Starbucks raises worker wages except if unionized

T. A. Gardner said:
No. I think all unions are however. Unions as a general rule are bad. There are exceptions, but most of the time they are both unnecessary and undeserving in today's world. The reason for this is that corporations and their management are under many legal restrictions on their behavior that didn't exist a century ago. Most also recognize the need to be competitive in wages and benefits to attract the talent they need.

A century ago, large companies simply needed warm bodies to perform simple tasks. That's no longer the case. Labor unions, in particular, are relics of that bygone age. Professional unions mainly exist to limit competition and entry into the market of workers to keep wages and benefits of those in them high at the expense of those that can't manage to get entry. This is as true of the Bar (lawyers) as it is of a carpenter's union.

With the companies I know of personally, or through friends, unions largely exist to enrich and promote those that run them while doing little or nothing for their members. For example several people I know that work for Raytheon told me their union threw a strike on orders from the local president simply so he could make himself look good to the national leadership and get moved up in the union. Didn't give a shit about what that would do to the workers. Right after he did it, I was told he went full-time with the national union management and was no longer at Raytheon.

Another, was at a job I had. I refused to join and the local and I had a, let's say gentleman's agreement, to leave each other alone. One local president while I was there stole over $32,000 for personal use from the union including buying a lifetime membership. The national level couldn't be bothered to do anything about that because the amount to them was too small. So much for looking out for the rank and file. Good thing I wasn't wasting my money on that shit.

One of the kids was once a manager at Albertson's (grocery store). The union struck them and several other chains. The stores refused to negotiate saying they couldn't afford the union's demands and stay competitive with non-union chains. They union wanted none of that. So, they were locked out and managers like him were brought in to fill in until the strike was over. He made great overtime.
Other unions tried to support this like the Teamsters and refused to allow their drivers to deliver. The stores leased their own trucks and non-union drivers and dropped the companies and union drivers entirely and never rehired them.
After a legal period of waiting these stores hired non-union workers at the same wages and benefits they'd offered the union workers. They had dozens of people applying for each position. No shortage of applicants.
The union demanded too much and got ass fucked for it as did their members.

I'm not saying there's not a time and place for unions. There is. It's just today their necessity is in steep decline and that's not going to change.
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There is some truth in here, but without unions we see exactly what's happening across the nation.


[h=1]“Right-to-Work” States Still Have Lower Wages[/h]
 
T. A. Gardner said:
In construction and the trades, the biggest reason for a decline in wages is illegal immigration. I know that because I see it first hand.
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Not just illegal immigration. All immigration, which has been the case for centuries. How do you think prejudice was born?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
It depends upon the state or region. Gas in DC is about $4.50 and $3.87 at Walmart in North Texas.
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It's $4.50 here, we have the second highest gas tax in the nation. Worse yet, it was on the news today that diesel is $2.73 higher than it was a year ago. One trucker said it cost him $1000 to fill his tanks. Someone eats those price increases. That someone is all of us.
 
Althea said:
Not just illegal immigration. All immigration, which has been the case for centuries. How do you think prejudice was born?
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No, not all immigration is bad. Those coming through the legal channels and swearing the oath are welcome. Those who's visa's ran out and everyone else here illegally should be deported. No exceptions. The border sealed by armed guards. There are over a thousand a day coming across, and that is the ones they catch. This cannot continue. And Biden wants to let even more in.
Don't be a fool, prejudice was spread around. It wasn't just the white man against everyone else. Everyone else hated everyone else. Today, it everyone else against the white man, mainly the conservative and especially the older Christian white man.
 
RB 60 said:
It's $4.50 here, we have the second highest gas tax in the nation. Worse yet, it was on the news today that diesel is $2.73 higher than it was a year ago. One trucker said it cost him $1000 to fill his tanks. Someone eats those price increases. That someone is all of us.
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Agreed corporations pass higher costs to their customers. God Bless America and the Free Market!

IIRC, the Pandemic of 1918 took four years to pass. History is funny; they have WWI from 19114-1918 with the pandemic from 1918 to 1922. We have COVID from 2020 to present (with another wave predicted next winter) and the Russian war on Ukraine.

