America is losing its religion — and the effects will be long-lasting

Dutch Uncle said:
Again, you prove you aren't a Christian. Again, you prove you are more supportive of the other team since nothing in your posts gives a hint of Christianity but certainly exhibits all the vile and hatred of Satan himself.
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Jesus, I am sorry.....I did not realize you were posting here under the name Dutch Uncle......I will try to do better in the future......
 
Middle America and the Deep South are not losing their religion, unfortunately.

Generally speaking, the universities in the future Atlantic States of America and the future Pacific States of America are doing their jobs.
The future remaining "United" States of American are holding on to their religion as if it were actually worth something.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
good lord, you worthless cunt, that isn't what you said......you can't even be honest about that.....

here is a link to your claim.....


given that most of protestant denominations do not share the theology of either Luther and Calvin, and Luther and Calvin themselves have different doctrines of theology it was a stupid statement......obviously because you have done nothing except lie about what you said you realize it was stupid........unfortunately you aren't man enough to admit it....instead you pretend you said something else.....
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The Protestant theological tenets of salvation by faith alone, election by grace, the primacy of Scripture, biblical literalism, biblical inerrancy, shunning of ritual and iconography, rejection of ecclesiastical authority - all come from 500 years ago directly from Luther, Calvin and their theological traditions.

Those tenets are broadly shared or are influential across world Protestantism as a whole, regardless of denomination.

Those theological traditions were not invented in your obscure bible thumping American evangelical church. You inherited them from Luther and Calvin.
 
Hello Nordberg,

Nordberg said:
Religions divide people. They are us against them since success is getting more power, parishioners, and money. Religions have caused wars and conflicts throughout history. Religions get perverted by the leaders and evangelical preachers have done it in public. It would be a much kinder world if religions did not exist.
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Agreed, but the reality is they do exist.

So how do we preserve freedom and also limit the negative effect religions have on society?
 
Hello Dutch Uncle,

Dutch Uncle said:
People use politics too. HOA meetings, the PTA, whatever is handy. Basically, some people are assholes.

Religion doesn't kill people. People kill people. :)

It seems too many atheists assume "losing religion" means atheism. Note that the numbers of atheists remain low compared to those who are spiritual, but not religious.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...s-now-say-theyre-spiritual-but-not-religious/
About a quarter of U.S. adults (27%) now say they think of themselves as spiritual but not religious, up 8 percentage points in five years, according to a Pew Research Center survey conducted between April 25 and June 4 (2017)

https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/
Unaffiliated (religious "nones")22.8%
Atheist 3.1%
Agnostic 4.0%
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Nothing in particular 15.8%
Don't know 0.6%
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OK, so there are 22.8% who do not associate with religion. Only 3.1% of those will actually come out and say they are atheist, and another 4% say they are agnostic with a whopping 15.8% saying they 'don't know.' That tells me they refuse to identify as Christian or any other religion, but they are afraid to admit they are non-believers. I would have given that answer when I was younger, before I just decided to go ahead and admit to myself and the world I am atheist, after going through a transitional period where I called myself agnostic. I did first have to become familiar with the definition of that word.

This 15.8% simply have not categorized their non-belief, and don't want to be nailed down to something they have not given enough thought to to make up their mind and take a stand. Especially when they don't have to.

And there is a stigma to openly saying you are agnostic or atheist. That is putting something out there which can be attacked. People don't like to have to defend themselves. Also, young people are often still searching for their life-mate. Declaration of a designation which is seen by many as essentially being 'of the devil' is often a good way to drive off potential mates.

I would expect much of that 15.8% to be in a young age group.
 
Hello Dutch Uncle,

Dutch Uncle said:
Religious is following religious dogma. How can a person be a Christian if they don't follow Christian precepts? A Jew without adhering to the Torah? A Muslim without following the Koran? A person can still accept or believe in something beyond the physical universe without adhering to specific dogma.

Ergo, a person can be spiritual without religion.

IMHO, religion is a method. Spiritual enlightenment is the goal. Martial arts teaches self-defense, among other things, but each style is just a different method to learn self-defense. Likewise, religions are simply methods to allow the person to attain spiritual enlightenment. Not everyone wants to reach that enlightenment. They just mumble the words.
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= Afraid to be left out.

Openly admitting atheism in a small town with a lot of churches would be like saying you want to be shunned.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,



= Afraid to be left out.

Openly admitting atheism in a small town with a lot of churches would be like saying you want to be shunned.
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Answering a poll question is anonymous, and there is no way your friends are going to be able to track down one's answer in an anonymous poll and shame you about it.

Therefore, I take the poll results at face value. Affiliation and attendance at churches is dropping, but neither are we seeing any significant rise in self-identified atheists.

Probably a lot of people maintain some kind of nebulous belief system in a higher truth or spritual reality, even if they do not want to affiliate with a church.
 
Hello Cypress,

Cypress said:
Answering a poll question is anonymous, and there is no way your friends are going to be able to track down one's answer in an anonymous poll and shame you about it.

Therefore, I take the poll results at face value. Affiliation and attendance at churches is dropping, but neither are we seeing any significant rise in self-identified atheists
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After so many years of being reluctant to admit my own atheism I view all those who refuse to identify with any religion as atheists who won't admit it to themselves or others.

