The U.N, with its odd veto rules, is toothless.

If you don't think Shock And Awe was a terrorist action, then we probably shouldn't discuss that point.

If you don't believe that Reagan sending chemical weapons to Saddam to be used against Iran is a terrorist action, then we won't discuss that either.

We love surrogates, because they offer plausible deniability. Bush had a tepid multinational coalition when he murdered innocent Iraqis.

I remember French fries became Freedom fries because France was wise to Cheney's lies.

Link to where "shock and awe" was a terrorist act. All I know is that it was targetting military targets....which is not a defense for GW starting a fucking war in Iraq.

Link to Reagan sending Saddam gas to use on Iranians since it didn't happen. This is what happened: The US provided Saddam with CIA intelligence of Iranian positions knowing that Saddam would probably use Mustard and Sarin gas against them. We sent intelligence, not chemicals.

https://theweek.com/articles/460716/how-helped-saddam-hussein-use-chemical-weapons-against-iran

 

[Althea]

You are accusing the United States military of being terrorists like Hamas? Is this why you think what Hamas did is okay?

LOL. You're in weekend idiot mode again. No reponse to this nonsense is necessary

Thanks for admitting the UN is toothless and can't stop Iran, Syria and Lebanon from supporting terrorists committing mass murder against civilians.

Does anyone believe the U.N is capable of anything but performing tasks that a unanimous vote will bring?

They have humanitarian capabilities, and have put weapons inspectors in Iraq/Iran. Other than that, the rules keep them from accomplishing anything with actual teeth.

 

[Nordberg]

Hamas knew exactly what Israel would do. The question is why they wanted Israel to kill a lot of Palestinians. Hamas has to believe someone will come to their aid. Iran says they will not watch Israel slaughter Palestinians. Perhaps it is them? This could be the start of something big. Hamas is likely long gone. They took the tunnels to Egypt.

 

[Althea]

Link to where "shock and awe" was a terrorist act. All I know is that it was targetting military targets....which is not a defense for GW starting a fucking war in Iraq.

Willful ignorance on your part doesn't change history.

Choose whichever links serves you the best.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how...ajBqMTWoAgiwAgE&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#ip=1

Link to Reagan sending Saddam gas to use on Iranians since it didn't happen. This is what happened: The US provided Saddam with CIA intelligence of Iranian positions knowing that Saddam would probably use Mustard and Sarin gas against them. We sent intelligence, not chemicals.

https://theweek.com/articles/460716/how-helped-saddam-hussein-use-chemical-weapons-against-iran

Whereas you are correct that the CIA was complicit in Reagan's terrorist acts against Iran, many nations were selling chemical weapons to Iraq. Some in the form of 'dual use' products, and some directly as chemical weapons. Germany is on record as selling the lion's share, but numerous U.S companies were also involved

How Western companies sneakily sold chemical weapons components to Syria and Iraq

Outgoing Foreign Secretary William Hague admitted this week that in the 1980s British companies sold precursor chemicals to the Syrian government that Damascus used to manufacture lethal sarin.
But even as late as 2012, British firms were planning to honor contracts to export dual-use chemicals to Syria — in other words, chemicals that could have civilian or military applications. Pharmaceuticals, pesticides, and medicines all contain agents that could also be weapons.
German and Indian firms also have legally sold dual-use chemicals to Syria in recent years.


Dual-use chemical complicate governments' efforts to limit the spread of chemical weapons. In the early 1990s, the U.S. tried to block the shipping of dual-use products to Iran, Libya, and Syria. Washington had to deal with multiple Southeast Asian firms and Middle Eastern port authorities.
Companies successfully argued that U.S. dual-use standards did not apply to them since they weren't American firms. Some told Washington that it had no case unless it could prove the companies' clients were misusing the materials.


In 1991, a U.N. dossier outlined years of dual-use sales to Iraq worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Fortunately for the firms involved, the U.N. couldn't positively link these sales to Iraq's work on VX nerve gas.
The U.S. and the U.K. both previously had sold hundreds of millions of dollars' worth of dual-use equipment to Iraq in the early 1980s. But for Baghdad, the foreign suppliers that really counted were German.
By purchasing materials in small amounts through a clandestine global procurement network, Iraq ran rings around non-proliferation laws. West Germany tightened up it chemical export controls in 1984, but the damage was done. In 1992, the U.N. cataloged products from 17 different German companies at Iraq's Al Muthanna chemical-weapons complex.

Firms in the U.S., France, India, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, Switzerland, Malaysia, Italy, Singapore, the USSR, Japan, China, North Korea, the two Germanies, Thailand, The Netherlands, Austria, and the U.K. all were involved in dual-use sales to Iraq, Libya, or Syria. After U.N. inspectors got access to Iraqi records following the 1991 Gulf War, the U.N. didn't publicize who had sold what … in order to avoid embarrassing leading governments.

 

[Althea]

Hamas knew exactly what Israel would do. The question is why they wanted Israel to kill a lot of Palestinians. Hamas has to believe someone will come to their aid. Iran says they will not watch Israel slaughter Palestinians. Perhaps it is them? This could be the start of something big. Hamas is likely long gone. They took the tunnels to Egypt.

Hamas doesn't care about Palestinian innocents. They wanted to start a war that would see Israel attacked on many fronts. Hezbollah is sitting on thousands of missiles just waiting to be sent into Israel.

I fear you might be right about Hamas.

 

[Althea]

I don't know what options Israel has. Back off and offer to talk and negotiate with Hamas? Even the supposedly progressive Europeans consider Hamas a terrorist group. My concern in the OP is that all Gazans won't be held collectively accountable, and some restraint will be shown by IDF.

The bloodlust we saw here in the first few days was the same bloodlust that Netanyahu was fomenting.

His warning to innocents in Gaza is the same exact warning that Dubyah gave to innocent Iraqis...leave in 48 hours or die.

Thousands died in Iraq not only during Shock and Awe, but in the months/years after.

If not for the world speaking out against Israel's intention to wipe out innocents in Gaza, we might already have seen the carnage.

I don't know if a coordinated house/house search is possible without numerous Israeli casualties? At the very least they could seal the tunnels once and for all, and seek out the factories where Hamas claimed to be manufacturing the weapons used in their attack last week.

We are long past the negotiation phase, as Hamas is comprised of moron zealots and Israel's P.M is also a zealot who refuses to give one inch.

 

[christiefan915]

What do you expect from someone who voted for Biden and Fetterman?

Whereas you voted for two corrupt grifters and a far-right fundamentalist...

 

[Stone]

The PA were and are pigs, remember them hijacking a cruise ship and throwing an elderly Jewish man in a wheel chair overboard

Leon Klinghoffer

(September 24, 1916 – October 8, 1985) was an American man who was shot, killed and thrown overboard from the cruise ship Achille Lauro by members of the Palestinian Liberation Front who hijacked the ship in 1985.


Achille Lauro hijacking

https://www.britannica.com/event/Achille-Lauro-hijacking

Remember it well.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

LOL. You're in weekend idiot mode again. No reponse to this nonsense is necessary

Does anyone believe the U.N is capable of anything but performing tasks that a unanimous vote will bring?

They have humanitarian capabilities, and have put weapons inspectors in Iraq/Iran. Other than that, the rules keep them from accomplishing anything with actual teeth.

^^^
Going off his meds?