Portlandia Loves Itself some Marxism

Guille said:
You know Marx married into a royal family, right?
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You are mistaken. Jenny von Westphalen's family was a low level noble, but in no way royal. The "von" is a hint they were noble, but not royal. She had distant relatives that were higher English and Scottish nobles, but no known royal relatives. Her family were always beneath sovereign families, and thus were nobles not royals.

I hope this helps you.
 
Walt said:
You are mistaken. Jenny von Westphalen's family was a low level noble, but in no way royal. The "von" is a hint they were noble, but not royal. She had distant relatives that were higher English and Scottish nobles, but no known royal relatives. Her family were always beneath sovereign families, and thus were nobles not royals.

I hope this helps you.
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von Westphalen? I don't know whose ass you pulled that out of but...no.
 
Guille said:
The Russians did not pay Marx to do that. They were Imperial until 1918. Try again.
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The Russian Czars' government paid Marx to try to destabilize the UK. Communists were often used by monarchists to try to destabilize each other. Lenin was transported to Russia by the Germans.
 
Walt said:
The Russian Czars' government paid Marx to try to destabilize the UK. Communists were often used by monarchists to try to destabilize each other. Lenin was transported to Russia by the Germans.
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No, they didn't, asswipe. The Russians had no interest in that. Guess who did? It wasn't Russia.

Did you get your fucking history entirely from movies?
 
Guille said:
von Westphalen? I don't know whose ass you pulled that out of but...no.
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Jenny von Westphalen is the name that Karl Marx's wife was born with. "Von" is basically the German version of "of", so she was Jenny of Westphalen, a noble name. Nobles claim to be of a place, where commoners have normal last names.
 
Walt said:
Jenny von Westphalen is the name that Karl Marx's wife was born with. "Von" is basically the German version of "of", so she was Jenny of Westphalen, a noble name. Nobles claim to be of a place, where commoners have normal last names.
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Is this the "new" history?
 
Guille said:
No, they didn't, asswipe. The Russians had no interest in that. Guess who did? It wasn't Russia.
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The UK and France were pulling Europe towards freedom, while the Russians were pulling towards absolute monarchy. There was a long standing rivalry there. Meanwhile, Germany was not even a fully formed country, so no one took it seriously. Russia was eager to quietly support anyone who would destabilize the more democratic western powers.

And Marx gave Russia nothing to fear. He believed only capitalism as it existed in the west could produce communism. The traditional feudalism of Russia would first have to become a modern capitalist economy, and then could become communist. Marx estimated it would take "two hundred years" for that to happen.

Communism has always had to confront the problem that they were not born from capitalist systems. Russia was very backwards with almost no proletarians(industrial workers). China was even worse. The solution Stalin had was to try to force the peasants to become proletarians after the revolution. Millions died as he forced them into the cities. Mao's solution was even more basic, where he tried to force the people to become new peasants, and then later proletarians. Pol Pot tried to start over from "year one", and force people even further back.
 
Guille said:
Is this the "new" history?
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Jenny von Westphalen Marx has always been taught to be the wife of Karl Marx. Some history can be debated, but who married who is pretty solid. She was of a minor noble family, but distantly related to some major noble families in Scotland and England. Again legitimate family relations are pretty solid history unlikely to change much.

You started out by claiming that Marx married into a royal family, and now do not even know the name of his wife? It sounds like you have just heard a few random things about Marx.
 
Walt said:
Jenny von Westphalen Marx has always been taught to be the wife of Karl Marx. Some history can be debated, but who married who is pretty solid. She was of a minor noble family, but distantly related to some major noble families in Scotland and England. Again legitimate family relations are pretty solid history unlikely to change much.

You started out by claiming that Marx married into a royal family, and now do not even know the name of his wife? It sounds like you have just heard a few random things about Marx.
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Yep, the new history.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
I'm not surprised that the Fascists and Marxists are aligned and working together. It's only once they take power that they turn on each other.
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The useful idiots chanting "Black Lives Matter" on the streets will be the first to get told by their betters that their participation is no longer necessary.
 
