Tesla Model 3 named winner in KBB’s 5-Year Cost to Own Awards 2022. MAGA wets panties

[ExpressLane]

No, they don't.

Yes they did.

 

[ExpressLane]

When EVs are ubiquitous, the Chunnel Train won't be needed since EVs don't produce noxious fumes.

Those EVs are all running on fossil fuels.

 

[ExpressLane]

Yes they did.

California is the first state to make electric cars mandatory. Now it’s telling owners not to charge them

 

[ExpressLane]

Jealousy is an ugly thing, ExcessLies.

Yes we all know you are jealous of MAGA. I already own a EV. It's called a golf cart

 

[Joe Capitalist]

Those EVs are all running on fossil fuels.

No they're not. They run on electricity, moron.

20% of America's energy sources are NOT FROM FOSSIL FUELS (nuclear and renewables).

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/data-and-statistics.php

You've been duped again, ExcessLies.
It really is an effort for you to tell the truth, isn't it ExcessLies.

 

[ExpressLane]

 

[Joe Capitalist]

Yes we all know you are jealous of MAGA. I already own a EV. It's called a golf cart

You wish you could own a Tesla like me. But all you can afford is a golf cart. So sad.

Please stop wishing you were me. Remember: Thou shalt not covet...

 

[ExpressLane]

 

[ExpressLane]

 

[ExpressLane]

You wish you could own a Tesla like me. But all you can afford is a golf cart. So sad.

Please stop wishing you were me. Remember: Thou shalt not covet...

Yeah right. To bad you can't afford a real man's truck. You had to settle for a toy car with batteries.

 

[ExpressLane]

No they're not. They run on electricity, moron.

20% of America's energy sources are NOT FROM FOSSIL FUELS (nuclear and renewables).

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/data-and-statistics.php

You've been duped again, ExcessLies.
It really is an effort for you to tell the truth, isn't it ExcessLies.

So where does the other 80% of the charge going into those EVs come from moron

 

[Into the Night]

London only allows electric trains (whether for passengers or cargo), so you get on an electric train, then you pass through the Chunnel(the only tunnel under the Channel), which only allows electric trains.

Powered by coal or natural gas.

France, Germany, and Poland all use electric trains mostly, and usually ban non-electric trains from most of their lines.

Powered by coal, natural gas, or nuclear.

When you hit Belarus, there is a gauge break, so you have to switch trains, but you are getting back on an electric train. The Trans-Siberian Railroad through Russia is all electric.

Powered by coal or natural gas.

Then you switch to another electric train at the Chinese border, which will take you all the way to Hong Kong. Only electric trains are allowed into Hong Kong.

Not fully electrified. Switchover to diesel locomotives for non-electric portion. The electric portion is powered by coal and natural gas.

There are two gauge breaks requiring switching trains, and there are a few other train switches in there, but they are all electric trains... If it is a cargo train, those electric trains can get quite big, and if it is a passenger train, they can get quite fast.

You seem to forget that ALL electric trains require power.

 

[Into the Night]

They sound like the people who used to say horses could take you anywhere, but ICE cars were useless for travel.

Presentism fallacy. False equivalence fallacy.

Horses can still take you pretty much anywhere, even places that ICE cars can't. ICE cars take only a few minutes to refuel. EV's take hours. That cannot change, since it requires so many watts to move a vehicle whether it's powered by gasoline or by batteries.

EV's are not replacing ICE cars. See what is on the road today, dumbass. EVs make up a very small percentage of cars on the road. They are expensive and it will only get worse as the rare materials required for the batteries become less and less available.

But since you 'green' idiots like the idea of strip mining and child labor now, I guess your God, Elon Musk is being forgiven for his abandoning the SDTC and the attempted purchase of Twitter.

 

[volsrock]

No, they don't.

California is the first state to make electric cars mandatory. Now it’s telling owners not to charge them

https://fortune.com/2022/09/01/california-electric-cars-charge-newsom/

 

[ExpressLane]

Powered by coal or natural gas.

Powered by coal, natural gas, or nuclear.

Powered by coal or natural gas.

Not fully electrified. Switchover to diesel locomotives for non-electric portion. The electric portion is powered by coal and natural gas.

You seem to forget that ALL electric trains require power.

But that comes from magic and pixie dust.

 

[Into the Night]

EV's are power source agnostic, meaning that whatever power sources you use to produce electricity is fine for them. In a country like France, that would mostly be nuclear, which is not a fossil fuel.

I guess you don't care about the cost of electricity in the EU.

There is no such thing as a fossil fuel. Fossils don't burn. They aren't used as fuel.

 

[Into the Night]

There's a reason why every major auto manufacturer is now selling EVs.

Because there are twits out there like you that will buy them.

 

[volsrock]

No, they don't.

