Here's what I don't understand...

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

wow...you are long winded. I really have no desire to communicate with you in novelettes. Radical Islam is fueled by economic hardship and dictatorial government. That is a fact. The vast majority of the muslims in this world do NOT ascribe to that philosophy. That is also a fact.

I have never stated that the vast majority of Muslims ascribe to the radical Muslim philosophy... if that were the case, we wouldn't call it "radical" Islam, we would call it "mainstream" Islam. In this thread, the only people who have alluded to that view, are those on your side, who repeatedly mock my side, claiming we are advocating "killing them all" when that is not what anyone has suggested.

Radical Islam is not fueled by, nor has a thing to do with, economic hardship or dictatorial government! Nothing in radical Islamic teaching promises anything regarding greater wealth and prosperity, or personal freedom. It is a fundamentalist religious belief, rooted primarily in protest to liberalization of women and religious freedom, which is the result of western cultural civilization. You continue to ignore this fact of the matter, and attempt to 'excuse' the behavior based on a wrong-headed idea that it's about economic plight. It is no more about "economic plight" than segregationist racism was in 1960 America! It's about a brutal and discriminatory bigoted religious viewpoint, and spreading that across the Arab world.

 

[maineman]

I have never stated that the vast majority of Muslims ascribe to the radical Muslim philosophy... if that were the case, we wouldn't call it "radical" Islam, we would call it "mainstream" Islam. In this thread, the only people who have alluded to that view, are those on your side, who repeatedly mock my side, claiming we are advocating "killing them all" when that is not what anyone has suggested.

Radical Islam is not fueled by, nor has a thing to do with, economic hardship or dictatorial government! Nothing in radical Islamic teaching promises anything regarding greater wealth and prosperity, or personal freedom. It is a fundamentalist religious belief, rooted primarily in protest to liberalization of women and religious freedom, which is the result of western cultural civilization. You continue to ignore this fact of the matter, and attempt to 'excuse' the behavior based on a wrong-headed idea that it's about economic plight. It is no more about "economic plight" than segregationist racism was in 1960 America! It's about a brutal and discriminatory bigoted religious viewpoint, and spreading that across the Arab world.

I have never said that radical islam was "about" economic plight. I have said that socioeconomic inequity and dictatorial governments provide the environment that breeds the dissatisfaction and malaise that radical islam offers a compelling answer to.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

I have never said that radical islam was "about" economic plight. I have said that socioeconomic inequity and dictatorial governments provide the environment that breeds the dissatisfaction and malaise that radical islam offers a compelling answer to.

meadowmuffins

and if their economic situation were improved, the number of them who would continue to hold those radical beliefs would radically diminish.

keep your stories straight

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I have never said that radical islam was "about" economic plight. I have said that socioeconomic inequity and dictatorial governments provide the environment that breeds the dissatisfaction and malaise that radical islam offers a compelling answer to.

The socioeconomic disparity and inequality is part and parcel of the Islamic religious view, maine! How many vibrant Islamic Democracies do you know of? Please show me an example of Islamic Democratic government, where people have equal rights and an equal voice in government! When left to their own devices, they empower religious fanatics like Ayatollah Khomeini, they don't adopt civilized democracy or enable freedom and liberty for all! THAT IS THEIR ANSWER!

Once again, I have shown where your viewpoint is absolutely devoid of logic. You continue to yammer on about a point that doesn't comport with reality! Regardless of all of this, regardless of what their rationale is or WHY they are compelled to embrace radical Islam, we know what we know! Radical Islam is brutally violent, discriminatory against women and gays, intolerant of anything that doesn't conform to the strict interpretations of Islamic faith. It really honestly shouldn't matter WHY they embrace it!

 

[maineman]

The socioeconomic disparity and inequality is part and parcel of the Islamic religious view, maine! How many vibrant Islamic Democracies do you know of? Please show me an example of Islamic Democratic government, where people have equal rights and an equal voice in government! When left to their own devices, they empower religious fanatics like Ayatollah Khomeini, they don't adopt civilized democracy or enable freedom and liberty for all! THAT IS THEIR ANSWER!