Walt said:
Deutschland built itself up three times with pragmatic taking from socialism. It started with Bismarck, and his pragmatic use of a socialist welfare state that turned Germany from a backwater to a superpower. Germany was destroyed by WWI caused by Bismarck's non-socialist nationalism. But it began rebuilding again under the mild socialism of the Weimar Republic. The socialists were eliminated by the Nazis, while the Centrists (the preceding party to the conservative Christian Democrats) joined the Nazis. After the Nazis destroyed Germany again, the pragmatic Christian Democrats partnered with the socialist Social Democrats to rebuild Western Germany into an economic powerhouse. Corporate governances are required to have union representation, and workers boards proliferate throughout Germany.
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The socialists eliminated the socialists. And people accuse market liberalism of being dog-eat-dog.
 
Guille said:
Yep, the new history.
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In your version of history, who married Karl Marx?

Just admit you are wrong. I actually know quite a bit about Russian, German, British, and communist history. I am weak on Jewish history, which is odd given my ancestry. Next time try to catch me on Jewish history, you got a good shot.
 
Walt said:
In your version of history, who married Karl Marx?

Just admit you are wrong. I actually know quite a bit about Russian, German, British, and communist history. I am weak on Jewish history, which is odd given my ancestry. Next time try to catch me on Jewish history, you got a good shot.
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I have read much of what you've posted. You don't know shit.
 
Chaz said:
The socialists eliminated the socialists.
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The Latin word sociare gave birth to two different words, socialist, and Nationalsozialismus(Nazism). While they had the same root, they were two very different ideas. The root word means a team, or a group working together. Socialism was an economic system where people work together, while Nationalsozialismus is a governmental system where a nation (ethnically similar people) work together. In German, if Nazism was a form of socialism, it would be two words National Sozialismus.

The Socialists were the only people who voted against the Nazis in the Reichstag. The other parties fell into line, or like the Communists had already been outlawed. The Socialists were immediately outlawed by Hitler, using the Enabling Act. Their leaders were killed, or at least tortured.

Bizarrely enough, the survivors were willing to work with the Christian Democrats after the war, even though the Christian Democrats had worked with the Nazis. Even today, there is broad coalitions in Germany to keep the right wing radicals out of power.
 
Walt said:
The Latin word sociare gave birth to two different words, socialist, and Nationalsozialismus(Nazism). While they had the same root, they were two very different ideas. The root word means a team, or a group working together. Socialism was an economic system where people work together, while Nationalsozialismus is a governmental system where a nation (ethnically similar people) work together. In German, if Nazism was a form of socialism, it would be two words National Sozialismus.

The Socialists were the only people who voted against the Nazis in the Reichstag. The other parties fell into line, or like the Communists had already been outlawed. The Socialists were immediately outlawed by Hitler, using the Enabling Act. Their leaders were killed, or at least tortured.

Bizarrely enough, the survivors were willing to work with the Christian Democrats after the war, even though the Christian Democrats had worked with the Nazis. Even today, there is broad coalitions in Germany to keep the right wing radicals out of power.
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Bullshit. Nazism was distinctly German. Once again you fail history 101.
 
Chaz said:
Socialists do not know what rights even are.
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Socialists would add rights you do not recognize, like the right to healthcare or the right to education. Anyone in the world who can pass the entrance exam in German and a simple criminal background test can get a free education in Germany... And even get paid a minor stipend for living expenses.

There are even rights in Germany and many other countries I do not recognize, like a right to dignity. I always consider dignity to be something internal, but in Germany it is something mandated by the constitution.
 
Guille said:
I have read much of what you've posted. You don't know shit.
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We are debating who married Karl Marx. I have said who I believe married him. You have said that it is a lie, but have been unable to disprove it. That is where we are.
 
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