EXPERTS ARE PREDICTING AN ‘EXPLOSION’ OF INEXPENSIVE ELECTRIC CARS

[LurchAddams]

Yes, it is because the government is forcing this. There is no other reason. If as a manufacturer you knew--KNEW--that if you didn't switch to battery powered cars, or whatever, you could no longer sell your current product line in 8 to 10 years, what would you do? You'd switch to battery powered cars. That's the situation, and there's no way to deny it.

The government cannot force corporations to do anything. It's the other way around. Politicians bow to the whim of corporate lobbyists, especially Republicans - that's why corporations received all those draconian tax cuts under trump and trump ran up an $8 trillion deficit.

 

[Joe Capitalist]

FORD’S PLAN TO BUILD NEW, ULTRA-EFFICIENT BATTERIES IN THE US MEANS EVS WILL BE GETTING MUCH, MUCH CHEAPER: ‘THIS IS A BIG DEAL’
The announcement comes just after Ford won the 2023 Truck of the Year for its electric truck.
In February, Ford announced that it will build a factory in Michigan to produce affordable lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries for its electric vehicles, per the MIT Technology Review.
Most lithium batteries use additional metals, like nickel and cobalt, to help them store energy. But most of these metals are rare and expensive. LFP batteries use ordinary iron instead — a much more affordable alternative. According to MIT, batteries of this type are about 20% cheaper on average.*

 

[Joe Capitalist]

The government cannot force corporations to do anything. It's the other way around. Politicians bow to the whim of corporate lobbyists, especially Republicans - that's why corporations received all those draconian tax cuts under trump and trump ran up an $8 trillion deficit.

California has had smog problems for decades and their state government has customized their emissions laws to be more strict to deal with the smog. That's why they're pushing for EVs over gas cars. Butthurt terry wants you to think that ALL governments are doing this but of course, they are not and butthurt terry loses this argument in embarrassing fashion.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

FORD’S PLAN TO BUILD NEW, ULTRA-EFFICIENT BATTERIES IN THE US MEANS EVS WILL BE GETTING MUCH, MUCH CHEAPER: ‘THIS IS A BIG DEAL’
The announcement comes just after Ford won the 2023 Truck of the Year for its electric truck.
In February, Ford announced that it will build a factory in Michigan to produce affordable lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries for its electric vehicles, per the MIT Technology Review.
Most lithium batteries use additional metals, like nickel and cobalt, to help them store energy. But most of these metals are rare and expensive. LFP batteries use ordinary iron instead — a much more affordable alternative. According to MIT, batteries of this type are about 20% cheaper on average.*

So, you're claiming a battery that costs $16,000 instead of $20,000 is going to make a significant difference in the cost of a vehicle that runs $60,000 to $100,000 to buy? Nah. Still way more expensive...

 

[T. A. Gardner]

The government cannot force corporations to do anything. It's the other way around. Politicians bow to the whim of corporate lobbyists, especially Republicans - that's why corporations received all those draconian tax cuts under trump and trump ran up an $8 trillion deficit.

Yes, they can. In this case, the corporations just went along. Their only likely involvement in the process was setting the date for the switch such to give them time to switch. Car manufacturers don't give a shit if they're making EV's or ICE vehicles so long as they make profits off the sales.

 

[Into the Night]

FORD’S PLAN TO BUILD NEW, ULTRA-EFFICIENT BATTERIES IN THE US MEANS EVS WILL BE GETTING MUCH, MUCH CHEAPER: ‘THIS IS A BIG DEAL’
The announcement comes just after Ford won the 2023 Truck of the Year for its electric truck.
In February, Ford announced that it will build a factory in Michigan to produce affordable lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries for its electric vehicles, per the MIT Technology Review.
Most lithium batteries use additional metals, like nickel and cobalt, to help them store energy. But most of these metals are rare and expensive. LFP batteries use ordinary iron instead — a much more affordable alternative. According to MIT, batteries of this type are about 20% cheaper on average.*

Lithium is what is becoming expensive, dude. Currently, it is running at three times of the price it was in 2021 and earlier. It has been as high as SIX times the price (most of 2022).