Californians Told Not to Charge Electric Cars Days After Gas Car Sales Ban

https://www.newsweek.com/californians-told-not-charge-electric-cars-gas-car-sales-ban-1738398

 

[Into the Night]

You see...why do you people that hate EV's make up this shit?
No offense, but you clearly have NO IDEA what you are talking about on this and just are guessing.

No, he knows what he is talking about and is not guessing.

How POSSIBLY could an electric motor need more maintenance than an ICE (internal combustion engine).

Easy. It's a moving part.

How much maintenance have you EVER done on ANY electric motor in ANY appliance you have ever had?

Me? A fair amount. Mostly fixing a wiring problem, cleaning, or changing out starting capacitors. I've had to replace just about every electric motor at one time or another on aircraft.

Even the bloody GM website says that their Chevy Bolt EV requires less maintenance.

You believe the sales pitch, eh?

And batteries need maintenance?
Where did you get that one?

Yes. Batteries need maintenance.

Does you phone battery need maintenance?
I have NEVER heard of a phone battery, EVER needing maintenance.

Not the same battery.

And they are the EXACT, same type of battery in most EV's (Lithium Ion).

Nope. Not the same battery.

In fact, ALL a Tesla battery pack is, is hundreds of tiny, 'AA' battery-shaped Lithium Ion batteries - attached together.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/autos/tesla-batteries-better-than-expected-1.3888199
Look on YouTube?
Any schmuck with even tiny, electrical knowledge can build a car/bicycle battery.

Battery packs pushing heavy currents used in EVs MUST be cooled. Many EVs use liquid coolant for that, which must be changed from time to time. Building a battery does not require electrical knowledge. It requires chemistry and engineering knowledge.

They are relatively simple.

No, they are not.
First, you must obtain the materials, primarily lithium and cobalt, both hard to get, and both use strip mining to get it. You will also need aluminum, also strip mined, but fortunately more available.
There is very limited supply of lithium and especially of cobalt. As more EVs get build, supply will not meet demand, meaning costs go way up, and the price of the car correspondingly so.

Then you have to smelt the lithium to lithium metal. This metal is highly reactive, so you have to do this under carefully controlled conditions. These conditions MUST be maintained during battery manufacture. Once manufactured, the metal is protected by a plastic and aluminum wrapping.

Then you have to assemble them into packs. They MUST be reasonably matched to work in a pack. That means each and every one of them MUST be tested for internal resistance and charge characteristics. Today, this is automated in some plants, but it must be done.

Once the pack is assembled, you have a potentially dangerous incendiary on your hands. You MUST install protective guards when handling the thing and installing in the vehicle. These are heavy packs too, requiring special equipment to lift and mount them. They are the bulk of the weight of the car, which is a fair bit heavier than an ICE vehicle of the same size.

Charging them is tricky. They can only charge so fast. Any faster and the batteries are destroyed. They can only discharge so fast. Any faster and the batteries are destroyed. Destruction usually takes the form of catching fire. Such a fire is a class C fire. You can't put it out with water. Most fire departments are ill equipped for large class C fires. They usually just let the thing burn, and put out any fires it starts by doing so.

Besides, EV manufacturers include HUGE, battery warranties.
Chevy's is 8 years.
Do you really think they would offer that if it was going to cost them a bundle to service the battery?

It IS costing them.

Of course not.
https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/living-electric/complete-care

It IS costing them.

And electronics?
Electronics have no moving parts.

Motors are a moving part. So are relays, controls, etc. Connectors are also major points of failure. Overheating of electronics, particularly displays, is also a problem. Wiring will also chafe under the vibration sustained by the vehicle. As wiring ages, insulation becomes brittle and cracks, and corrosion is always a problem.

How much maintenance have you done on your PC/laptops/smartphones?

A fair amount. I keep my PC up to date, even replacing it from time to time as POST software becomes unable to cope with my needs.

I have never done ANY.
And most of them work fine.
Even one's that are 10 years old.

So you run outdated machines. Meh.

I have my first iPhone 3GS I bought in 2009 and I still use it for a clock for sleeping.
It works fine.

'The correct answer is that you don’t need to do anything to maintain your electric vehicles’ main motor and electric drivetrain. Nowadays, electric motors are so reliable that your EVs other components will fail first before the motor. Even every internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicle comes with a starter motor that never fails.

You're still on 3GS????!!? You DO realize, don't you, that 3GS carriers are in the process of shutting down?
Any motor can fail, even a brand new one. You are dreaming.

EV motors run hot. They MUST be cooled. Oil is used for lubrication and as a coolant. It must be changed from time to time (though not as often as ICE engine oil, more like ICE transmission oil). In addition, the gearing in some electric cars also require lubricant which much be changed from time to time. Further, battery coolant is often liquid coolant, which must be changed from time to time, or corrosion will set in and possibly cause a fire.

