EXPERTS ARE PREDICTING AN ‘EXPLOSION’ OF INEXPENSIVE ELECTRIC CARS

[QP!]

Ignorant? Mass production means nothing without infrastructure. You appear to be the ignorant one.

Ya that is why they are is a consistent build out of infrastructure to meet that need.

SOmething you obviously did not know.

The ignorance is yours and not mine.

 

[Lionfish]

They plug them in!

You are ignorant on so many fronts.

 

[Lionfish]

Think about 90% of the populations driving patterns.

Wake and drive to work (car is fully charged).
Leave car at work (car gets fully charged if needed)
Back and forth for errands like groceries, etc. (car leaves home fully charged and charges when it returns)


Unlike an ICE vehicle where you will just keep going until you need to get gas, the vast majority of people driving EV's will never need to make a specific stop to charge unless on a weekend travel outing.

They are the perfect city commuter work cars for 90%+ of the population.

Few here are saying they should not be produced, I am saying they are a novelty at this point in time and if you want to drive your Prius to get a Starbucks for a double latte, go for it, just do not force me to participate in your decision.
I am happy to allow you choose to drive whatever you like with the understanding thatt you are doing nothing to "save the planet"

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

You are ignorant on so many fronts.

Because some TRUMPTARDED IDIOT LIKE YOU say's so?

 

[QP!]

Few here are saying they should not be produced, I am saying they are a novelty at this point in time and if you want to drive your Prius to get a Starbucks for a double latte, go for it, just do not force me to participate in your decision.
I am happy to allow you choose to drive whatever you like with the understanding thatt you are doing nothing to "save the planet"

Oh we have lots of conservatards here mocking the idea that is even viable, let alone 'should' be produced.

I know many people who have had Tesla's for years, and who have cut their gasoline budget to near zero, each year, as they are the typical work and local commuters.

Currently AVERAGE annual gasoline costs per citizen across the US are $5000. Many people pay more than that.

Do you see any of the derps here figure that in to the cost calculation of owning an EV? I have a good friend who is in his 8th year of driving only his two family Tesla's and he has not bought gasoline once in 8 years, other than when he says he travels and rents a car. That is ~$80,000 in savings that go directly to offset the cost of the purchase of the EV's.

 

[Joe Capitalist]

Or a gasoline shortage coupled with super high prices...

Gas cars can overheat when they're stuck in traffic. Not so with EVs.

Another WIN for EVs.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Ehhh.

I hate having to teach you everything on EVERY topic.
Look up the Ford King Ranch versus the base Model F150 and learn. I mean really LEARN.

Yes certain premium models introduced later can and will come in at much higher base points. that is normal to have that in your roster.

What that DOES NOT do, is minimize that cutting the cost of a part b $4000 is a big deal. Especially when you are still this early in a coming mass production wave. Mass production will continue to bring more and more efficiencies and improvements and cost savings.

Automobiles are not cheap. Not sure why you think that is a point. Gasoline on top of Auto's is not cheap.

The base Silverado EV version is going from $40,000 to $60,000 it is YOU that needs a lesson in comprehension.

Aside from that, charging it isn't free, and if you are using public chargers it can be more expensive than gasoline.

 

[QP!]

The base Silverado EV version is going from $40,000 to $60,000 it is YOU that needs a lesson in comprehension.

Aside from that, charging it isn't free, and if you are using public chargers it can be more expensive than gasoline.

And the King Ranch has a range that far exceeds that. So once again you prove stupid and need to learn from me.

And no one is saying 'charging is free', so stay on topic. It does however keep on average $5000 per year, per car in my friends pocket.

Once again the argument is not that an EV will benefit everyone. But for the vast, VAST majority of people who use their vehicles 80% of the time just going back and forth to work and for short trips within city limits, (groceries, etc), they will never need to public charge. They chare at home or at work.

Just like not everyone needs the expense of a King Ranch pick up. Most people are better suited with a small commuter ICE car to get back and forth to work.

If you do not create stupid strawman situations and look at the MASS part of the driving population and what their daily commutes look like, an EV is perfect for that group, and the gas savings alone make these vehicles far more affordable over many years of ownership.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

And the King Ranch has a range that far exceeds that. So once again you prove stupid and need to learn from me.

And no one is saying 'charging is free', so stay on topic. It does however keep on average $5000 per year, per car in my friends pocket.

