Here's what I don't understand...

you never voted for a single politician in all you days in Alabama that had voted against the equal rights amendment, that had voted against any civil rights amendments, that had voted against any gay rights initiatives? I find that incredibly hard to believe.

I know you find it hard to believe, but those of us under 60 have likely not ever voted for anyone who voted against civil rights... (unless we are Democrats.) The other two things you mention (ERA and Gay Marriage) are subjective to your false opinion that supporting someone voting against those things, is equal to shooting women in the head who don't wear a cover over it, and executing gays for being "defective" as well as other human atrocities committed by alQeda.
 
I know you find it hard to believe, but those of us under 60 have likely not ever voted for anyone who voted against civil rights... (unless we are Democrats.) The other two things you mention (ERA and Gay Marriage) are subjective to your false opinion that supporting someone voting against those things, is equal to shooting women in the head who don't wear a cover over it, and executing gays for being "defective" as well as other human atrocities committed by alQeda.

ridiculous. I have never suggested any such thing. I have suggested that you have voted for people who do not support equality for women and for gays... so all your pontificating about how their fight is YOUR fight is really bullshit, or are you saying that a little bit of inequality and inequity simply because of gender or sexual orientation is a good thing? And I think that you are on record as voting against a state constitutional amendment that would remove the ban against interracial marriage, are you not?
 
I know, and I have shown that assertion to be wholly invalid. First of all, there is no option for many of these people, they can ascribe to radical Islam or fucking die, they have no real choice. This shit is being forced on them against their will, in many cases, and that is part and parcel of the problem! Secondly, there is absolutely nothing in the radical message to foster hope for better equity, in fact, it speaks out against the very equity you claim these people are searching for! Lastly, there is also no mention of personal freedom or freedom from tyranny, quite the contrary, radical Islam preached obedience to the Ayatollah's, Mullah's and Clerics, and following their interpretation of what Allah wants, forsaking your own personal freedoms! Nothing about radical Islam preaches equality for women or gays, or religious tolerance, again... quite the contrary!

The basis and premise of you argument is absurd and devoid of logic, it has no basis in reality, and no evidence of support. It is a dusted-off template of an argument for inner-city youth being attracted to gangs, and in THAT scenario, you may have some kind of a point, but that is NOT what radical Islam is about, it has nothing to do with the same dynamics or motivations, and for you to continue to stubbornly cling to something that is completely out of the realm of rationalization, is evidence of your own moral cowardice and lack of ethics.

I have never suggested that radical islam promised better economic conditions or personal freedom. I have suggested that an environment where such things are clearly pipedreams... where any real hope for an improvement in one's material lot is out of the question... makes radical islam more attractive. And lay off the moral cowardice and lack of ethics insults. You can do better than that.
 
you never voted for a single politician in all you days in Alabama that had voted against the equal rights amendment, that had voted against any civil rights amendments, that had voted against any gay rights initiatives? I find that incredibly hard to believe.

ridiculous. I have never suggested any such thing. I have suggested that you have voted for people who do not support equality for women and for gays...

In one breath you accuse me of voting for people who voted against Civil Rights, in the next, you say you never said any such thing! Maine, your comments are right here in black and white! You most certainly DID accuse me of voting for people who didn't support Civil Rights, and that is a lie. It is also disingenuous to claim voting for people who may have opposed the ERA, a pointless legislation of the 70's which about 80% of the country didn't see the need in having, somehow disqualifies me from speaking out against horrible discriminatory injustices against women. You stretch this absurd accusation further, to include Gay Marriage, which is not equal to executing gays who are "defective" humans! Two entirely different things there, Maine! Because I don't feel gay people should be given the EXTRA right of being able to marry, doesn't disqualify me from speaking out and taking a stand against the immorality of executing gays. These are absurd examples of how you will argue your point by hitting way below the belt.

And I think that you are on record as voting against a state constitutional amendment that would remove the ban against interracial marriage, are you not?

Nope. Again, you are mistaken about what I have supported. Again, it doesn't matter what I have supported in the past, as long as it doesn't equate with what radical Islam is advocating. The gist of your argument has now devolved into discrediting my right to speak out against injustice. That is really pathetic Maine, even for you!

I have never suggested that radical islam promised better economic conditions or personal freedom. I have suggested that an environment where such things are clearly pipedreams... where any real hope for an improvement in one's material lot is out of the question... makes radical islam more attractive. And lay off the moral cowardice and lack of ethics insults. You can do better than that.