And I do think peer pressure is a big part of that, coupled with the inherent desire to have one story whether it is within one's own thoughts or openly discussed with others, since most people do want to be honest with themselves.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,



OK, so there are 22.8% who do not associate with religion. Only 3.1% of those will actually come out and say they are atheist, and another 4% say they are agnostic with a whopping 15.8% saying they 'don't know.' That tells me they refuse to identify as Christian or any other religion, but they are afraid to admit they are non-believers. I would have given that answer when I was younger, before I just decided to go ahead and admit to myself and the world I am atheist, after going through a transitional period where I called myself agnostic. I did first have to become familiar with the definition of that word.

This 15.8% simply have not categorized their non-belief, and don't want to be nailed down to something they have not given enough thought to to make up their mind and take a stand. Especially when they don't have to.

And there is a stigma to openly saying you are agnostic or atheist. That is putting something out there which can be attacked. People don't like to have to defend themselves. Also, young people are often still searching for their life-mate. Declaration of a designation which is seen by many as essentially being 'of the devil' is often a good way to drive off potential mates.

I would expect much of that 15.8% to be in a young age group.
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Wow thanks for the personal story


I in my mid teens processed that I could not believe in the cultural myths that had sustained so many humans for so long in history

I realized it had done many humans much good


I realized it had also been used as a tool to Kill seas of humans


Jesus had never wanted that

I believe Jesus was a wonderful human who fought for love and kindness


His words were used by many to sustain themself through all manner of tragedy


His words have also been manipulated by evil people to kill whomever they wanted rid of


Arround 15 I began to proudly tell anyone who asked that I was an atheist


If it made prospective dates shun me then that was a good thing


I would have wasted my time dating those people

I guess I was born honoring the truth

I have always told it the way it is


I was the youngest of six (until I was about ten and my parents had two more kids)


My mom said if she wanted to know what really happened she would just ask me

I would tell her what really happened


Much to the chagrin of any of my siblings that were trying to pull one over on her


I was born with atrophied lie muscles


Hell maybe I was born without lie bones
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Matt, get a grip, dude. I'm not an atheist as anyone who has followed my religious posts knows.

The meme you quoted gives the differences. Are you saying you're a Liberal Jesus believer, not a Republican Jesus believer?
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I am saying I am neither, I am a Christian! My desire to protect my family stems from that!
 
Cypress said:
The history of Religion is something any educated person will take an interest in. One cannot be informed about western civilization without being informed about religious history.

I generally find on message boards that agnostics and atheists tend to know more about the history of Christianity and Christian theology than do bible thumping rightwingers.
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Atheist's deny the existence and power of God.
The issue with those "superior" minds is this!
25For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,



= Afraid to be left out.

Openly admitting atheism in a small town with a lot of churches would be like saying you want to be shunned.
Click to expand...



I may have done the same thing in that situation

I would like to think I would have told them and just found another place to live at 18


But I understand your situation and praise your honesty

I still had people get that look in their eyes when I told them

At college I remember talking to a table of mid eastern young men that I was atheist during a small discussion

It was wild to see all of them do that inner head reeling and trying to process that I would say such a thing out loud in public


I’ll never forget it

I told them many religious people think being atheist means one has no morals

But in fact my morals were very comparable to Christian morals of being kind and honest with people

A woman back in the 1980s (hell even now) saying such a thing in their Home Counties would had been quickly murdered


I hope it taught them a lot about America and freedom
 
Wolverine said:
Atheist's deny the existence and power of God.
The issue with those "superior" minds is this!
25For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength.
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Nope

We think people who believe in god see the world through cultural googles that they were given at birth

If those goggles help them process the world in a way that makes them better people that’s awesome

Those goggles never fit me from very early on

They kept slipping from my face and I would catch glimpses of the distortion to my vision they caused


So I tried taking them off

I realized the world made far more sense when I didn’t wear those goggles


Keep your goggles

I don’t mind

But quit talking like I need to be murdered and am evil for not wearing them


That is exactly the talk that aids your religious leaders in killing seas of humans
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Cypress,



After so many years of being reluctant to admit my own atheism I view all those who refuse to identify with any religion as atheists who won't admit it to themselves or others.

And I do think peer pressure is a big part of that, coupled with the inherent desire to have one story whether it is within one's own thoughts or openly discussed with others, since most people do want to be honest with themselves.
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Okay, but I do not agree with the premise that agnostics are just really secret atheists. I have lingered on the margins of genuine agnosticism for years.

My personal opinion: agnosticism conforms more to reason and the scientific mind. Complete and unequivocal certainty about either the absence or presence of a higher reality in the universe strike me as unwarranted by means of reason alone. I do not think our souped-up chimpanzees minds are capable of that kind of cognitive certainty. That is just my two cents.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,
= Afraid to be left out.

Openly admitting atheism in a small town with a lot of churches would be like saying you want to be shunned.
Click to expand...
What kind of town has people openly bragging about their religion or spiritual beliefs?

Most civilized people realize beliefs are a personal matter. It's like some asshole showing naked pictures of his conquests to his friends. Best not to do it out of decorum, not fear.
 
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