Once again the argument is not that an EV will benefit everyone. But for the vast, VAST majority of people who use their vehicles 80% of the time just going back and forth to work and for short trips within city limits, (groceries, etc), they will never need to public charge. They chare at home or at work.

Just like not everyone needs the expense of a King Ranch pick up. Most people are better suited with a small commuter ICE car to get back and forth to work.

If you do not create stupid strawman situations and look at the MASS part of the driving population and what their daily commutes look like, an EV is perfect for that group, and the gas savings alone make these vehicles far more affordable over many years of ownership.

You are missing the point, and just using a red herring to change the subject. The original premise of this thread was:

EXPERTS ARE PREDICTING AN ‘EV-PLOSION’ OF CHEAP, ELECTRIC CARS — HERE’S HOW LOW PRICES COULD GET

I claim the "experts" are wrong. The real world pricing of EV's is not going down, it's going up. That's primarily due to the materials involved in making them becoming more scarce and expensive, particularly the battery components.

Automakers are jacking up prices on electric vehicles to bake in rising materials costs
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/21/ele...e-at-tesla-rivian-gm-and-other-carmakers.html

It isn't just GM that's raising prices, they are rising across the board for all manufacturers of EV's.

EV prices are going in the wrong direction
https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/24/23319794/ev-price-increase-used-cars-analysis-iseecars

Rising Lithium Prices Could Stop The EV Revolution
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesm...ev-revolution--or-could-they/?sh=5944e9a07125

It makes sense that if the materials that go into an EV are becoming harder to source and more expensive, the price of the vehicle would rise as a result. That's the real world, not speculation like Joke Communist's article in the OP does. Worse, his article includes government bribes (aka subsidies) as part of the cost reduction. This is an utter and complete lie. All subsidies do is shift costs, they don't reduce them.
I, for one, see no reason I should have to pay for your car. Pay for it yourself.
Of course, the reason for the subsidies is that if they didn't exist virtually nobody would buy an EV.

Also, even with subsidies, many EV manufacturers are going under simply because they can't get buyers even with them. The latest to go under is Lordstown Motors.

Lordstown Motors files for bankruptcy and sues former partner Foxconn
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/27/busi...ankruptcy-foxconn-lawsuit-intl-hnk/index.html

Rivian is teetering on the brink of bankruptcy too.

Elon Musk says that Lucid and Rivian are tracking toward bankruptcy
https://electrek.co/2022/06/14/elon...bankrupt. They are tracking toward bankruptcy.

Truck manufacturer Nikola may well be next.

The Big Three automakers are subsidizing EV's by making profit off of ICE sales. They and companies like Tesla are relying on government fiats and subsidies to prop up the EV market. Without those, they'd all be finished in the EV market because few people want one and that isn't likely to change any time soon.

 

[QP!]

You are missing the point, and just using a red herring to change the subject. The original premise of this thread was:



I claim the "experts" are wrong. The real world pricing of EV's is not going down, it's going up. That's primarily due to the materials involved in making them becoming more scarce and expensive, particularly the battery components.

Automakers are jacking up prices on electric vehicles to bake in rising materials costs
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/21/ele...e-at-tesla-rivian-gm-and-other-carmakers.html

It isn't just GM that's raising prices, they are rising across the board for all manufacturers of EV's.

EV prices are going in the wrong direction
https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/24/23319794/ev-price-increase-used-cars-analysis-iseecars

Rising Lithium Prices Could Stop The EV Revolution
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesm...ev-revolution--or-could-they/?sh=5944e9a07125

It makes sense that if the materials that go into an EV are becoming harder to source and more expensive, the price of the vehicle would rise as a result. That's the real world, not speculation like Joke Communist's article in the OP does. Worse, his article includes government bribes (aka subsidies) as part of the cost reduction. This is an utter and complete lie. All subsidies do is shift costs, they don't reduce them.
I, for one, see no reason I should have to pay for your car. Pay for it yourself.
Of course, the reason for the subsidies is that if they didn't exist virtually nobody would buy an EV.

Also, even with subsidies, many EV manufacturers are going under simply because they can't get buyers even with them. The latest to go under is Lordstown Motors.

Lordstown Motors files for bankruptcy and sues former partner Foxconn
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/27/busi...ankruptcy-foxconn-lawsuit-intl-hnk/index.html

Rivian is teetering on the brink of bankruptcy too.