 

[Into the Night]

Yes, they can. In this case, the corporations just went along. Their only likely involvement in the process was setting the date for the switch such to give them time to switch. Car manufacturers don't give a shit if they're making EV's or ICE vehicles so long as they make profits off the sales.

Heh. You have to remember that Lurch is a socialist. He doesn't understand anything about business or how to run one or the kind of pressure the government puts on them.

 

[Into the Night]

B]FORD’S PLAN TO BUILD NEW, ULTRA-EFFICIENT BATTERIES IN THE US MEANS EVS WILL BE GETTING MUCH, MUCH CHEAPER: ‘THIS IS A BIG DEAL’[/B]
The announcement comes just after Ford won the 2023 Truck of the Year for its electric truck.

That's pretty easy when you are basically the only electric truck. I call this a 'participation award'.

The best selling truck in the world is the Ford F150 gasoline powered truck. Ford just introduced a new V8 design too, to be used in their trucks and larger vehicles. That's a GASOLINE engine, dude.

In February, Ford announced that it will build a factory in Michigan to produce affordable lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries for its electric vehicles, per the MIT Technology Review.
Most lithium batteries use additional metals, like nickel and cobalt, to help them store energy. But most of these metals are rare and expensive. LFP batteries use ordinary iron instead — a much more affordable alternative.

Not that much cheaper, and the batteries are heavier. The major cost is in the lithium, and prices are going up...fast.

According to MIT, batteries of this type are about 20% cheaper on average.*

MIT does not make such statements. Again, you failed to mention the author.

 

[LurchAddams]

California has had smog problems for decades and their state government has customized their emissions laws to be more strict to deal with the smog. That's why they're pushing for EVs over gas cars. Butthurt terry wants you to think that ALL governments are doing this but of course, they are not and butthurt terry loses this argument in embarrassing fashion.

I know. You have to watch him because sometimes when he's losing a debate he'll... wait for it...

Make stuff up

 

[LurchAddams]

Yes, they can. In this case, the corporations just went along. Their only likely involvement in the process was setting the date for the switch such to give them time to switch. Car manufacturers don't give a shit if they're making EV's or ICE vehicles so long as they make profits off the sales.

Well, I took Econ 101 and I learned that it's the market, i.e., consumers that set demand for goods and services..not the government. Sorry.

If corporations are "going along with it" it's for only one reason: To increase their stock price and to make their shareholders happy.

 

[Grokmaster]

EXPERTS ARE PREDICTING AN ‘EV-PLOSION’ OF CHEAP, ELECTRIC CARS — HERE’S HOW LOW PRICES COULD GET

The EV market is booming, and there are a lot of exciting upcoming models. by Mila Dyson*/*May 18, 2023

In 2022, electric vehicle (EV) sales were on the rise but mostly remained popular for buyers with a large budget, with many consumers still finding them too expensive. Several of Tesla’s models were among the most popular EVs across the U.S., and Car and Driver reported it as the bestselling luxury auto brand.
Why 2023 is the year of the EV
Thanks to the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA), many EV buyers will now qualify for all or part of a $7,500 EV tax credit when they go for a new EV. And Tesla and other carmakers have lowered their prices.*
So, as the numbers of EV models available skyrocket and the price of EVs naturally goes down, when the tax credit is considered, many more EVs will soon enter the mainstream, in what Tech Crunch called the “EV-plosion.”
What’re some of the most exciting upcoming electric vehicles?
The EV market is booming, and there are a lot of exciting upcoming models. Many higher-priced EVs don’t qualify for the IRA tax credit — they need to have an MSRP of less than $55,000 unless they’re trucks, vans, or SUVs (which can be eligible at prices up to $80,000). But the growth of the lower-cost EV is electrifying.
One exciting new prospect is the 2024 Chevrolet Equinox EV, which should be relatively affordable with a starting price close to $30,000. Once the $7,500 tax credit is factored in, it would come at a reasonable starting price of $22,500. This compact electric SUV will have an enormous range of 250 miles estimated between charges (or up to 300 miles with higher-priced options), so there is no need for any range anxiety.
The Fisker Ocean is a stylish SUV that its maker has released in Europe and expects to start delivering in the U.S. in June. The base model has an estimated range of 250 miles and a base purchase price of $37,499 — MAGA wets panties.

