The Sound of Freedom

Doc Dutch said:
Stone is middle-aged. At some point he should grow up and man up.
Click to expand...


I think that the ones who actually can usually do,

but at the same time,

I will not claim special expertise on the subject.



I will admit that now,

our kids certainly take care of us

a lot more than we take care of them;

as they should--we've already transferred most of our assets to them

to mitigate aggravations with probate.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Actually, Oom, I'm obviously no fan of the Stoner, but I can say this.

I have no problem with exploiting parents who drag us onto this stupid planet
with our not even getting a vote on the matter.

I certainly exploited mine.
I fully expected my offspring to get what they could from me as well.

Isn't that what they mean by "the circle of life?"
Click to expand...

My stepmother, being a pious Christian, is using her wealth in the genuinely Christian way: she is supporting charitable causes and helping people in need during these last years of her life. She doesn't have biological children, I am her surviving family, and my inheritance in her will is fairly modest. And I am totally okay with that. There are people and causes that can benefit from her wealth more than me. "I do not want what I haven't got" - Sinead O'Connor.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
I think that the ones who actually can usually do,

but at the same time,

I will not claim special expertise on the subject.

I will admit that now,

our kids certainly take care of us

a lot more than we take care of them;

as they should--we've already transferred most of our assets to them

to mitigate aggravations with probate.
Click to expand...

Usually. Stone may not be the brightest bulb on the family tree, but he's not a retard either. He has a choice and he's made his.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Usually. Stone may not be the brightest bulb on the family tree, but he's not a retard either. He has a choice and he's made his.
Click to expand...

I don't know for sure about "choices,"
but I do believe that they could actually exist
despite the impossibility of proving same scientifically.

I'll not claim to "know" what I merely believe.
I only know what I actually know.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
I don't know for sure about "choices,"
but I do believe that they could actually exist
despite the impossibility of proving same scientifically.

I'll not claim to "know" what I merely believe.
I only know what I actually know.
Click to expand...

Disagreed since normal people have the ability to make choices based upon their genetics, experience and conscious mind (free will). Sure, they may know what should be done but choose to be a chickenshit or, as in Stone's case, lazy, but that fact remains they know they have choices. Which choices they make is up to them.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Disagreed since normal people have the ability to make choices based upon their genetics, experience and conscious mind (free will). Sure, they may know what should be done but choose to be a chickenshit or, as in Stone's case, lazy, but that fact remains they know they have choices. Which choices they make is up to them.
Click to expand...

Well, that's the difference between us in a nutshell, Oom.

Free will is scientifically unproven, and likely unprovable.

We can believe in it or not--either choice is equally valid--

but because we can't prove it, we can't know for sure.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Well, that's the difference between us in a nutshell, Oom.

Free will is scientifically unproven, and likely unprovable.

We can believe in it or not--either choice is equally valid--

but because we can't prove it, we can't know for sure.
Click to expand...

You are free to blame all of your bad decisions on other people, neef. It's pretty common on JPP.

As stated previously, we are each products of our genetics, experiences and conscious mind. Our genetics and experiences limit our ability to think clearly, but it's our conscious mind that allows us to choose, even if only within narrow parameters. Imagine a dog on a 20 foot leash next to his doghouse. He has shelter, food and limited freedom. It'd be wrong to say he has no freedom just as it would be wrong to say he's completely free.

Like most things, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle and, as JPP often proves, varies by individual due to mental health along with experiences and genetics. I don't know if you recall the Polish Retard from last year. You and I can agree his Free Will is very limited due to genetics.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/free-will
Do believers in free will make decisions differently?
There is limited evidence that people who believe more strongly in free will may tend to perceive at least some kinds of choices—such as buying electronics or deciding what to watch on TV—as easier to make, and that they may enjoy making choices more.

