We can't afford NOT TO do single payer health care

[LV426]

I know words better than you do.

Apparently not since you don't seem to know what the words "single" and "payor" mean.

I also understand context

I don't think you do understand "context". I think it's another word you don't know, like "single" or "payor".

You're saying that the government should pay the bills

No, I'm saying government should administer the reimbursement to the providers. It's still your money you're paying in premiums via payroll taxes.

which leaves the individual receiving said "health care" out of the loop

You're not in the loop now, so what the fuck are you babbling about?

All costs of your treatment have already been worked out by your provider and your insurer before you even see your doctor.

You can also only go to the providers within your network unless you want to waste your money and pay out of pocket for an out of network provider.

So what "loop" are you talking about here? Because you're not being articulate or coherent.

single American has nothing to so with the funding of their "single payer" healthcare.

They are funding it by paying payroll taxes instead of monthly premiums, so what the fuck are you talking about??

I'm convinced you have no fucking idea how our health care system works, and that you don't seem to want to know.

 

[Concart]

you seem to believe that you're some expert in economics, so what happens when one very large company puts limitations on how their suppliers can do business? for example, walmart/sams club sells bulk items for cheaper because they promise to buy a majority of the suppliers product, so long as the supplier doesn't give competing buyers the same price reduction?

the same happens with the health insurance industry. major insurance companies provide lower costs to select providers, so long as those providers don't accept patients with competing industry players............

congress has the power to regulate interstate commerce and could put an end to that predatory scheme that adversely affects patients, why won't they?

I am also an expert on Medicare Advantage. Works just fine. We have the worst outcomes and the lowest life expectancy of any industrialized nation, and we spend more on health care. So an intelligent person would conclude that our system doesn't work. But not you. Do the math.

You don't understand healthcare at all, so you should probably just STFU. Healthcare expenditures are unique, they are not like other market providers, because people can choose to forgo or delay healthcare. Which in the end causes far worse outcomes. We are also far behind the curve in end of life care. Obama suggested that end of life counseling would lower healthcare costs (because it will), and you fucking morons called it death panels. Ignoring, of course, the fact that there are already death panels, insurance companies call it utilization management.

If you want to debate healthcare, bring it on, pal.

 

[Nordberg]

Our system is ridiculous. We have insurance companies, that have no product. They just come between you and your healthcare. They are for profit, so denying care is good for their bottom line. Our healthcare is far more expensive than other nations and they cover all their people. https://healthsystemsfacts.org/?gcl...IRbLYZiHBIszh5ZuS_BckAqqnGyNPNSRoCs80QAvD_BwE We are at the bottom of industrial countries. Our system is horribly flawed.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

I am also an expert on Medicare Advantage. Works just fine. We have the worst outcomes and the lowest life expectancy of any industrialized nation, and we spend more on health care. So an intelligent person would conclude that our system doesn't work. But not you. Do the math.

You don't understand healthcare at all, so you should probably just STFU. Healthcare expenditures are unique, they are not like other market providers, because people can choose to forgo or delay healthcare. Which in the end causes far worse outcomes. We are also far behind the curve in end of life care. Obama suggested that end of life counseling would lower healthcare costs (because it will), and you fucking morons called it death panels. Ignoring, of course, the fact that there are already death panels, insurance companies call it utilization management.

If you want to debate healthcare, bring it on, pal.

I understand healthcare quite well, from a physicians and nurses POV.................I see you still can't divorce yourself from the idiot idea that i'm somehow in line with the 'right' on everything.........it's pretty sad that you get so triggered by that, that backsliding in to the i'm a trumper pattern is all you have.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Our system is ridiculous. We have insurance companies, that have no product. They just come between you and your healthcare. They are for profit, so denying care is good for their bottom line. Our healthcare is far more expensive than other nations and they cover all their people. https://healthsystemsfacts.org/?gcl...IRbLYZiHBIszh5ZuS_BckAqqnGyNPNSRoCs80QAvD_BwE We are at the bottom of industrial countries. Our system is horribly flawed.

then why do you praise and support a system that does nothing more than make the health insurance companies wealthier????

 

[Concart]

I understand healthcare quite well, from a physicians and nurses POV.................I see you still can't divorce yourself from the idiot idea that i'm somehow in line with the 'right' on everything.........it's pretty sad that you get so triggered by that, that backsliding in to the i'm a trumper pattern is all you have.

