Why Putin is taking Ukraine- by Putin
- Thread starter moon
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moon
Satire for Sanity
Putin reveals how Ukraine bloodshed could've been avoided
Kiev was asked to pull out of Donbass but refused, the Russian president said for the first time
Moscow had asked Kiev to withdraw troops from Donbass republics to avoid bloodshed, but Ukraine refused, Russian President Vladimir Putin revealed for the first time on Wednesday.
“I want to say this for the first time: at the very beginning of the operation in Donbass, to avoid bloodshed, we asked the Kiev authorities through various channels to not engage in hostilities but simply withdraw their troops from Donbass. They didn’t want to,” Putin said in a video call with the governors of Russian regions.
“Well, that’s their decision. They will inevitably come to realize what is happening in reality, on the ground,” the Russian president added.
The revelation came three weeks after Putin ordered the Russian military to enter Ukraine to demilitarize and “denazify” the government in Kiev. He accused Ukrainian leadership of “genocide” against the Russian-speaking residents of the Donetsk and Lugansk republics – which Russia had recognized as independent just days earlier – as well as seeking NATO membership and nuclear and biological weapons, all of which he said represented an existential threat to Russia’s security.
All diplomatic options were “completely exhausted,” Putin said, leaving Moscow “with no options to peacefully solve problems that arose through no fault of our own.”
https://www.rt.com/russia/552091-putin-donbass-bloodshed-ukraine/
Kiev was asked to pull out of Donbass but refused, the Russian president said for the first time
Moscow had asked Kiev to withdraw troops from Donbass republics to avoid bloodshed, but Ukraine refused, Russian President Vladimir Putin revealed for the first time on Wednesday.
“I want to say this for the first time: at the very beginning of the operation in Donbass, to avoid bloodshed, we asked the Kiev authorities through various channels to not engage in hostilities but simply withdraw their troops from Donbass. They didn’t want to,” Putin said in a video call with the governors of Russian regions.
“Well, that’s their decision. They will inevitably come to realize what is happening in reality, on the ground,” the Russian president added.
The revelation came three weeks after Putin ordered the Russian military to enter Ukraine to demilitarize and “denazify” the government in Kiev. He accused Ukrainian leadership of “genocide” against the Russian-speaking residents of the Donetsk and Lugansk republics – which Russia had recognized as independent just days earlier – as well as seeking NATO membership and nuclear and biological weapons, all of which he said represented an existential threat to Russia’s security.
All diplomatic options were “completely exhausted,” Putin said, leaving Moscow “with no options to peacefully solve problems that arose through no fault of our own.”
https://www.rt.com/russia/552091-putin-donbass-bloodshed-ukraine/
Interesting...but it hardly justifies invading the entire country,
I would have had no problem if Putin had invaded the Donbass and helped the locals take all of Lugansk and Donetsk.
Both of those regions voted overwhelmingly to leave Ukraine back in 2014 (as did Crimea).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Donbas_status_referendums
And maybe even establish a 20 miles buffer zone on the western borders of these regions to stop Kiev from hitting these areas with long-range artillery fire.
Something Kiev has been doing for almost eight years now and killed over 5,000 Donbass civilians in the process.
But invading/conquering an ENTIRE country just because they might joining NATO is going WAY too far.
On the flip side?
NATO promised after the Cold War ended to NEVER spread to Warsaw Pact countries...let alone, former Soviet republics.
And they blew that promise long ago.
Also, Russia has been invaded - just in the last 120 years - by almost every, Western nation on the planet.
Including Canada, America and Great Britain (during the Russian Civil War).
Plus, they lost more people during WW2 than (possibly) all the other countries combined.
So they are understandably a wee bit touchy about NATO being on their doorstep.
Finally, NATO should have disbanded the second the USSR did.
Especially since the entire purpose of NATO was to protect it's nations from the USSR.
Overall, I understand Putin's points.
But he went too far...and that is that.
And now the Russian people will have to suffer through the economic sanctions that this invasion has placed upon them.
