Biden freezes withdrawal of US troops from Germany

[CASPER]

Thank you for your service. One thing you should know is the term "LIFER" is used by many disgruntled lower ranking troops as a put down to career officers and NCO's it means someone who couldn't make it in the civilian world.

I know what it means and how some use it, but not all see it that way, hell my own father did 34 years.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I had limited contact with them, mainly running ranges for them. Correct the quality is not as mission ready with the Guard but that has always been the case. I have no idea what their logistics setup in DC but I assume they have looked into rapid deployment of ammunition if needed, for all we know the ammo was sitting in a Humvee yards away from them.
I would also assume those working checkpoints are fully armed with ammunition, or at least I would hope so.

Thanks for Your Service.

I think it was more about who was giving orders at the top. Clearly the defenses in place on January 6th were no where close to being the same as those defenses last June:

https://www.boisestatepublicradio.o...en-dc-june-where-were-they-wednesday#stream/0
There are a lot of questions about why the pro-Trump mob was able to breach the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday. One pertains to the National Guard: Where were they?...

...This summer, as protesters gathered to confront police brutality and system racism, more than 4,000 National Guard members were deployed to the capitol, not counting other kinds of law enforcement and military personnel. By contrast, in response to the pro-Trump rioters on Wednesday, only 1,100 had been deployed by late that evening.

 

[Cypress]

The only full scale wars of the 20th and 21st centuries I would call outright disasters in hindsight were Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq.

It was liberals and lefties who turned against the Vietnam war first. I did not see many conservatives in the streets with the dirty hippies protesting the Vietnam war. That is just a fact, jack.

interesting enough when the dirty hipppies durned out for bushes war, they were silent on obama's surges, obamas new wars of choice. why do you think that is?

Read my post again, and respond to what I actually wrote, not to what you wish I wrote.

Full scale wars involving conscription or major sacrifice are always going to be more controversial.

The anti Vietnam war lefties who protested did so when a Democrat was in office. I believe lefties can choose to protest what they feel are clear existential threats, without having to think about partisan politics first and foremost.

 

[Underdog]

I had limited contact with them, mainly running ranges for them. Correct the quality is not as mission ready with the Guard but that has always been the case. I have no idea what their logistics setup in DC but I assume they have looked into rapid deployment of ammunition if needed, for all we know the ammo was sitting in a Humvee yards away from them.
I would also assume those working checkpoints are fully armed with ammunition, or at least I would hope so.

Thanks for Your Service.

yes the guard and reserves are no where where the active duty are, that said, if they were truly afraid of an insurrection they would have ammo on them, not stashed away in some truck somewhere.


Checkpoint:

 

[Underdog]

Read my post again, and respond to what I actually wrote, not to what you wish I wrote.

Full scale wars involving conscription or major sacrifice are always going to be more controversial.

The anti Vietnam war lefties who protested did so when a Democrat was in office. I believe lefties can choose to protest what they feel are clear existential threats, without having to think about partisan politics first and foremost.

The surges, and Syria? why did they not protest these?


the dirty hippies showed up for bushes wars of choice, not for obamas.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Thank you for your service. One thing you should know is the term "LIFER" is used by many disgruntled lower ranking troops as a put down to career officers and NCO's it means someone who couldn't make it in the civilian world.

Agreed the term can be used disparagingly, but as Caspar wrote, I haven't always seen it used that way.

Obviously "career military" sounds better than "lifer".

My grandfather served on a tin can in WWI but was only in for his hitch. All of my uncles served and my dad was career as well as myself and my brother.

 

[CASPER]

interesting enough when the dirty hipppies durned out for bushes war, they were silent on obama's surges, obamas new wars of choice. why do you think that is?

I recall any hippies since back in my day. As for Bushes war, I assuming you are talking about Dubya, he was 100% correct to go into Afganistan, his huge mistake was putting that conflict on the backburner and invading Iraq, very stupid move. Most had no problem with Obama reducing the involvement in Iraq and making Afganistan the main effort as it always should have been.
It is way past time to get out of both countries other than diplomatic efforts, and when trump said he was going to do so I was supportive until he gave his timeline which was ludicrous and I realized he was not doing it for the military but purely for political reasons. My hope is Biden will get us out of the region but do it in a way that is safe for our troops.
The finished product well end up leaving Afganistan in the hands of the Taliban and Iraq as one big mess, not sure we did more good than damage, only history will tell.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

I know what it means and how some use it, but not all see it that way, hell my own father did 34 years.

I served 24 years so I am well versed in the military slang. The point is that using that term to describe family members is degrading you may not mean it that way but most do. Hell many people use the terms that are putdowns even if it wasn't meant as a putdown that doesn't make it right.

 

[Underdog]

Read my post again, and respond to what I actually wrote, not to what you wish I wrote.

Full scale wars involving conscription or major sacrifice are always going to be more controversial.

The anti Vietnam war lefties who protested did so when a Democrat was in office. I believe lefties can choose to protest what they feel are clear existential threats, without having to think about partisan politics first and foremost.

Is this cognitive dissonance or straight up hypocrisy?



making excuses for some wars of choice because the guy who started it is your tribesman, is partisan chickenhawkery

 

[Underdog]

I recall any hippies since back in my day. As for Bushes war, I assuming you are talking about Dubya, he was 100% correct to go into Afganistan, his huge mistake was putting that conflict on the backburner and invading Iraq, very stupid move. Most had no problem with Obama reducing the involvement in Iraq and making Afganistan the main effort as it always should have been.
It is way past time to get out of both countries other than diplomatic efforts, and when trump said he was going to do so I was supportive until he gave his timeline which was ludicrous and I realized he was not doing it for the military but purely for political reasons. My hope is Biden will get us out of the region but do it in a way that is safe for our troops.
The finished product well end up leaving Afganistan in the hands of the Taliban and Iraq as one big mess, not sure we did more good than damage, only history will tell.

someone here said "dirty hippies" I ran with it, yes w's wars of choice were protested, obamas exansion of said wars and his new wars were not protested.