So you know nothing about the payer side. Thanks for admitting that, it was obvious to me. If you think you trigger me you have an exaggerated opinion of yourself. Seems you have a habit of putting words in my mouth so you can build your little strawmen. Yes, you align yourself with the right on EVERYTHING including those things that libertarians don't align with them, so calling yourself a libertarian is laughable. You align with the oathkeeper, 3%er, Proud Boys white nationalist traitors. Doesn't really matter what you call yourself. However, those things you claim I've said I never did. Makes you a liar, I suppose, which is no surprise given your lack of character and integrity.

I notice rather than address what I said, you went straight for the adhom. You are ignorant, so trolling is probably the best role for you. Carry on.

 

[Concart]

then why do you praise and support a system that does nothing more than make the health insurance companies wealthier????

Speaking for myself, I don't support it. I want single payer. You don't, but you seem unable to articulate why you don't.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

So you know nothing about the payer side. Thanks for admitting that, it was obvious to me. If you think you trigger me you have an exaggerated opinion of yourself. Seems you have a habit of putting words in my mouth so you can build your little strawmen. Yes, you align yourself with the right on EVERYTHING including those things that libertarians don't align with them, so calling yourself a libertarian is laughable. You align with the oathkeeper, 3%er, Proud Boys white nationalist traitors. Doesn't really matter what you call yourself. However, those things you claim I've said I never did. Makes you a liar, I suppose, which is no surprise given your lack of character and integrity.

I notice rather than address what I said, you went straight for the adhom. You are ignorant, so trolling is probably the best role for you. Carry on.

why is everything 'black and white' to you? is that all your two dimensional mind is capable of?

 

[Concart]

why is everything 'black and white' to you? is that all your two dimensional mind is capable of?

Far from it. You can't even see the nuance. You are simply as dumb as a post. Very hard to get through your concrete brain. I want a single payer system that continues to utilize insurance companies for the 'extras'. Medicare for all. Nothing black and white about that, but you can't see it. I doubt you even understand it. So far, you have PROPOSED nothing. You just constantly whine and complain about things you don't like, but you are completely devoid of solutions.

 

[Ross Dolan]

All me to repeat Frank.

The word you should have used in that sentence, you fucking moron, is allow"...not "all" you fucking moron.

You are a white, broke, welfare collecting democrat. Kill yourself. Now would be good.

I am white, but I am not broke. I did live most of my life at or near the poverty line, but did so by choice. I now am doing just fine financially.

I have never collected welfare...and I am not a Democrat.

I love when you post, because you show just how ignorant the people on the far right can be.

Keep coming back for more, Sucker. I love dishing it out.

 

[Nordberg]

then why do you praise and support a system that does nothing more than make the health insurance companies wealthier????

That of course is total BS. The other nations pay a fraction of the nation's wealth that we do and they cover everybody. They have better healthcare.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

A national health service makes medical insurance obsolete except for the wealthy who may want private services anyway--
which is certainly their right.

"Medicare for All" is an answer, but not THE answer.

It's public funding for private services, a second rate choice.
We need public services as in the UK.

 

[LV426]

I am also an expert on Medicare Advantage. Works just fine. We have the worst outcomes and the lowest life expectancy of any industrialized nation, and we spend more on health care. So an intelligent person would conclude that our system doesn't work. But not you. Do the math.

You don't understand healthcare at all, so you should probably just STFU. Healthcare expenditures are unique, they are not like other market providers, because people can choose to forgo or delay healthcare. Which in the end causes far worse outcomes. We are also far behind the curve in end of life care. Obama suggested that end of life counseling would lower healthcare costs (because it will), and you fucking morons called it death panels. Ignoring, of course, the fact that there are already death panels, insurance companies call it utilization management.

If you want to debate healthcare, bring it on, pal.

Thanks to COVID denialism and this stinking brand of Libertarianism, the US had the largest drop in life expectancy of any nation, and has yet to rebound:

'Live free and die?' The sad state of U.S. life expectancy
Just before Christmas, federal health officials confirmed life expectancy in America had dropped for a nearly unprecedented second year in a row – down to 76 years. While countries all over the world saw life expectancy rebound during the second year of the pandemic after the arrival of vaccines, the U.S. did not.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health...-and-die-the-sad-state-of-u-s-life-expectancy

 

[LV426]

A national health service makes medical insurance obsolete except for the wealthy who may want private services anyway--
which is certainly their right.