Well, yes, not only have you suggested it, you have outright said, economic conditions are the motivation for people to choose radical Islam. The only "real hope" for these people to have improvement in their "material lot" is through the freedom fostered by western-style democracy, not through radical Islam! The teachings and preaching of radical Islam is CONTRARY to that pipedream! You're actually presenting more of a reason for people of the region to join the fight with us, AGAINST radical Islam! (Which many of them have done!)

I apply the moral cowardice label because it fits! I demonstrated here, how you lack ethics! You are so devoid of ethics, you have to paint me as something I am not, and try to discredit my integrity to stand up and fight against evil. I suggest, if you don't like those labels, start behaving with some level of moral courage and ethics!
 
Maineman is from the portion of totalitarians in our government who will defend any form authoritarian ideology. That's why he's so keen on Islam.
 
In one breath you accuse me of voting for people who voted against Civil Rights, in the next, you say you never said any such thing! Maine, your comments are right here in black and white! You most certainly DID accuse me of voting for people who didn't support Civil Rights, and that is a lie.

what I think is ridiculous is THIS from your post:
"your false opinion that supporting someone voting against those things, is equal to shooting women in the head who don't wear a cover over it, and executing gays for being "defective" as well as other human atrocities committed by alQeda."

I DO accuse you of voting for people who did not support civil rights. I do accuse you of voting against a state constitutional amendment that would remove racist language from the Alabama constitution. You yourself have admitted as much.
It is also disingenuous to claim voting for people who may have opposed the ERA, a pointless legislation of the 70's which about 80% of the country didn't see the need in having, somehow disqualifies me from speaking out against horrible discriminatory injustices against women. You stretch this absurd accusation further, to include Gay Marriage, which is not equal to executing gays who are "defective" humans! Two entirely different things there, Maine! Because I don't feel gay people should be given the EXTRA right of being able to marry, doesn't disqualify me from speaking out and taking a stand against the immorality of executing gays. These are absurd examples of how you will argue your point by hitting way below the belt.
You point out differences in degree only...not in kind. Please tell me how allowing two gays to marry is an EXTRA right simply because their genitalia is the same.


Nope. Again, you are mistaken about what I have supported. Again, it doesn't matter what I have supported in the past, as long as it doesn't equate with what radical Islam is advocating. The gist of your argument has now devolved into discrediting my right to speak out against injustice. That is really pathetic Maine, even for you!

I have no problem with you speaking out against injustice. I encourage you to speak out about it. I merely discourage your attempting to foist your irrational and inconsistent attitudes on our country's foreign policy and your willingness to use other American citizen's blood to advance your views when you yourself - even after being cured from your mysterious blood disorder - never found the time to put your OWN life in harm's way for your country.



Well, yes, not only have you suggested it, you have outright said, economic conditions are the motivation for people to choose radical Islam. The only "real hope" for these people to have improvement in their "material lot" is through the freedom fostered by western-style democracy, not through radical Islam! The teachings and preaching of radical Islam is CONTRARY to that pipedream! You're actually presenting more of a reason for people of the region to join the fight with us, AGAINST radical Islam! (Which many of them have done!)
That would make sense to the western mind... odd that it doesn't seem to work out that way very often. As I said before.... sunny cool summer days increase attendance at Red Sox games. That does NOT mean that Baseball is "ABOUT" weather.

I apply the moral cowardice label because it fits! I demonstrated here, how you lack ethics! You are so devoid of ethics, you have to paint me as something I am not, and try to discredit my integrity to stand up and fight against evil. I suggest, if you don't like those labels, start behaving with some level of moral courage and ethics!

if you really want to stand up and fight against evil, why don't you go do it and quit blathering about it from the comfort and safety of your home office? And you call ME a coward???? :lmao:
 
what I think is ridiculous is THIS from your post:
"your false opinion that supporting someone voting against those things, is equal to shooting women in the head who don't wear a cover over it, and executing gays for being "defective" as well as other human atrocities committed by alQeda."

I DO accuse you of voting for people who did not support civil rights. I do accuse you of voting against a state constitutional amendment that would remove racist language from the Alabama constitution. You yourself have admitted as much.
You point out differences in degree only...not in kind. Please tell me how allowing two gays to marry is an EXTRA right simply because their genitalia is the same.