Elon Musk says that Lucid and Rivian are tracking toward bankruptcy
https://electrek.co/2022/06/14/elon...bankrupt. They are tracking toward bankruptcy.

Truck manufacturer Nikola may well be next.

The Big Three automakers are subsidizing EV's by making profit off of ICE sales. They and companies like Tesla are relying on government fiats and subsidies to prop up the EV market. Without those, they'd all be finished in the EV market because few people want one and that isn't likely to change any time soon.

FLOL. at "I claim the experts are wrong".

Every time you speak you expose your massive ignorance of almost all topics.

Here you prove you have no clue how going from "Novel >>>>> Mass Production" works and how at the beginnings of that curve costs can go up, but over time they come way down."

You are just so incredibly ignorant compared to many of the others i think are trolling but you i think are just this stupid.


Think of the ICE journey to mass production. Do you think at any stage pre Mass production, costs were coming down? No one who made tires especially for cars. NO one who made engines specific to cars. No where to get gasoline on a cars typical journey.


As a result of mass production all of these improvements FOLLOWED, making every stage of ICE Auto ownership better, cheaper and more convenient.

You would look at all of that and call it 'magical thinking' that mass production would spawn all of those benefits for ICE vehicles and you would have argued against the "experts" telling them "you think they are wrong".

FLOL. I wish i thought you were trolling, like others here, but i believe you are the protype conservatard who just fights any and all advancement believing if you cannot prove something to be more profitable and practical today then you never go down that path.

 

[Joe Capitalist]

FLOL. at "I claim the experts are wrong".

Every time you speak you expose your massive ignorance of almost all topics.

Here you prove you have no clue how going from "Novelle >>>>> Mass Production" works and how at the beginnings of that curve costs can go up, but over time they come way down."

You are just so incredibly ignorant compared to many of the others i think are trolling but you i think are just this stupid.


Think of the ICE journey to mass production. Do you think at any stage pre Mass production, costs were coming down? No one who made tires especially for cars. NO one who made engines specific to cars. No where to get gasoline on a cars typical journey.


As a result of mass production all of these improvements FOLLOWED, making every stage of ICE Auto ownership better, cheaper and more convenient.

You would look at all of that and call it 'magical thinking' that mass production would spawn all of those benefits for ICE vehicles and you would have argued against the "experts" telling them "you think they are wrong".

FLOL. I wish i thought you were trolling, like others here, but i believe you are the protype conservatard who just fights any and all advancement believing if you cannot prove something to be more profitable and practical today then you never go down that path.

She's not trolling. She actually believes the bullshit she spews. Isn't that tragic?

 

[QP!]

She's not trolling. She actually believes the bullshit she spews. Isn't that tragic?

She is Marjorie Greene.

There is a video of Marjorie Greene attending some briefing with the top Intelligence Experts and Top Military experts and when they offer their 'expert' opinions, Marjorie lays into them as wrong and lying. She was no problem also telling all the world leading 'experts they are wrong', because she has read about 'space lasers' and other things on the internet.

MTG is another example, imo, of a person so stupid they are incapable of recognizing they are stupid and thus shutting up and letting others lead and talk. There are many 'dumb' people who are smart enough to know to shut up when an expert is present and telling you how to do something. And that is why they are not stupid. Dumb you can manage by deferring to smarter people. Stupid you cannot as you think you know better.

It is increasingly clear T.A Gardner, is that type of MTG stupid.

Whenever we talk about ANY advancement she judges by what is possible today only (all the costs and inputs, etc) and calls any future potential benefits 'wishful thinking' that she says means the technology should not be pursued.

Oh... you want to build expensive ICE automobiles Henry Ford? It is wishful thinking there will be a network of roads. Gas stations all across the country. Or mass adoption coupled with decreasing costs. Those things do not exist today so you are wrong to build them. Do not listen to your 'experts as i would tell you they are wrong'. These horse and buggies are the proven technology.


It is a conservative mindset that would stop every advancement before it starts, but after a technology launches, gains traction and works, and all the benefits later flow, they refuse to acknowledge the very same reasoning they are using to try and stop TODAYS new technology, would have stopped that PAST advancement, if they had the power.

 

[Lionfish]

Oh we have lots of conservatards here mocking the idea that is even viable, let alone 'should' be produced.

I know many people who have had Tesla's for years, and who have cut their gasoline budget to near zero, each year, as they are the typical work and local commuters.