Not to mention the Ukrainians who are going through varying degrees of hell right now.
I would have had no problem if Putin had invaded the Donbass and helped the locals take all of Lugansk and Donetsk.
Both of those regions voted overwhelmingly to leave Ukraine back in 2014 (as did Crimea).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Donbas_status_referendums
And maybe even establish a 20 miles buffer zone on the western borders of these regions to stop Kiev from hitting these areas with long-range artillery fire.
Something Kiev has been doing for almost eight years now and killed over 5,000 Donbass civilians in the process.
But invading/conquering an ENTIRE country just because they might joining NATO is going WAY too far.
On the flip side?
NATO promised after the Cold War ended to NEVER spread to Warsaw Pact countries...let alone, former Soviet republics.
And they blew that promise long ago.
Also, Russia has been invaded - just in the last 120 years - by almost every, Western nation on the planet.
Including Canada, America and Great Britain (during the Russian Civil War).
Plus, they lost more people during WW2 than (possibly) all the other countries combined.
So they are understandably a wee bit touchy about NATO being on their doorstep.
Finally, NATO should have disbanded the second the USSR did.
Especially since the entire purpose of NATO was to protect it's nations from the USSR.
Overall, I understand Putin's points.
But he went too far...and that is that.
And now the Russian people will have to suffer through the economic sanctions that this invasion has placed upon them.
Not to mention the Ukrainians who are going through varying degrees of hell right now.
The Empire is throwing down.
We know forced laughter when we see it.
As for the rest of that propaganda, we know the people of Ukraine are giving the Russian invaders a bitter taste of their own medicine Putin never expected and that Ukrainians solidly support their freely elected President, an honor Putin can only dream he received.
The alternative narrative is that Putin never expected Ukrainians to be this dim.
That may be a dummy's narrative. The real takeaway from Putin's statement is that he's had enough, is trying to put a good face on a bad move and is looking for a way out. In that sense his comment is encouraging.
I see no indication that the Empire has made a mistake.
No? The analysts I've read, as well as the general impression in the West from what I can see, is that "the Empire" in its invasion of a smaller country was poorly prepared, poorly equipped, poorly led, poorly motivated, and thus has made a colossal mistake.
The West now rejects the speaking of truth and is lead by infants, so dont make too much out of that.
moon
Satire for Sanity
Truth has bitten your ass. Here it is again;
You're welcome to refute any part of it - but another trite aside won't restore your credibility.
Interesting you regard "Ukrainians solidly support their freely elected President" as a trite aside. Putin would agree.
As for your first point, referring to the ousted president now living in Russia where his loyalty always was, he was rejected first by the Ukrainian parliament then ousted after he failed to remove himself. But the point that matters is that the current legally elected President has the broad support of both the parliament and the citizenry.
On Donbass, this was civil strife at first, then Russia stuck its nose in and its firepower, and that led to most of the death and destruction. Seems to me the way to resolve the "breakaways", if possible, would be internationally supervised free elections of the people of those regions.
reagansghost
eternal
The Anonymous
Bag On My Head
Cite the evidence that this will happen or STFU.
Airstrip One
Completely Effed
Last time I looked at a map, the Donbass region was part of Ukraine.
Aren't you supposed to be a slave to always parroting international law? What do you suppose the brain and moral trust at the Hague think about this invasion?
moon
Satire for Sanity
Donetsk and Lugansk have unilaterally declared statehood- just like Israel did in 1948- and their republics have been recognized by several countries already- just like several countries recognized Israel. Israel eventually became a UN-recognized state and Donetsk and Lugansk have the same ambitions. So- whether they are part of Ukraine or not depends partly upon your political affiliations- but mostly it depends upon what their inhabitants want.
NATO professes to promote ' self-determination '. Here's a case of self-determination for the hypocritical fuckers to deal with.
Personally- I advise you to buy copy of the new map. Yours is outdated.
Airstrip One
Completely Effed
Oh, has the UN previously recognized them as independent states?
https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_People's_Republic
https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luhansk_People's_Republic