Because no two people with the same genitalia are currently allowed to marry, gay or not! That's how! My position on gay marriage does not equal discrimination against gay people, much less, discrimination to the point of advocating they be executed for being inferior, as alQaeda believes. You are throwing out a red herring here, and it has no basis in this debate.

I have also NOT voted for anyone who did not support Civil Rights! The state measure you speak of, has been discussed, and I thoroughly explained my rationale for my vote, and it was NOT because I advocate discrimination against blacks or any racist viewpoint. The specific legislation in question contained a hidden tax increase, which the governor had already vetoed and vowed not to let the Democratic state legislature pass! They slipped it into a phony bill regarding the "removal of racist language" in our state constitution, a document that is the longest constitution in the world at over 700 pages, in hopes of getting the tax increase they wanted anyway! It was a dirty Democratic TRICK to get a tax increase, and it was REJECTED by the people of my state resoundingly. I'm sorry if you personally view that as a "racist" sentiment on my part, but it has been explained to you, and it was not as you like to claim. Regardless, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic we are debating, it is yet another cheesy attempt to divert the topic and excuse deplorable violations of human rights by impugning my character.

I have no problem with you speaking out against injustice. I encourage you to speak out about it. I merely discourage your attempting to foist your irrational and inconsistent attitudes on our country's foreign policy and your willingness to use other American citizen's blood to advance your views when you yourself - even after being cured from your mysterious blood disorder - never found the time to put your OWN life in harm's way for your country.

My blood disorder in 1978 has nothing to do with this debate, my service or lack of service, has nothing to do with this debate! You don't have the right to tell me what my rights are! Nothing about MY attitudes are inconsistent or irrational, however, as I have pointed out, yours certainly are!

That would make sense to the western mind... odd that it doesn't seem to work out that way very often. As I said before.... sunny cool summer days increase attendance at Red Sox games. That does NOT mean that Baseball is "ABOUT" weather.

It's working out that way for about 85% of the Iraqi general public at present. Perhaps it's as you claim, they are disillusioned with the hopelessness of radical Islam and seek the promise of economic equity through western-style democracy? THAT makes sense! What you tried to argue is devoid of logic. This has nothing to do with baseball games, please stay on topic.


if you really want to stand up and fight against evil, why don't you go do it and quit blathering about it from the comfort and safety of your home office? And you call ME a coward???? :lmao:

Yes, I call you a moral coward because that is what you are! For your own petty selfish reasons, you refuse to acknowledge the evil of radical Islam and the need for us to stand united against it. Instead, you want to prop up phony excuses and reasons we should continue to allow it to thrive and grow, and pretend it is our own fault it is happening in the first place. You are perfectly okay with these thugs torturing women and children, executing homosexuals, and denying people any personal freedom at all! As long as you don't have to get your hands dirty, as long as you don't have to allow your tax dollars to be spent to combat it! You couldn't care less about these people, you're completely hung up in your own little insulated world, where you can claim to be some big shot and impugn the integrity of others at will.

When it comes to what you are, "moral coward" is putting it nicely!
 
Because no two people with the same genitalia are currently allowed to marry, gay or not! That's how! My position on gay marriage does not equal discrimination against gay people, much less, discrimination to the point of advocating they be executed for being inferior, as alQaeda believes. You are throwing out a red herring here, and it has no basis in this debate.

just because they are not afforded the rights of other citizens does not mean the granting of those rights as something "extra". Are you suggesting that when your state finally allowed blacks to ride at the front of the bus, that this was somehow an "extra" right for blacks?

I have also NOT voted for anyone who did not support Civil Rights! The state measure you speak of, has been discussed, and I thoroughly explained my rationale for my vote, and it was NOT because I advocate discrimination against blacks or any racist viewpoint. The specific legislation in question contained a hidden tax increase, which the governor had already vetoed and vowed not to let the Democratic state legislature pass! They slipped it into a phony bill regarding the "removal of racist language" in our state constitution, a document that is the longest constitution in the world at over 700 pages, in hopes of getting the tax increase they wanted anyway! It was a dirty Democratic TRICK to get a tax increase, and it was REJECTED by the people of my state resoundingly. I'm sorry if you personally view that as a "racist" sentiment on my part, but it has been explained to you, and it was not as you like to claim. Regardless, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic we are debating, it is yet another cheesy attempt to divert the topic and excuse deplorable violations of human rights by impugning my character.

tapdance all you want. you are perfectly happy with inequity based on race, gender, and sexual orientation as long as it isn't "violent". I, on the other hand, happen to be against it all, violent or otherwise

My blood disorder in 1978 has nothing to do with this debate, my service or lack of service, has nothing to do with this debate! You don't have the right to tell me what my rights are! Nothing about MY attitudes are inconsistent or irrational, however, as I have pointed out, yours certainly are!