I am unsure about afghanistan, we could have done it another way.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Agreed the term can be used disparagingly, but as Caspar wrote, I haven't always seen it used that way.

Obviously "career military" sounds better than "lifer".

My grandfather served on a tin can in WWI but was only in for his hitch. All of my uncles served and my dad was career as well as myself and my brother.

Is the N word a racial slur? But some people use the term as a description. Does that take the sting out of the person it was aimed at?

 

[Cypress]

Going solely by body count, I'd disagree and say WWI, WWII, Korea and, yes, Vietnam.

Afghanistan was FUBAR'd because Bush/Cheney pivoted and attacked Iraq before finishing the job in Afghanistan. Biggest military blunder in US history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war

I really was not talking about body count. I was talking about the geopolitical and strategic consequences of the decsion to wage war.

I think it would have been a major strategic disaster for the militaristic Imperial German dictatorship to overrun the western liberal democracies during their 1918 offensive. The French army was on the verge of utter collapse, and if we had not shown up, German militarism would have dominated the continent.

And it would have been a strategic mistake to let communist North Korea and their communist Chinese and Soviet allies to overrun South Korea in 1950.

It goes without saying that despite the bloodshed, our involvement in WW2 on balance, was morally justified.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The trouble I had was the word started, involved is quite a different word from started. Words matter.

Words do matter. Are we holding all Presidents and Congresses to the same standard or does that standard change depending upon who is in office?

It shouldn't matter. Only results matter. Yes, there's a lot of Monday Morning Quarterbacking, lots of Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda, but the bottom line still falls to who was in charge of each branch of government at the time of crisis.

Consider 9/11. A transitioning government is weak. No doubt if some assholes attacked the US in 2021, that Biden would take the blame. Yes, he's the President and the buck stops with him, but such an attack takes years of planning. In that scenario, I'd be looking to put blame on the failures of the Trump administration.

Same goes for 9/11; Bush was POTUS, it was his watch, but al-Qaeda had been around for a decade and only drew a tepid response from President Clinton.

There are other factors as previously mentioned. One is to consider what the American reaction to Bush setting up TSA and DHS would have been IF he'd demanded it from the Democratic Congress in August 2001. You and I know it would have been a shitstorm and wouldn't have passed. Some things have to happen in their own time.

 

[Underdog]

Agreed the term can be used disparagingly, but as Caspar wrote, I haven't always seen it used that way.

Obviously "career military" sounds better than "lifer".

My grandfather served on a tin can in WWI but was only in for his hitch. All of my uncles served and my dad was career as well as myself and my brother.

Well you were an ROTC kid who then did 6 years in the marines before being RIF'd out and you joined the naval reserves. "Career service members" is usually reserved for those who spent 20 years active duty.


Lets please keep it honest.

 

[Cypress]

I’ve reverted back to my flower child look, I haven’ t gotten a haircut since August ‘20. My hair grows fast, even at my age. It is down to my waist. My grandson says it looks like a mermaid! Peace, Love and Rock n Roll.

outstanding!

You were always a hot, hippy girl, and you always will be

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Is the N word a racial slur? But some people use the term as a description. Does that take the sting out of the person it was aimed at?

Yes. Agreed on usage. Nowadays too many people get upset over a word without taking into account the context.

It depends on how it's used.

Scenario: You, me and other retirees are celebrating in a bar. I stand up and say "A round of drinks for all these fucking lifers!" Would you be more likely to get up and leave or say "make mine a double!"?

Some asshole Antifa punk who fucked up and was given a Big Chicken Dinner in his third year calls me a "lifer". Is that an insult? Yes, it is, but he's a fucking douchebag so I don't let it bother me.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Well you were an ROTC kid who then did 6 years in the marines before being RIF'd out and you joined the naval reserves. "Career service members" is usually reserved for those who spent 20 years active duty.


Lets please keep it honest.

Once again, your anger issues and mental illness has led you to misconstrue the facts. Kindly keep it to the war zone.

 

[Underdog]

Once again, your anger issues and mental illness has led you to misconstrue the facts. Kindly keep it to the war zone.

I am not warring with you here, I am going by the things you said, which would not make you a career military person, a retired reservist. No anger, just the facts.


have a great day. Please try to stay honest about your service. thanks. This conversation is over.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I really was not talking about body count. I was talking about the geopolitical and strategic consequences of the decsion to wage war.

I think it would have been a major strategic disaster for the militaristic Imperial German dictatorship to overrun the western liberal democracies during their 1918 offensive. The French army was on the verge of utter collapse, and if we had not shown up, German militarism would have dominated the continent.

And it would have been a strategic mistake to let communist North Korea and their communist Chinese and Soviet allies to overrun South Korea in 1950.

It goes without saying that despite the bloodshed, our involvement in WW2 on balance, was morally justified.

That's a much more complicated issue.

How would both the world and the US be different if we didn't fight WWI? WWII? Let China have the Korean Peninsula? All of SouthEast Asia? If we'd helped rebuilding Afghanistan after the Soviets left? Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

We could each easily write a 10-15 paper from opposing views on each war and both the circumstances and aftermath of each. That's a lot of writing.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I am now warring with you here, I am going by the things you said, which would not make you a career military person, a retired reservist. No anger, just the facts.


have a great day. Please try to stay honest about your service. thanks. This conversation is over.

I showed you my ID card. Why do you hide all evidence of your service? Not a single shred of proof exists that you are what you claim.

Just keeping it honest and factual. Please try to stay honest about your life, your career, your education and your legal disposition.