Once again, I have shown where your viewpoint is absolutely devoid of logic. You continue to yammer on about a point that doesn't comport with reality! Regardless of all of this, regardless of what their rationale is or WHY they are compelled to embrace radical Islam, we know what we know! Radical Islam is brutally violent, discriminatory against women and gays, intolerant of anything that doesn't conform to the strict interpretations of Islamic faith. It really honestly shouldn't matter WHY they embrace it!

Your characterization of the violence and discrimination of radical Islam is fairly accurate. It is only a small sliver of the Islamic world that holds to those beliefs, however. the governments of the middle east are, for the most part, muslim in name only... and their secular tyranny is a major factor in the rise of radical islam. As I said, radical islam's attraction grows as socioeconomy inequity widens.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Your characterization of the violence and discrimination of radical Islam is fairly accurate. It is only a small sliver of the Islamic world that holds to those beliefs, however. the governments of the middle east are, for the most part, muslim in name only... and their secular tyranny is a major factor in the rise of radical islam. As I said, radical islam's attraction grows as socioeconomy inequity widens.

You continue to spit the fallacy out, but there is no basis in reality or logic for it. As I have repeatedly said, radical Islam doesn't promise equity, doesn't promise personal wealth or personal freedom. When radical Islam has been given the opportunity to govern, they have chosen the tyranny of people like Ayatollah Khomeini, not civilized democracy and individual freedom.

What you are trying to say, is like claiming someone set their boat on fire because it was sinking! It simply doesn't comport with logic, it's devoid of reason, it has no basis in rationality. The fundamentalist beliefs of radical Islam do not even condone personal freedom and liberty, much less personal wealth and economic equity. How in the hell can THAT be the attraction?

I may not fully understand Islam, or what it's all about, but here is what I do understand... Treating women like property and subhuman subservient slaves to their husbands, executing gays because they are "defective" human beings, rounding up people of different religious faith in stadiums and shooting them in the back of the head, is deplorable human behavior. I honestly don't give a rat's ass as to WHY the fuck they are doing it! That's the point you are missing here! You are hung up on trying to argue you idiotic "explanation" which is devoid of logic, and I am saying it doesn't fucking matter WHY they are doing this!

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

You continue to spit the fallacy out, but there is no basis in reality or logic for it. As I have repeatedly said, radical Islam doesn't promise equity, doesn't promise personal wealth or personal freedom. When radical Islam has been given the opportunity to govern, they have chosen the tyranny of people like Ayatollah Khomeini, not civilized democracy and individual freedom.

What you are trying to say, is like claiming someone set their boat on fire because it was sinking! It simply doesn't comport with logic, it's devoid of reason, it has no basis in rationality. The fundamentalist beliefs of radical Islam do not even condone personal freedom and liberty, much less personal wealth and economic equity. How in the hell can THAT be the attraction?

I may not fully understand Islam, or what it's all about, but here is what I do understand... Treating women like property and subhuman subservient slaves to their husbands, executing gays because they are "defective" human beings, rounding up people of different religious faith in stadiums and shooting them in the back of the head, is deplorable human behavior. I honestly don't give a rat's ass as to WHY the fuck they are doing it! That's the point you are missing here! You are hung up on trying to argue you idiotic "explanation" which is devoid of logic, and I am saying it doesn't fucking matter WHY they are doing this!

absolutely brilliant post! he doesn't get it because he is rigidly sticking to his western mindset whle trying to figure out a nonwestern religious mindset. it is why he refuses to discuss the FACT that obl is loaded, the hijackers were NOT poor and were in fact from decently well off families...

it is an epic fail but he is of the belief that he is never wrong and taht if he merely keeps eating and spewing meadowmuffins then ultimately he will be right!

 

[Care4all]

You continue to spit the fallacy out, but there is no basis in reality or logic for it. As I have repeatedly said, radical Islam doesn't promise equity, doesn't promise personal wealth or personal freedom. When radical Islam has been given the opportunity to govern, they have chosen the tyranny of people like Ayatollah Khomeini, not civilized democracy and individual freedom.