I disagree. I take issue with people who found ways to avoid serving in harm's way themselves later turning around and being all bellicose regarding our foreign policy when they ask other Americans to go fight and die for their beliefs.

It's working out that way for about 85% of the Iraqi general public at present. Perhaps it's as you claim, they are disillusioned with the hopelessness of radical Islam and seek the promise of economic equity through western-style democracy? THAT makes sense! What you tried to argue is devoid of logic. This has nothing to do with baseball games, please stay on topic.

Thanks to Saddam, AQ never really had an opportunity to recruit much in Iraq... and its secular western style economy. And are you aware of the literary device called an "analogy"? Look it up if you need to.


Yes, I call you a moral coward because that is what you are! For your own petty selfish reasons, you refuse to acknowledge the evil of radical Islam and the need for us to stand united against it. Instead, you want to prop up phony excuses and reasons we should continue to allow it to thrive and grow, and pretend it is our own fault it is happening in the first place. You are perfectly okay with these thugs torturing women and children, executing homosexuals, and denying people any personal freedom at all! As long as you don't have to get your hands dirty, as long as you don't have to allow your tax dollars to be spent to combat it! You couldn't care less about these people, you're completely hung up in your own little insulated world, where you can claim to be some big shot and impugn the integrity of others at will.

When it comes to what you are, "moral coward" is putting it nicely!

If you'll recall, I volunteered to go back on active duty to put myself in harm's way (again) in order to fight the evils of radical Islam. I showed my willingness to get my hands dirty often in my military career. I don't claim to be a big shot at all, Dixie...I merely am who I am and I have done what I have done in life and I have few regrets. I am proud of my service to our country. I have no problem in fighting a war against radical Islam. I think that the biggest mistake your hunky boytoy in bluejeans ever made was to abandon the fight against Al Qaeda so that he could invade, conquer and occupy Iraq. Up until he made that fatal mistake, he had my support. After that mistake, he never got it back.
 
Actually, Islam is a classed system. Non islamic people living in an islam controlled state, are know as dhimmi, they are officially of a second class status.

So, between taquiyah, and dhimmitude, we see islam condones lying, and is, indeed, classist.
 
just because they are not afforded the rights of other citizens does not mean the granting of those rights as something "extra". Are you suggesting that when your state finally allowed blacks to ride at the front of the bus, that this was somehow an "extra" right for blacks?

Gays have every single solitary right of anyone else in America to marry someone of the opposite sex. They seek an additional or extra right, to marry their own gender, which no one has. It has absolutely nothing to do with Civil Rights, or Northern-owned bus companies rules on where blacks could ride on a public bus in the 1960's. In that case, clearly, some people were afforded a particular right that blacks were not afforded. This is clearly not the case with Gay Marriage.

tapdance all you want. you are perfectly happy with inequity based on race, gender, and sexual orientation as long as it isn't "violent". I, on the other hand, happen to be against it all, violent or otherwise

No, I am not for inequity, inequality, either violent or non violent, against anyone anywhere on the planet. You are okay with it as long as you don't have to fight to prevent it.

I disagree. I take issue with people who found ways to avoid serving in harm's way themselves later turning around and being all bellicose regarding our foreign policy when they ask other Americans to go fight and die for their beliefs.


I'm going to put you back on ignore if you just want to continue to repeat the same personal attacks on me, instead of discussing the topic.


Thanks to Saddam, AQ never really had an opportunity to recruit much in Iraq... and its secular western style economy. And are you aware of the literary device called an "analogy"? Look it up if you need to.

It's an invalid analogy, and thanks for pointing out, Saddam and Iraq have nothing whatsoever to do with this argument. I have been saying that since it was first brought up! Now maybe we can return to the actual TOPIC!

