Most Gazans didn't support Hamas attacking

[Cypress]

Israel is poing to remove the Palestinian Hamas overlords. Israel is doing them a favor. Israel does not believe in collective punishment and that is EXACTLY why they have told them to get out of the way.

I am on Team Israel when it comes to slaughtering Hamas barbarians.

I didn't say Israel believes in collective punishment. I'm saying I have seen way to many posts on this board from so called "christians", who are holding all Gazans - men, women, and, and and children - collectively responsible.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Perhaps you missed, "Elections haven’t been held in Gaza since 2006, but polling from March 2023 found that 45% of Gazans would back Hamas should there be a vote, ahead of Fatah at 32%."

$20 says that support for Hamas will drop after their houses are blown up.

 

[Cypress]

Not an expert, but it appears they have a parliamentary style government with Hamas controlling most of the seats thus putting them in charge.

There hasn't been a free and fair election in Gaza since 2006.

Voting for Hamas is an asshole thing to do.

But quantitatively, it seems like at least half, and probably more Gazans don't support Hamas. In some parts of the middle east, he who has the most AK-47s usually has access to power.

Gaza is an open air prison camp. Leaving it is almost impossible. I am sure a lot of Gazans would like to get away from Hamas and go live in Turkey or Germany.

My take on the situation is basically the same as the European Union:

European Union leaders arrive in Israel "to express solidarity"
From CNN's James Frater in London

The President of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen and European Parliament President Roberta Metsola arrived in Israel Friday.

Von der Leyen wrote on X, formerly Twitter, that she had arrived in Israel "to express our solidarity with the Israeli people in the wake of the horrific Hamas terrorist attack."

Metsola, also writing on X, said: "We are here with a message of solidarity after the worst terror attack Israel has endured in generations."

"Terror will not prevail. How we respond matters," Metsola said. "We can – we must – stop Hamas. And do what we can to mitigate humanitarian consequences."



https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live...r-10-13-23/h_fd00a63a025d7cfc5ff874171e42edf5

 

[Cypress]

I wonder why the impotent pEarl with his impotent groans finds the fact that Hamas has minority support among the Arab people so repellent? Like all black and white "thinkers," apparently he prefers his enemies to be 100% evil, including little kids, babies, the elderly, and other noncombatants.

I actually trust Israel more than I trust Earl or some of the MAGAs here.

There seems to be widespread enthusiasm in MAGA-land to hold all Gazans accountable, and just carpet bomb the whole place into a smouldering pile of ash.

I think even Israel is going to restrain itself from massive and indiscriminate carpet bombing of civilians.

 

[martin]

Exactly. There's no mystery here.

If you can understand hate, then you fully understand 1/6, Trumpism, White Supremacy, and all the bigotry in the US.

I think I understand hate well enough. Hate alone does not provide "full understanding" of any of that, not even much partial understanding of it. White supremacy in some people, for example, is mostly explained by personal insecurity where hatred may or may not be an added factor.

With Hamas hatred isn't the "full" answer either since the hatred is not new but the raiding of villages to behead babies, etc., is.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Raised the question - Why the fuck did Hamas do it? To say, "well, they hate Israelis" won't do. They've always hated Israelis. Their self identity for 75 years has been about hated of Israelis. "Condemning the massacre" is not understanding it. I don't know who else is puzzled by it, but I am.

You're not alone. I don't know what their end game is. Did they believe that Israeli would be so devastated that they'd just return all the territory they've confiscated in the 75 years since the creation of their state? Is Hamas a pawn in a larger game? If so, whose and what is their goal(s)?

 

[Cypress]

They didn't do anything to prevent it, either.

I doubt Hamas was visiting the coffee shops and wandering the streets telling civilians what they were going to do. This Hamas operation appears to have been planned and executed under such a veil of secrecy that even the vaunted intelligence service Mossad didn't have a clue.

I also don't think in an authoritarian state women, children, babies, and unarmed civilians can really tell Hamas what to do.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

I actually trust Israel more than I trust Earl or some of the MAGAs here.

There seems to be widespread enthusiasm in MAGA-land to hold all Gazans accountable, and just carpet bomb the whole place into a smouldering pile of ash.

I think even Israel is going to restrain itself from massive and indiscriminate carpet bombing of civilians.

Reichwingers have always been enthusiastic about war, carpet bombing, mass destruction -- as long as they aren't the targets, of course.

Israel preparing to go in on the ground seems to validate your statement about "indiscriminate carpet bombing of civilians." They're telling noncombatants to vacate Gaza City ahead of time. But how do they know that Hamas fighters won't leave too?

 

[martin]

You're not alone. I don't know what their end game is. Did they believe that Israeli would be so devastated that they'd just return all the territory they've confiscated in the 75 years since the creation of their state? Is Hamas a pawn in a larger game? If so, whose and what is their goal(s)?

Hamas as a "pawn in a larger game" is the looming question, I agree. If not then the attack seems only insane.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Hamas as a "pawn in a larger game" is the looming question, I agree. If not then the attack seems only insane.