Currently AVERAGE annual gasoline costs per citizen across the US are $5000. Many people pay more than that.

Do you see any of the derps here figure that in to the cost calculation of owning an EV? I have a good friend who is in his 8th year of driving only his two family Tesla's and he has not bought gasoline once in 8 years, other than when he says he travels and rents a car. That is ~$80,000 in savings that go directly to offset the cost of the purchase of the EV's.

Thanks for all the great info. Are you saying that there is no cost to charge an EV?
Tell me why my agency wants $900 more to insure over my ICE.
Then we can talk about the states that charrge lic and registration based on the value of the vehicle.
After that, we can discuss states that charge their tabs based on vehicle weight.
Then we might go into the cost and availability of replacement body parts.

See, these things are great for some and not so great for many. Some day they might be a very viable alternative, until then, stop shoving them down our throats.

 

[Into the Night]

Producing 'more' only reduces some of the price pressure.

There is no such thing as 'price pressure'.

It does not eliminate it unless the US Nationalizes all Oil and Gas

Unconstitutional. This is communism.

and considers it 'the peoples' and makes it immune to global price pressure.

Price controls don't work. You simply want to repeat Carter's idiocy that cause long gas lines.

You know ALL the big oil and gas companies are global right?

No. There are a lot of oil and gas companies that are not global or even national.

That is Saudi turns off their pipe, then prices shoot up all over the world,

Very temporary, and the end result is that the Saudis don't sell any oil or make any profit at it.

meaning more profit for US Oil sold into those markets, over being sold in the US.

There is no difference in prices between exported oil and domestically used oil.

As that price gap grows more and more US Oil and Gas will follow it.

No 'price gap'. None can form, unless government attempts price controls (which never work).

That is, unless you believe US Oil and Gas is altruistic and will refuse to sell into those higher profit markets, because they are ok losing profits to keep money in the US citizens pocket.
You do not believe big Oil and Gas are altruistic do you? YOu understand how global markets operate right?

You obviously don't understand how ANY markets work, commie.

 

[QP!]

Thanks for all the great info.

You're welcome

Are you saying that there is no cost to charge an EV?

Nope. Have not said or suggested that.

Tell me why my agency wants $900 more to insure over my ICE.

Why would i explain that to you? Have i commented on that?

Then we can talk about the states that charrge lic and registration based on the value of the vehicle.
After that, we can discuss states that charge their tabs based on vehicle weight.
Then we might go into the cost and availability of replacement body parts.

See, these things are great for some and not so great for many.

i agree and have made that point. Great for some (typical city work commuter), but not great for all.
Same for ICE vehicles. Great for some and not great for all.

Some day they might be a very viable alternative, until then, stop shoving them down our throats.

I don't control any of this so not sure who you are speaking to. Advancement is coming whether you like it or not, driven by a combination of Private company initiatives and gov't. The way MOST major new innovations enter the market. You can cry about that if you want, just don't expect me to care.

 

[Into the Night]

Ehhh.

I hate having to teach you everything on EVERY topic.

You can't teach what you do not know.

Look up the Ford King Ranch versus the base Model F150 and learn. I mean really LEARN.

Both are gasoline vehicles.

Yes certain premium models introduced later can and will come in at much higher base points. that is normal to have that in your roster.

So? He's not talking about that. Pay attention.

What that DOES NOT do, is minimize that cutting the cost of a part b $4000 is a big deal. Especially when you are still this early in a coming mass production wave. Mass production will continue to bring more and more efficiencies and improvements and cost savings.

What part is $4000??

Automobiles are not cheap.

Gasoline cars are a HELL OF LOT cheaper than EVs of the same size. You seem to be trying to pivot away from this point.

Not sure why you think that is a point. Gasoline on top of Auto's is not cheap.

It is, except where governments impose ban, limitations, heavy taxes, and burdensome regulations.

EVs cost two or even three times what an equivalent gasoline car costs. Indeed, buying a gasoline car AND all the gas being used to travel the same distance is STILL cheaper than an EV and the cost of charging it.
Gasoline cars are easily maintained too, requiring only commonly available tools. EVs require specialized shops and very expensive tools just to handle the batteries safely.
A single battery damaged in an accident totals the car (and probably starts a fire at some point).
Gasoline cars are much more resilient to damage. They can often just repaired at any body shop (can't do THAT with an EV!), and put safely on the road again. Insurance rates for EVs are much higher for this and the higher cost of the EV.