"EXPLOSION" is a great choice of words, as that is exactly what can happen when an EV battery is over-depleted, which happens every day.

 

[Into the Night]

California has had smog problems for decades

There is no smog problem.
Los Angeles is on the sea in a trapped area that easily develops fog. Combined with desert sands, you get a brown haze. It's not smog.
I've seen the L.A. smogs. This ain't it.

What has changed? The introduction of the EGR system, a simple piece of plumbing and a valve. This lowered the peak temperature of the cylinders and prevents the formation of NOx gases.
Modern FADEC designs are also more efficient at burning fuel than that old carburetor. Less unburned fuel going out the back door...another contributor of smog.

Smog is a combination of low level ozone (some created by the engine, but most created by the action of sunlight on oxygen), NOx gases (particularly NO2), and unburned fuel vapors. You take away one thing, no smog.

Obviously you discard chemistry along with the rest of physics.

and their state government has customized their emissions laws to be more strict to deal with the smog.

Nope. FADEC and EGR did not come about by any law.

That's why they're pushing for EVs over gas cars.

Fascism. Government has no business dictating what kind of car I want to buy and drive, or what kind of energy I want to buy and use.
EVs use about twice as much energy as a gasoline car of the same size going the same distance. EVs are also about 2-3 times more expensive to buy than a gasoline car of the same size, are much more expensive to maintain (requiring specially equipped shops that ain't cheap...essentially everything is a dealer repair), still require fuel to run (most power plants use coal or natural gas to generate power), require a long time to recharge, and put a strain on the seriously overloaded electrical system in California.

Butthurt terry wants you to think that ALL governments are doing this but of course, they are not and butthurt terry loses this argument in embarrassing fashion.

I guess you missed the memo. The 'federal' government wants to force the same insanity of California nationwide.

No...you didn't miss the memo. You mentioned it before. Guess you're just a liar then.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Well, I took Econ 101 and I learned that it's the market, i.e., consumers that set demand for goods and services..not the government. Sorry.

If corporations are "going along with it" it's for only one reason: To increase their stock price and to make their shareholders happy.

You learned wrong then. If the market is controlled by the government as in statist capitalism, socialism, etc., then the government can and does set what goods and services are delivered with consumers having little or no input.

Or, do you think these consumers standing in line to buy bread have set the demand for goods and services such that they can't even buy food?

California's government has passed a law that says starting in 2035 no more ICE vehicles can be sold in California. Given that when that law passed, polls showed roughly 70% of consumers didn't want an EV, and wouldn't buy one. Yet, the state passed a law that in less than 10 years they'd be forced to because that's the only thing that will be available. The car manufacturers only cared that the date was far enough out to let them switch without too much disruption to production. They really don't care if their vehicles cost more to buy or if people don't want one because government is giving the market and consumers no choice.

If the government makes one car, and this is it,

then you either buy this POS that you likely would rather not buy or you buy nothing at all.

 

[Into the Night]

So, you're claiming a battery that costs $16,000 instead of $20,000 is going to make a significant difference in the cost of a vehicle that runs $60,000 to $100,000 to buy? Nah. Still way more expensive...

The cost savings claim is vaporware.

 

[Into the Night]

"EXPLOSION" is a great choice of words, as that is exactly what can happen when an EV battery is over-depleted, which happens every day.

An over depleted Li-ion battery does not explode (unless it's shorted). It burns...about like a firework. The resulting fire totals the car. There is no stopping it.

 

[LurchAddams]

You learned wrong then. If the market is controlled by the government as in statist capitalism, socialism, etc., then the government can and does set what goods and services are delivered with consumers having little or no input.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/8Mtw_DhNyT0/maxresde

Or, do you think these consumers standing in line to buy bread have set the demand for goods and services such that they can't even buy food?

California's [i]government[/i] has passed a law that says starting in 2035 no more ICE vehicles can be sold in California. Given that when that law passed, polls showed roughly 70% of consumers didn't want an EV, and wouldn't buy one. Yet, the state passed a law that in less than 10 years they'd be forced to because that's the only thing that will be available. The car manufacturers only cared that the date was far enough out to let them switch without too much disruption to production. They really don't care if their vehicles cost more to buy or if people don't want one because government is giving the market and consumers no choice.