The motor and electric drive units have lubricating oil.

Which much be changed. This oil is also used for cooling the motor, using a radiator.

However, almost all EVs do not require to change this lubricating oil for its lifetime.

An outright lie.

For example, the motor of any Tesla cars — Model 3, Model S, Model X — do not need to replace the motor lubricating oil.'

https://provscons.com/maintenance-required-for-electric-cars/

Yes they do. Not maintaining your motors will cause that motor to fail.

And ask ANYONE who runs an auto parts store.
They HATE EV's because they need such tiny amounts of maintenance.

Yes they do. They body must be maintained like any car. So do the tires and brakes. Newer cars such as the EV you lease require little engine maintenance.

'As a rough estimate, electric vehicles have about 1/10th of the ongoing requirement for repair and replacement parts.'

Making up numbers isn't helping you. The cost of replacing a battery (it will become necessary at some point) on a Tesla is currently about $20,000; just for the PART, then you pay more for the schmuck to put it in. It requires a special shop set up for this procedure as well.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4177868-evs-disrupt-retail-auto-parts

The EV1 came about because of California's proposed zero emission law.
PERIOD.

And it failed. Auto parts stores don't sell dealer parts. You have to go to the dealer for practically every bit of of maintenance (other than body and tire maintenance) for an electric car. EXPENSIVE!

'The decision to mass-produce an electric car came after GM received a favorable reception for its 1990 Impact electric concept car, upon which the design of the EV1 drew heavily. Inspired partly by the Impact's perceived potential for success, the California Air Resources Board (CARB) subsequently[when?] passed a mandate that made the production and sale of zero-emissions vehicles (ZEV) a requirement for the seven major automakers selling cars in the United States to continue to market their vehicles in California.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1#Costs

Wagoner is full of it.
GM had NO CHOICE.
They HAD to build an EV for California (their biggest market).
But later...California backed off from the law, and GM was off the hook.

The SDTC is NOT the largest market for vehicles. Your arrogance is astounding.

GM HATED EV's because they have such tiny maintenance requirements and they last so long....this hurts their dealer networks as up to 50% of all profits for these businesses comes from parts and service.
Wagoner was lying to cover up the fact that ALL major manufacturers HATE EV's because they have such low maintenance costs.
Plus, it is very difficult for manufacturers to make money on EV's.
Especially way back then.
Tesla NEVER posted a yearly profit for the first 13 years.

Why the fuck would GM destroy every EV1 they could get their hands on?

RQAA. Because the car only had a range of about 100 miles, and the batteries were dangerous as they aged more and more, and the cost to GM to maintain the things became prohibitive.

And refused to let the owners keep theirs, once the leases ran out?
The answer is obvious - they did NOT want people to get used to EV's low maintenance/operating costs.

HIGH maintenance costs. That's what killed the EV1.

You seem like a relatively, level-headed guy.
Do yourself a favor and do not guess about something you do not understand.

Nah. That would be YOU. You comparing a new car to an old car, dealer parts and maintenance to third party sources, have never repaired much of anything in your life so you don't appreciate just what it takes to build and maintain anything, have almost zero knowledge of chemistry and electricity (as demonstrated by not understanding battery technology or electrical and electronic engineering and maintenance).

EV's cost far, FAR less to use and maintain than ICE's.

But they are expensive to buy.

You are making up numbers. You are also failing to account for costs. Argument from randU fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

You clearly have ZERO knowledge of electronics or electric motor control systems.

Quite right. He also does not understand maintenance costs or cost of materials and difficulty in obtaining them.

As for batteries:

And this is a guy that specializes in these battery packs. A special shop that does little else. He ain't cheap.

When something electronic with many cards and software involved, goes wrong it can take a technician hours to find the issue and then replace the bad card (big $$$$) or fix the software. This isn't something any technician can do quickly and consistently. I know from decades of experience.

Hear, hear. This is dead on. Indeed, in many cases, a technician has NO option since he doesn't have the specialized equipment to find the problem. Only the dealer has that...BIG BUCKS!

The major manufacturers hate EV's because they are not nearly as profitable as selling ICE vehicles. They know if forced to sell them, they can do so at cost or above with no discount since they don't give a shit about their small impact on total sales. The only way EV's have been able to enter the market with any significance is that government(s) mandate them, give out huge subsidies (aka bribes) to buyers, and other incentives.

Exactly. This the fascist and communistic aspect of the whole EV religion.

People simply don't want the fucking things on their own.

Yea, sure, some Greentards and other morons, along with rich Leftists will buy them mostly for virtue signaling, but the average buyer wants no part of one.

And this can be easily demonstrated by simply looking at any major freeway. It's not filled with EVs. It's primarily ICE cars on them. Only about 1-2 percent of them are EVs.