Nothing good could come of it. Only more death on both sides. I wonder if the thinking was that the Israelis' countermeasures, which are killing civilians, would rile the population up against Israel? But for what purpose? It's not like they are capable or desirous of flooding across the border and taking territory they believe is theirs. The attacks did absolutely nothing to get world opinion on their side, either.

 

[Cypress]

Reichwingers have always been enthusiastic about war, carpet bombing, mass destruction -- as long as they aren't the targets, of course.

Israel preparing to go in on the ground seems to validate your statement about "indiscriminate carpet bombing of civilians." They're telling noncombatants to vacate Gaza City ahead of time. But how do they know that Hamas fighters won't leave too?

They are prone to bloodlust, even though they parade around wearing the 'Christian' label.

Back in the day, there were conservatives on these forums hollering that we should bomb Mecca back to the Stone Age. I trusted their president, George Dumbya Bush to have the intelligence to not even contemplate that.

 

[Cypress]

Nothing good could come of it. Only more death on both sides. I wonder if the thinking was that the Israelis' countermeasures, which are killing civilians, would rile the population up against Israel? But for what purpose? It's not like they are capable or desirous of flooding across the border and taking territory they believe is theirs. The attacks did absolutely nothing to get world opinion on their side, either.

Unfathomable.

Shooting terrified and unarmed civilians in the back as they tried to runaway did nothing to help the image of Hamas. Their shocking acts of barbarity can only hurt whatever legitimate grievances Palestinians have.

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

They are prone to bloodlust, even though they parade around wearing the 'Christian' label.

Back in the day, there were conservatives on these forums hollering that we should bomb Mecca back to the Stone Age. I trusted their president, George Dumbya Bush to have the intelligence to not even contemplate that.

I don't support violence.

 

[martin]

Nothing good could come of it. Only more death on both sides. I wonder if the thinking was that the Israelis' countermeasures, which are killing civilians, would rile the population up against Israel? But for what purpose? It's not like they are capable or desirous of flooding across the border and taking territory they believe is theirs. The attacks did absolutely nothing to get world opinion on their side, either.

The larger game would be regional war.

 

[Cypress]

Perhaps you missed, "Elections haven’t been held in Gaza since 2006, but polling from March 2023 found that 45% of Gazans would back Hamas should there be a vote, ahead of Fatah at 32%."

Thanks for proving my point. Again.

No election has been held since 2006, and 45 percent is a minority of Gazans, meaning the other 55 percent didn't support Hamas.

You should whip out the dictionary and familiarize yourself with the terms majority and plurality.

 

[domer76]

If that were true then why did Gazans elect Hamas? How did Hamas train and collect weapons for up to two years to prepare for this massacre?

The fact remains Islamic radicals have sought to murder Jews since 1948. Not a single President has ever been able to establish a lasting peace in the region.

The Two-State Solution is a fantasy since it was the very first plan offered, and both the Palestinians and their Arab allies refused it.

https://archive.nytimes.com/learnin...ns-palestine-allowing-for-creation-of-israel/
Nov. 29, 1947 | U.N. Partitions Palestine, Allowing for Creation of Israel
On Nov. 29, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution calling for Palestine to be partitioned between Arabs and Jews, allowing for the formation of the Jewish state of Israel.

Since 1917, Palestine had been under the control of Britain, which supported the creation of a Jewish state in the holy land. Sympathy for the Jewish cause grew during the genocide of European Jews during the Holocaust. In 1946, the Palestine issue was brought before the newly created United Nations, which drafted a partition plan.

The last election was in 2006.

I don’t need a history lesson on the formation of Israel.

Take a look at the conditions in which the Gazans are forced to live. At the hands of Israel. Then ask yourself why would the Gazans want to revolt against that kind of oppression.

 

[domer76]

Thanks for proving my point. Again.

No election has been held since 2006, and 45 percent is a minority of Gazans, meaning the other 55 percent didn't support Hamas.

You should whip out the dictionary and familiarize yourself with the terms majority and plurality.

Another thing these guys are apparently unaware of is that about 45% of the population is 15 and under. A nation of kids who have lived their entire lives in an outdoor prison.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Unfathomable.

Shooting terrified and unarmed civilians in the back as they tried to runaway did nothing to help the image of Hamas. Their shocking acts of barbarity can only hurt whatever legitimate grievances Palestinians have.

Yep. I can't speak for others, obviously, but any tiny amount of sympathy I might have once had for them* is gone now.

* Mostly due to the curse of trying to see both sides of an issue.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

The larger game would be regional war.

That's my fear.

 

[Lionfish]

Thanks for proving my point. Again.

No election has been held since 2006, and 45 percent is a minority of Gazans, meaning the other 55 percent didn't support Hamas.

You should whip out the dictionary and familiarize yourself with the terms majority and plurality.

What % of Americans supported Brandon in 2020?