If the government makes one car, and this is it,

[img]https://www.autotrader.com/wp-conten

then you either buy this POS that you likely would rather not buy or you buy nothing at all.[/QUOTE]

California is one state. Electric vehicles are selling well in all 50. I just left TX and they were selling there, and I'm back in WA now and they're selling here. I know you hate California, but it's only one state.

I didn't "learn wrong". The market sets the demand and price for goods and services. It's the way it's always been and the way it always will be.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

California is one state. Electric vehicles are selling well in all 50. I just left TX and they were selling there, and I'm back in WA now and they're selling here. I know you hate California, but it's only one state.

I didn't "learn wrong". The market sets the demand and price for goods and services. It's the way it's always been and the way it always will be.

14 other states have followed California's lead. Side note: The, what is now called, California Effect is one of the things the framers of the Constitution were very afraid of. That is, that a large state could on its own--a reason California should never have been allowed to set its own environmental standards-- dominate the market and force other states to follow its lead, wanted or not.

Once California mandated the switch, other blue states followed, and now its likely the country will be forced into EV's based on California's diktat from their radical Leftist government.

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/states-banning-sale-gas-powered-vehicles/story?id=88895372
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation...adopting-californias-electric-vehicle-mandate
https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/14/21324552/electric-trucks-buses-clean-air-zero-emissions-states
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2022/0...-mandating-all-electric-cars-by-2035-1281346/

 

[LurchAddams]

14 other states have followed California's lead. Side note: The, what is now called, California Effect is one of the things the framers of the Constitution were very afraid of. That is, that a large state could on its own--a reason California should never have been allowed to set its own environmental standards-- dominate the market and force other states to follow its lead, wanted or not.

Once California mandated the switch, other blue states followed, and now its likely the country will be forced into EV's based on California's diktat from their radical Leftist government.

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/states-banning-sale-gas-powered-vehicles/story?id=88895372
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation...adopting-californias-electric-vehicle-mandate
https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/14/21324552/electric-trucks-buses-clean-air-zero-emissions-states
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2022/0...-mandating-all-electric-cars-by-2035-1281346/

The market sets the demand and price for goods and services. If people didn't want them, manufacturers wouldn't produce them. Also, TX where I just was and watched several EV's sell, first-hand (I was working at a car dealership) is NOT a blue state.

By the way, the Mustang MachE's, even at their huge selling price were flying out of the dealership. We couldn't keep them on the lot they were in such high demand. Ford 150 lightning, same thing. We also sold a Rivian truck for almost 80k (it was a trade).

And again, this was TX, home of Greg Abbott and Ted (Cancun) Cruz.

You're just wrong.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

The market sets the demand and price for goods and services. If people didn't want them, manufacturers wouldn't produce them. Also, TX where I just was and watched several EV's sell, first-hand (I was working at a car dealership) is NOT a blue state.

By the way the Mustang MachE's, even at their huge selling price were flying out of the dealership. We couldn't keep them on the lot they were in such high demand. Ford 150 lightning, same thing. We also sold a Rivian truck for almost 80k (it was a trade).

And again, this was TX, home of Greg Abbott and Ted (Cancun) Cruz.

You're just wrong.

Most Americans Are Not Completely Sold on Electric Vehicles

Americans’ adoption of electric vehicles is proving to be slow, as relatively few currently own one (4%) or are seriously considering purchasing one (12%). Another 43% of U.S. adults say they might consider buying an electric vehicle in the future, while 41% unequivocally say they would not.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/474095/americans-not-completely-sold-electric-vehicles.aspx

That poll was two months ago. People don't want EV's. The government is forcing them on the market and consumers.

 

[LurchAddams]

Most Americans Are Not Completely Sold on Electric Vehicles

Americans’ adoption of electric vehicles is proving to be slow, as relatively few currently own one (4%) or are seriously considering purchasing one (12%). Another 43% of U.S. adults say they might consider buying an electric vehicle in the future, while 41% unequivocally say they would not.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/474095/americans-not-completely-sold-electric-vehicles.aspx

That poll was two months ago. People don't want EV's. The government is forcing them on the market and consumers.

And yet, as I just showed you, they're selling. If consumers didn't want them, manufacturers wouldn't make them and dealerships wouldn't want them on the lot. They're not cheap, either.