If you'll recall, I volunteered to go back on active duty to put myself in harm's way (again) in order to fight the evils of radical Islam. I showed my willingness to get my hands dirty often in my military career. I don't claim to be a big shot at all, Dixie...I merely am who I am and I have done what I have done in life and I have few regrets. I am proud of my service to our country. I have no problem in fighting a war against radical Islam. I think that the biggest mistake your hunky boytoy in bluejeans ever made was to abandon the fight against Al Qaeda so that he could invade, conquer and occupy Iraq. Up until he made that fatal mistake, he had my support. After that mistake, he never got it back.

Until this rant, you have expressed NO interest whatsoever, in fighting radical Islam. You have made excuses and presented illogical explanations for radical Islam, and attempted to blame America for the problem. I find it hard to believe you are honestly willing to fight anything or put your elitist ass on the line for your country in any way. You simply use the Bush Card to excuse yourself from responsibility... again, the mark of a true moral coward.
 
Gays have every single solitary right of anyone else in America to marry someone of the opposite sex. They seek an additional or extra right, to marry their own gender, which no one has. It has absolutely nothing to do with Civil Rights, or Northern-owned bus companies rules on where blacks could ride on a public bus in the 1960's. In that case, clearly, some people were afforded a particular right that blacks were not afforded. This is clearly not the case with Gay Marriage.
silly semantic games... gays are not allowed the same rights regarding marriage as straight people. I was allowed to marry the person that I loved. My gay neighbor does not have that right.

No, I am not for inequity, inequality, either violent or non violent, against anyone anywhere on the planet. You are okay with it as long as you don't have to fight to prevent it.
did you march for civil rights in the south? have you done anything other than tap your keyboard to secure equal pay for equal work for women in America? And the fact remains: I have served MY country in harm's way... you have not. I volunteered to go BACK on active duty to fight Al Qaeda... you did nothing other than blather on from behind the safety of your home office.

I'm going to put you back on ignore if you just want to continue to repeat the same personal attacks on me, instead of discussing the topic.
facts are facts.

It's an invalid analogy, and thanks for pointing out, Saddam and Iraq have nothing whatsoever to do with this argument. I have been saying that since it was first brought up! Now maybe we can return to the actual TOPIC!
Had we not invaded Iraq, we could have spent the last seven years actually doing something about AQ. That has always been my overriding gripe with Bush: the terrible mistake of invading Iraq - which you fully supported.

Until this rant, you have expressed NO interest whatsoever, in fighting radical Islam. You have made excuses and presented illogical explanations for radical Islam, and attempted to blame America for the problem. I find it hard to believe you are honestly willing to fight anything or put your elitist ass on the line for your country in any way. You simply use the Bush Card to excuse yourself from responsibility... again, the mark of a true moral coward.

that'a a lie. I have always been supportive of any efforts to seek out and destroy AQ. And again... as we both know, my "elitist ass" was on the line for our country for a quarter of a century, while your cowardly ass has avoided service your whole life. Look in the mirror, Dixie.... cast your eyes on a coward and a failure.
 
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silly semantic games... gays are not allowed the same rights regarding marriage as straight people. I was allowed to marry the person that I loved. My gay neighbor does not have that right.

Your gay neighbor has the right to marry the person that you love.

:cof1:
 
Let me say, it is horrible, especially the way women are still treated....but, the european and new world hasn't treated women all that great either over a millenium or two or three!!!

It isn't black or white Dixie....

At least on how to remedy the situation.

Some, believe that we should try to fix what is "wrong" as creatively and as best as we can, without going to war... (how to do that is hard fo me to say, but I am certain intelligence experts using their ingenuity can figure out a way to work on it!), without the accidental killing of innocent people/ the "collateral damage" while doing such,

and others believe that war is the answer to "all"...no matter the destruction, no matter the decimation of families due to death of a member, no matter the expense...the end will always justify the means....I don't agree with that, as you well know!


War is not always a Just War, even if it is for a ''good cause'' Dixie, not if you harm or kill many innocent people in the process....read up on Just War Theory....sometimes, things can be made worse. The Wise man, knows.

care

Is defending jewish ethnic supremacist states a just war?
 
It's only fitting that a thread outlining things Dixie doesn't understand should go on for eleven pages and one hundred and fifty-seven posts.
 
It's only fitting that a thread outlining things Dixie doesn't understand should go on for eleven pages and one hundred and fifty-seven posts.

True. But if the full list is ever completed you do realise the internets will almost certainly collapse.
 
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