What concepts from psychology are similar to belief in free will?
Two concepts from psychology that bear similarity to belief in free will are “locus of control” and “self-efficacy.” Locus of control refers to a person’s belief about how much power he has over his life—how important factors like intentions and hard work seem to be compared to external forces such as good luck or the actions of others. Self-efficacy is a person’s sense of her ability to perform at a certain level so as to influence events that affect them. While all of these concepts relate to the factors that steer a person’s life, they are distinct—one can doubt that humans have free will, for example, and still be confident in her ability to win a competition.
Click to expand...
 
Jarod said:
They need to pretend there is a conspiracy against them for some reason.
Click to expand...

IMO, it's because they are both paranoid and not-too-bright. Notice the ones making these claims. Are they highly educated? Rational? Constantly angry? Do they frequently threaten violence against half of American voters?
 
Doc Dutch said:
You are free to blame all of your bad decisions on other people, neef.
Click to expand...

I must have made a bad decision at some time or other, Oom,
and I wish that I had documented it so that we could discuss its cause.

if I were to transfer blame, I obviously couldn't transfer to other people who don't have free will either,
so I instead choose to assume that blame or guilt aren't in the equation.


I always go back to this:

Any deviation from cause and effect would be a deviation from the natural.
Science is about cause and effect.
Free will, therefore, would have to be supernatural.
I have never experienced anything that appeared supernatural to me,
so while I obviously cannot be certain, I doubt the existence of the supernatural and thus the existence of free will.

I cannot declare its non-existence with certainty either.

I also know that like everybody else, I act as if free will actually exists.

What I cannot do is demonstrate how my acting as if free will actually exists
has anything to do with it actually existing [or my having the free will to act that way].

In the end, it comes down to a couple of things.

First, you seem to WANT free will to exist while I honestly don't care either way.
You don't want to be a meat robot. I don't care quite as much.

Second, we have different basic concepts of both the two phenomena of believing and knowing.

We arrive at different conclusions, but it seems that we've discussed it enough by now
to at least understand how we each view the matter.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
I must have made a bad decision at some time or other, Oom,
and I wish that I had documented it so that we could discuss its cause.

if I were to transfer blame, I obviously couldn't transfer to other people who don't have free will either,
so I instead choose to assume that blame or guilt aren't in the equation.
Click to expand...

Key word "choose". If you don't have a choice, you don't have free will. If you do have a choice, then you do have free will...even if the parameters of choices are a narrow selection.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Key word "choose". If you don't have a choice, you don't have free will. If you do have a choice, then you do have free will...even if the parameters of choices are a narrow selection.
Click to expand...

I stipulated that I act as if free will exists,
and should have also noted that
I use language that suggests that free will exists.

That's how we all learned to speak.

As to whether it exists or not,

I'm simply far less certain than you are,

and also, at the same time,

if free will in fact doesn't exist,

I wouldn't view that in the same negative light that you perhaps might.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
I stipulated that I act as if free will exists,
and should have also noted that
I use language that suggests that free will exists.

That's how we all learned to speak.

As to whether it exists or not,

I'm simply far less certain than you are,

and also, at the same time,

if free will in fact doesn't exist,

I wouldn't view that in the same negative light that you perhaps might.
Click to expand...

As noted in this lengthy thread, not all JPP members agree nor act as if Free Will exists: https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...stern-philosophy-says-the-self-is-an-illusion

IMO, those that don't have genetic or mental defects.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Read the thread or not, neef. Your choice. :)
Click to expand...



If it were actually my choice, Oom, I'd break this ridiculous JPP habit altogether.
And so, I somewhat suspect, would you.

I wish that I had the energy to do more productive things with my remaining time
but I didn't pace myself
and wore myself out fighting for the proletariat.

At least I'll die with a clear conscience--assuming free will actually does turn out to be real.:cool:
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
It's a classic fascist tactic to get people believe that it's Us vs. Them, with the authoritarian leader assuring them that only he can fix it.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Ancient authoritarian rule; divide and conquor...even if it's your own people. LOL

Corporations maintain control over their employees and quashed unions by dividing them against each other. Part of that is just good behaviorism; encouraging employee groups to compete with each other will produce more efficient employee groups. After a certain point, it becomes more about control instead of group efficiency. Sad.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top