All these events cause instability of the market. I’ve taken about an 8% hit on my 401k portfolio. My current strategy is to ride it out, not touch the fund while waiting for the market to rise again either in 2023 or 2024. Too many people panic by buying high and selling low. Not a business guy, but my brother is so I learned to double down during the Great Recession in 2008. It really helped me come back from a divorce which had split my savings 50/50.
 
RB 60 said:
No, not all immigration is bad. Those coming through the legal channels and swearing the oath are welcome. Those who's visa's ran out and everyone else here illegally should be deported. No exceptions. The border sealed by armed guards. There are over a thousand a day coming across, and that is the ones they catch. This cannot continue. And Biden wants to let even more in.
Don't be a fool, prejudice was spread around. It wasn't just the white man against everyone else. Everyone else hated everyone else. Today, it everyone else against the white man, mainly the conservative and especially the older Christian white man.
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Agreed on holding those illegal immigrants who intentionally broke the law* accountable by deportation and sending them to the back of the line for immigration. Disagreed that a wall or a line of armed guards (or even machine gun nests some have suggested) is a workable solution. We need immigration reform.

Among other things like GW Bush’s idea of more work visas, I suggest We, the People go after the people drawing the illegals here; start arresting any business owner who employs illegals, rents to illegals or otherwise supports illegals staying in country.

The biggest drop of illegals in 30 years was the Great Recession; no jobs reduces the attraction for illegals to come or stay.

IMO, “the Wall” is a smokescreen that avoids doing what really needs to be done. It gives politicians the appearance of striving to solve the illegal immigrant problem while simultaneously protecting all the campaign donors who profit from illegal immigration.

Illegal immigration is 21st century indentured servitude. It needs to stop.


*worded to protect any minor brought here as a child and who, for all intents and purposes, is an American except by citizenship.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed corporations pass higher costs to their customers. God Bless America and the Free Market!

IIRC, the Pandemic of 1918 took four years to pass. History is funny; they have WWI from 19114-1918 with the pandemic from 1918 to 1922. We have COVID from 2020 to present (with another wave predicted next winter) and the Russian war on Ukraine.

All these events cause instability of the market. I’ve taken about an 8% hit on my 401k portfolio. My current strategy is to ride it out, not touch the fund while waiting for the market to rise again either in 2023 or 2024. Too many people panic by buying high and selling low. Not a business guy, but my brother is so I learned to double down during the Great Recession in 2008. It really helped me come back from a divorce which had split my savings 50/50.
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I took a hit in the 401k's too. I'm thinking about pulling one and reinvesting it. The other I'll let alone. I want to redo my bathroom and put in a walk-in shower. The GF wants to do it this summer, I want to wait until the construction prices drop a little. I might be selling a few guns in a month or two :(
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Do you really believe they are making minimum wage?

Why not arrest the business owner?
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Isn't that the point? You stated that they aren't taking jobs. Minimum wage is still 1/2 to 2/3 of what skilled labor would be paid outside of a union. Roofing is one thing. A chimp can do it. Once they move forward to other phases of construction, I find the quality of work lacking.

Arresting business owners is one way to end the problem. Including the thousands who pay American workers cash every day.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Yep, Starbucks just announced they're going to raise their non-union worker's wages to $15 an hour. At unionized locations, workers will continue to receive their current wages.


https://www.thestreet.com/investing/starbucks-union-illegal-raises

So, why would Starbucks corporate management do this? Because at union locations the union members and union have to negotiate a contract with the employer for their terms and conditions of work. This means union members will continue to receive their current wages (about $12 to $14 depending on location) until a new contract is negotiated. Even then, it is possible they could receive less compensation, and they'd have to make close to $16 an hour to end up with $15 an hour after paying their union dues...
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That's SOP for many large companies. Years ago I worked a union job at Honeywell. The guys doing the same job in a non-union plant in another city was making $3.00 mor an hour. That is one reason I dislike unions. BTW same benefits package at both places.
 
RB 60 said:
I took a hit in the 401k's too. I'm thinking about pulling one and reinvesting it. The other I'll let alone. I want to redo my bathroom and put in a walk-in shower. The GF wants to do it this summer, I want to wait until the construction prices drop a little. I might be selling a few guns in a month or two :(
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Sorry about your hit. The good news is that the supply shortage has raised the prices of firearms. I have an excess of guns* and am thinking of selling them on consignment depending upon the bite the class III guy puts on me.