EVs waste energy too, using almost twice the energy of a gasoline car of the same size and going the same distance. Most energy used to charge the EV goes up as waste heat.
EVs still require fuel to run. Most power plants use coal or natural gas. Moving the 'tail pipe' of the car further away does not make it disappear.

EVs do not do well in the market without government mandates and subsidies. There is a reason.

Lithium is non-renewable. It's price is only going to go up, making the EV even MORE expensive. Gasoline, however, is an oil product...a renewable fuel.

Lithium ion battery packs are heavy, reducing useful payload of the vehicle. That's why you don't see them on trains, large trucks, or aircraft. The battery pack of a typical short range Model 3 Tesla weighs over 1000lbs! That makes this car heavier than my TRUCK! My truck can tow trailers loaded with another car or even a tractor. The Model 3 can't tow...anything...not even an empty utility trailer. Trying to tow with an F150E reduces it's range so as to make it utterly useless.

 

[Into the Night]

FLOL. at "I claim the experts are wrong".

Your 'experts' are wrong.

Every time you speak you expose your massive ignorance of almost all topics.

Bulverism fallacy.

Here you prove you have no clue how going from "Novel >>>>> Mass Production" works and how at the beginnings of that curve costs can go up, but over time they come way down."

EVs are already massed produced. There is no 'beginning of the curve'. Buzzword fallacy.

You are just so incredibly ignorant compared to many of the others i think are trolling but you i think are just this stupid.

Bulverism fallacy. Insult fallacy.

Think of the ICE journey to mass production.

Okay.
Internal combustion engines first started appearing as stationary auto engines and were used in businesses, farms, and ranches everywhere. Most in cities ran on natural gas, but other ran on gasoline.

Do you think at any stage pre Mass production, costs were coming down?

Yes. Henry Ford was particularly good at this, cementing Ford a place in history forever.

No one who made tires especially for cars.

Yes they did. The rubber tire appeared before the first gasoline car by about 40 years. Cars, wagons, carriages, and other vehicles were already using the new tire.

NO one who made engines specific to cars.

Yes they did. Internal and external combustion engines were most commonplace by the time the car was invented.

No where to get gasoline on a cars typical journey.

Gasoline was most commonplace to obtain already, due stationary auto engines in use everywhere. These engines ran factories, pumped water, and a myriad other uses.

As a result of mass production all of these improvements FOLLOWED, making every stage of ICE Auto ownership better, cheaper and more convenient.

Stationary auto engines were already mass produced BEFORE the car was invented.

You would look at all of that and call it 'magical thinking' that mass production would spawn all of those benefits for ICE vehicles and you would have argued against the "experts" telling them "you think they are wrong".

Your 'experts' are wrong. They are not experts.

FLOL. I wish i thought you were trolling, like others here, but i believe you are the protype conservatard who just fights any and all advancement believing if you cannot prove something to be more profitable and practical today then you never go down that path.

EVs are not an 'advancement'. They've existed since well before gasoline cars. They are NOT profitable. The only reason they are selling in the numbers they are today is because of government interference through subsidies (communism) and mandates (fascism).

EVs are much more expensive, use almost twice as much energy, are much more difficult and expensive to maintain, carry a serious fire hazard from easily damaged batteries, are much heavier which reduces useful payload, and carry the inconvenience of long charging times to 'refuel'.

 

[Into the Night]

She is Marjorie Greene.

There is a video of Marjorie Greene attending some briefing with the top Intelligence Experts and Top Military experts and when they offer their 'expert' opinions, Marjorie lays into them as wrong and lying. She was no problem also telling all the world leading 'experts they are wrong', because she has read about 'space lasers' and other things on the internet.

Your 'experts' are wrong. 'Expert' worship. Void reference fallacy.

MTG is another example, imo, of a person so stupid they are incapable of recognizing they are stupid and thus shutting up and letting others lead and talk. There are many 'dumb' people who are smart enough to know to shut up when an expert is present and telling you how to do something. And that is why they are not stupid. Dumb you can manage by deferring to smarter people. Stupid you cannot as you think you know better.

It is increasingly clear T.A Gardner, is that type of MTG stupid.

Whenever we talk about ANY advancement she judges by what is possible today only (all the costs and inputs, etc) and calls any future potential benefits 'wishful thinking' that she says means the technology should not be pursued.