"Medicare for All" is an answer, but not THE answer.

It's public funding for private services, a second rate choice.
We need public services as in the UK.

Unlike every other health care system in the world, ours focuses on profits and not outcomes.

We are the only country in the world where life expectancy has declined after the vaccines were introduced.

Our health care system doesn't reward doctors who cure people, it rewards doctors who keep patients sick because treating the symptoms is more profitable than curing the disease.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

Unlike every other health care system in the world, ours focuses on profits and not outcomes.

We are the only country in the world where life expectancy has declined after the vaccines were introduced.

Our health care system doesn't reward doctors who cure people, it rewards doctors who keep patients sick because treating the symptoms is more profitable than curing the disease.

If we keep medicine in the private sector, it has to behave exactly the same as the rest of the private sector.
Any other expectation would be illogical.

If we want change, we must remove medicine from the private sector and embrace socialized medicine.

 

[Saint Guinefort]

If we keep medicine in the private sector, it has to behave exactly the same as the rest of the private sector.
Any other expectation would be illogical.

If we want change, we must remove medicine from the private sector and embrace socialized medicine.

In America we sacrifice our children to the Second Amendment on a weekly basis. We consider healthcare something you win like a lottery. We have the most bizarre view of how to do things it beggars the imagination.

 

[LV426]

If we keep medicine in the private sector, it has to behave exactly the same as the rest of the private sector.
Any other expectation would be illogical.

If we want change, we must remove medicine from the private sector and embrace socialized medicine.

Totally agree.

There are just some parts of the economy that shouldn't be run for profit...health care is one of those. I'd also include education and energy.

Drug companies, medical providers, and insurance companies aren't the ones who start research on new drugs...that is almost always the NIH. Those companies piggyback off the work the NIH does.

Most drug companies spend less than 10% of their budget on R&D, but will spend upwards of 40% of their budget on marketing and advertising.

 

[Nordberg]

Our system puts the handling cost of healthcare on our companies. Large companies have huge staffs taking care of health insurance. That makes them less competitive.
If you want to change jobs, you have to factor in the healthcare gap. Don't get injured or sick at the wrong time. You may never financially recover.
If you start a company, you have to pay for your own healthcare and possibly that of your employees. That is a big-ticket item. Lots of new companies survive on narrow margins until they get stronger. How many go under from insurance costs, or the owner gets sick or injured?
Health insurance execs make mega millions of dollars. They are hugely profitable. They achieve that by denying the healthcare that you paid for. They hire doctors to find ways to deny coverage
Our system is terrible and demeaning. It costs too much and hurts the people in many ways.
Get sick and try fighting the insurance companies to get them to cover procedures. You live on phones and sending emails to depts, which keep on changing. Those horror stories are common.
The vast majority of personal bankruptcies have a healthcare coverage factor in them. Our system kills families.

 

[LV426]

Our system puts the handling cost of healthcare on our companies. Large companies have huge staffs taking care of health insurance. That makes them less competitive.
If you want to change jobs, you have to factor in the healthcare gap. Don't get injured or sick at the wrong time. You may never financially recover.
If you start a company, you have to pay for your own healthcare and possibly that of your employees. That is a big-ticket item. Lots of new companies survive on narrow margins until they get stronger. How many go under from insurance costs, or the owner gets sick or injured?
Health insurance execs make mega millions of dollars. They are hugely profitable. They achieve that by denying the healthcare that you paid for. They hire doctors to find ways to deny coverage
Our system is terrible and demeaning. It costs too much and hurts the people in many ways.
Get sick and try fighting the insurance companies to get them to cover procedures. You live on phones and sending emails to depts, which keep on changing. Those horror stories are common.
The vast majority of personal bankruptcies have a healthcare coverage factor in them. Our system kills families.

The system is working exactly as designed...insurance companies profit when they deny claims.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Far from it. You can't even see the nuance. You are simply as dumb as a post. Very hard to get through your concrete brain. I want a single payer system that continues to utilize insurance companies for the 'extras'. Medicare for all. Nothing black and white about that, but you can't see it. I doubt you even understand it. So far, you have PROPOSED nothing. You just constantly whine and complain about things you don't like, but you are completely devoid of solutions.

dunning kreuger ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^