Although I did start a promised job for my wife, but I’m holding off as much as possible until next year when there are predictions of a recession which will bring prices down along with supplies going up.


*like fishing; when one has too many to clean, one has too many.
 
Althea said:
Isn't that the point? You stated that they aren't taking jobs. Minimum wage is still 1/2 to 2/3 of what skilled labor would be paid outside of a union. Roofing is one thing. A chimp can do it. Once they move forward to other phases of construction, I find the quality of work lacking.

Arresting business owners is one way to end the problem. Including the thousands who pay American workers cash every day.
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Once again I have to decide if you are intentionally misquoting me or if you are simply, to put it nicely, seeing what you want to see.

Dutch Uncle said:
Bullshit. Illegals aren’t taking middle-class jobs as you are asserting.
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Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed on holding those illegal immigrants who intentionally broke the law* accountable by deportation and sending them to the back of the line for immigration. Disagreed that a wall or a line of armed guards (or even machine gun nests some have suggested) is a workable solution. We need immigration reform.

Among other things like GW Bush’s idea of more work visas, I suggest We, the People go after the people drawing the illegals here; start arresting any business owner who employs illegals, rents to illegals or otherwise supports illegals staying in country.

The biggest drop of illegals in 30 years was the Great Recession; no jobs reduces the attraction for illegals to come or stay.

IMO, “the Wall” is a smokescreen that avoids doing what really needs to be done. It gives politicians the appearance of striving to solve the illegal immigrant problem while simultaneously protecting all the campaign donors who profit from illegal immigration.

Illegal immigration is 21st century indentured servitude. It needs to stop.


*worded to protect any minor brought here as a child and who, for all intents and purposes, is an American except by citizenship.
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OK. Maybe not machine gun nests, but guard towers would be fine. spaced 1000 yards apart, a 500 yard shot wouldn't be that difficult (for some of us.)

I agree on fining companies who hire illegals, and hammer their "human resources" managers, the actual person that hired them. Fine them both heavy.

It wouldn't be fair to split up families by deporting illegal parents, deport the kids too. It would save a lot of money.

As for protecting our borders, why not ask the border patrol what is needed? It's not that difficult. Politicians don't know shit, hell, they won't even visit the border when they were given the task by the president (who hasn't visited the border either). he claims there's no crisis and wants to allow even more. He must be stopped.

It's a nice calm and sunny morning. I'm gonna go see if I can catch a groundhog along the hedgerows. Then put in one of the A/C this afternoon.
 
RB 60 said:
OK. Maybe not machine gun nests, but guard towers would be fine. spaced 1000 yards apart, a 500 yard shot wouldn't be that difficult (for some of us.)

I agree on fining companies who hire illegals, and hammer their "human resources" managers, the actual person that hired them. Fine them both heavy.

It wouldn't be fair to split up families by deporting illegal parents, deport the kids too. It would save a lot of money.

As for protecting our borders, why not ask the border patrol what is needed? It's not that difficult. Politicians don't know shit, hell, they won't even visit the border when they were given the task by the president (who hasn't visited the border either). he claims there's no crisis and wants to allow even more. He must be stopped.

It's a nice calm and sunny morning. I'm gonna go see if I can catch a groundhog along the hedgerows. Then put in one of the A/C this afternoon.
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No fines, just prison. Three months for the first offense, six months for the second, double from there on.

Corporations do a cost benefit analysis and fines are often much less than they need to be. A company will happily pay a $100K fine if they are raking in $200K for the crime.

Asking the BP is fine, but that’s like asking soldiers what they need to fight an unnecessary war. The question isn’t “How much more firepower do you need?” but “why are we in an unnecessary war?”

Be it machine gunning down families or just blowing the heads off mother’s carrying babies, I disagree with the tactic. A defense in depth is always better than a single line of defense. Killing people shouldn’t be done unless absolutely necessary. If we eliminate the draw (money) then there’ll be no need to kill anyone since they’ll stop coming or, if already here, self-deport.

A one-way bus ticket is far cheaper than ammo and the negative publicity of dead mothers and babies with their heads blown off.
 
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