Portlandia Loves Itself some Marxism

Chaz said:
We just object to people advocating an illberal ideology that causes actual death and other losses of rights. But, that's nothing for us to get angry about, right?

Anyway, it won't be long before Europe embraces actual socialism again, and then you can have your war way.
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Western Europe has proven very stable. They seem further from war than us.

I would consider myself more a Western European moderate conservative, with strong pragmatic roots. I have a lot of respect for Merkel.
 
Walt said:
Western Europe has proven very stable. They seem further from war than us.

I would consider myself more a Western European moderate conservative, with strong pragmatic roots. I have a lot of respect for Merkel.
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They wrecked themselves last century with socialism. Doucheland wasn't unified until the 90s.
 
Grajonca said:
Yeh it does, Corbyn and McDonnell ran on a platform of Socialism and were annihilated by BoJo and Co.
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Labour has 201 seats to the Conservatives 364. That is not winning, but it is also not "annihilated". Starmer does appear to be leading them back from the wilderness, but we shall see.
 
Walt said:
10 were led by socialists. Another 6 had coalitions with socialists as junior partners. And one (France) had a hybrid socialist party with a former socialist as its leader. So that is 10 counties led by socialists.

Marx was just one of the thinkers in socialism, so it is not all together fair to call socialists Marxists. They usually take from Marx, but not all would call themselves Marxists.

As for being a junior partner in a coalition, they must always be offered something. That means they usually run something. Socialists being who they are will usually push for economic departments of government.

There does seem to be a lot of anger these facts are causing some posters. I am not even posting opinions here, just facts without comment on whether I agree or oppose policies.
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Marx was an agent-provocateur...have you not figured this out yet?
 
Chaz said:
They wrecked themselves last century with socialism. Doucheland wasn't unified until the 90s.
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Deutschland built itself up three times with pragmatic taking from socialism. It started with Bismarck, and his pragmatic use of a socialist welfare state that turned Germany from a backwater to a superpower. Germany was destroyed by WWI caused by Bismarck's non-socialist nationalism. But it began rebuilding again under the mild socialism of the Weimar Republic. The socialists were eliminated by the Nazis, while the Centrists (the preceding party to the conservative Christian Democrats) joined the Nazis. After the Nazis destroyed Germany again, the pragmatic Christian Democrats partnered with the socialist Social Democrats to rebuild Western Germany into an economic powerhouse. Corporate governances are required to have union representation, and workers boards proliferate throughout Germany.
 
Walt said:
Deutschland built itself up three times with pragmatic taking from socialism. It started with Bismarck, and his pragmatic use of a socialist welfare state that turned Germany from a backwater to a superpower. Germany was destroyed by WWI caused by Bismarck's non-socialist nationalism. But it began rebuilding again under the mild socialism of the Weimar Republic. The socialists were eliminated by the Nazis, while the Centrists (the preceding party to the conservative Christian Democrats) joined the Nazis. After the Nazis destroyed Germany again, the pragmatic Christian Democrats partnered with the socialist Social Democrats to rebuild Western Germany into an economic powerhouse. Corporate governances are required to have union representation, and workers boards proliferate throughout Germany.
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You do realize that when Bismarck was "building shit up" he was backed by royal families...right?
 
Guille said:
You do realize that when Bismarck was "building shit up" he was backed by royal families...right?
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Actually, he backed the monarchy, but the favor was not always returned. He used pragmatic socialist programs to support keeping the monarchy. Germany became a modern welfare state, with the government guaranteeing the welfare of the people, 50-70 years before France did. Bismarck used the promise of welfare to keep the monarchy, where France did not have a monarchy to keep. That welfare (especially the education and the support for workers) created an economic powerhouse.

Unfortunately for Germany, Bismarck also used strong nationalism to support the monarchy. That caused Germany to have two disastrous wars. It is worth noting that before those two disastrous wars, Bismarck was able to have several dozen successful wars. He was able to hold the system together, but when the Czar removed him, the bad wars started.
 
Walt said:
Actually, he backed the monarchy, but the favor was not always returned. He used pragmatic socialist programs to support keeping the monarchy. Germany became a modern welfare state, with the government guaranteeing the welfare of the people, 50-70 years before France did. Bismarck used the promise of welfare to keep the monarchy, where France did not have a monarchy to keep. That welfare (especially the education and the support for workers) created an economic powerhouse.

Unfortunately for Germany, Bismarck also used strong nationalism to support the monarchy. That caused Germany to have two disastrous wars. It is worth noting that before those two disastrous wars, Bismarck was able to have several dozen successful wars. He was able to hold the system together, but when the Czar removed him, the bad wars started.
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You know two things about German history...jack and shit.

You know Marx married into a royal family, right?
 
Guille said:
Marx was an agent-provocateur...have you not figured this out yet?
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Marx was paid to be an agent provocateur in the UK by the Russians. The Russians did not seem to understand how stable the UK was. The UK was nowhere near as close to revolution as the Russians believed, but paradoxically, the Russians were much closer to revolution than they realized.

Marx himself was a true believer. He was willing to accept money from the Russians, but did not change his positions for them.
 
Walt said:
Marx was paid to be an agent provocateur in the UK by the Russians. The Russians did not seem to understand how stable the UK was. The UK was nowhere near as close to revolution as the Russians believed, but paradoxically, the Russians were much closer to revolution than they realized.

Marx himself was a true believer. He was willing to accept money from the Russians, but did not change his positions for them.
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The Russians did not pay Marx to do that. They were Imperial until 1918. Try again.
 
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