You seem to forget that the car itself was invented by conservatives, and so was the first practical steam engine (used to get water out of mines), telecommunications, computers, cheap steel, cheap aluminum, and even modern road construction techniques.

Oh... you want to build expensive ICE automobiles Henry Ford?

No. He wanted to build cheap ones that anyone could afford. He succeeded at this pretty well, too.

It is wishful thinking there will be a network of roads.

Already existed. Oh...and the automobile didn't NEED roads. It could go anywhere. It still does. There are not even amphibious automobiles. Ones that drive across wastelands of ice and snow, through swamps, over open terrain, etc.

Gas stations all across the country.

Already existed. People purchased this gasoline for their existing auto engines. You can also carry gasoline in cans to fuel their cars and other internal combustion engines. Can't do THAT with an EV!

Or mass adoption coupled with decreasing costs.

Auto engines were already commonplace when the gasoline car was invented.

Those things do not exist today so you are wrong to build them.

They did.

Do not listen to your 'experts as i would tell you they are wrong'.
These horse and buggies are the proven technology.

Yes...there were 'experts' of the day saying just exactly that! Rather like your 'experts' today touting EVs.

It is a conservative mindset that would stop every advancement before it starts,

EVs are not an advancement. It is conservatives that make stuff and invent stuff. They have the expertise to do it. They have the profit motive to do it. They are capitalists.
You have invented NOTHING. You couldn't run a business even be innovative. All you do is whine.

but after a technology launches, gains traction and works, and all the benefits later flow, they refuse to acknowledge the very same reasoning they are using to try and stop TODAYS new technology, would have stopped that PAST advancement, if they had the power.

Despite EVs being around long before the gasoline car, the gasoline car was an almost instant success, quickly replacing the EV. EVs never really did make it in the marketplace, since there was no way to charge them at all unless you lived in the city. Their limited range kept them in the city too, they couldn't go far outside the city if at all. Electrical service didn't really exist outside the city.

 

[Into the Night]

Thanks for all the great info. Are you saying that there is no cost to charge an EV?

He seems to forget that part.

Tell me why my agency wants $900 more to insure over my ICE.

Higher costs to replace the loss, and higher risk of loss.

Then we can talk about the states that charrge lic and registration based on the value of the vehicle.

Yes. That method of taxation hits the EV owner HARD. Some of these States subsidize the EV by charging them a lower tax for the value, in direct violation of the 14th amendment.

After that, we can discuss states that charge their tabs based on vehicle weight.

Yes. Again, the EV is hit hard by such a tax system. Again, some States do not charge EVs this tax or charge them a lower tax for the same weight, again in direction violation of the 14th amendment.

Then we might go into the cost and availability of replacement body parts.

More expensive for the EV, due to the lower volume. Otherwise basically comparable. The high cost of EV maintenance is in the batteries and because of the batteries.

See, these things are great for some and not so great for many. Some day they might be a very viable alternative, until then, stop shoving them down our throats.

They won't be. Lithium is getting more and more expensive, tripling in price since just a few years ago (it has been as high as SIX times the price, such as during most of 2022).

People that make EVs are trying to keep the same price (or even trying to lower them) by reducing the size of the battery pack, reducing the range of the car.

You are basically correct here on one point though:

If someone wants to buy an EV despite their problems, that's their business and their money. The problem is government interference in the form of subsidies (which is just communism) and mandates (which is fascism).
Government has NO BUSINESS interfering with energy or automotive markets.

 

[Into the Night]

You're welcome

Nope. Have not said or suggested that.

Yes you have, liar.

Why would i explain that to you? Have i commented on that?

No. You conveniently ignore it.

i agree and have made that point. Great for some (typical city work commuter), but not great for all.
Same for ICE vehicles. Great for some and not great for all.

Yet you support mandates and subsidies.

I don't control any of this so not sure who you are speaking to. Advancement is coming whether you like it or not, driven by a combination of Private company initiatives and gov't. The way MOST major new innovations enter the market. You can cry about that if you want, just don't expect me to care.

EVs are not an advancement. Again, you are supporting mandates and subsidies. The government invents nothing. ALL inventions are done by individuals. Capitalism is a major factor driving inventions. Communism doesn't invent or innovate. It steals wealth. Fascism doesn't invent or innovate. It steals wealth.

You are ignoring history, ignoring physics, and making shit up.