What you are trying to say, is like claiming someone set their boat on fire because it was sinking! It simply doesn't comport with logic, it's devoid of reason, it has no basis in rationality. The fundamentalist beliefs of radical Islam do not even condone personal freedom and liberty, much less personal wealth and economic equity. How in the hell can THAT be the attraction?

I may not fully understand Islam, or what it's all about, but here is what I do understand... Treating women like property and subhuman subservient slaves to their husbands, executing gays because they are "defective" human beings, rounding up people of different religious faith in stadiums and shooting them in the back of the head, is deplorable human behavior. I honestly don't give a rat's ass as to WHY the fuck they are doing it! That's the point you are missing here! You are hung up on trying to argue you idiotic "explanation" which is devoid of logic, and I am saying it doesn't fucking matter WHY they are doing this!

how do you explain saddam? he was as secular as they come and was not a jihadist? women had careers, girls were educated in schools? yet, he was still brutal...?

people here in america, tie gays to the back of cars, drag them, and kill them or beat and kick them to death, we lynched blacks just because of their skin color, men held women subservant to men for centuries, right here in the usa, we had slaves and treated them brutally in some cases, we slaughtered indians because we thought they were savages or wanted their lands, we had citizens that did the oklahoma city bombings killing hundreds etc etc etc.....but the MAJORITY of us here in America are good people and never did those things i listed....the same can be said for muslims.

 

[maineman]

You continue to spit the fallacy out, but there is no basis in reality or logic for it. As I have repeatedly said, radical Islam doesn't promise equity, doesn't promise personal wealth or personal freedom. When radical Islam has been given the opportunity to govern, they have chosen the tyranny of people like Ayatollah Khomeini, not civilized democracy and individual freedom.

What you are trying to say, is like claiming someone set their boat on fire because it was sinking! It simply doesn't comport with logic, it's devoid of reason, it has no basis in rationality. The fundamentalist beliefs of radical Islam do not even condone personal freedom and liberty, much less personal wealth and economic equity. How in the hell can THAT be the attraction?

I may not fully understand Islam, or what it's all about, but here is what I do understand... Treating women like property and subhuman subservient slaves to their husbands, executing gays because they are "defective" human beings, rounding up people of different religious faith in stadiums and shooting them in the back of the head, is deplorable human behavior. I honestly don't give a rat's ass as to WHY the fuck they are doing it! That's the point you are missing here! You are hung up on trying to argue you idiotic "explanation" which is devoid of logic, and I am saying it doesn't fucking matter WHY they are doing this!

you seem to bounce back and forth between a disdain for radical islam and a disdain for islam. Until you figure out what you really dislike, you will continue to babble in incoherent ways.

I have never suggested that radical islam promised wealth or economic equity, only that a lack of those things is a major factor in people seeing radical islam as an alternative.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

you seem to bounce back and forth between a disdain for radical islam and a disdain for islam. Until you figure out what you really dislike, you will continue to babble in incoherent ways.

I have never suggested that radical islam promised wealth or economic equity, only that a lack of those things is a major factor in people seeing radical islam as an alternative.

Islam is radical. The whole concept of moderate islam is to feed to stupid westerners.

Islam also believes in taquiyah, or lying about the religion to outsiders, like stupide liberals, for instance.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

you seem to bounce back and forth between a disdain for radical islam and a disdain for islam. Until you figure out what you really dislike, you will continue to babble in incoherent ways.

I have never suggested that radical islam promised wealth or economic equity, only that a lack of those things is a major factor in people seeing radical islam as an alternative.

How exactly does that comport with logic, Maine? Please tell me!! How can something that is completely opposed to personal freedom and liberty, and speaks against the material 'wealth' of western culture, be an 'alternative' to people who live in abject poverty? That makes no sense whatsoever! There is no fundamental reason for them to be attracted to radical Islam as a means to achieve improvement of their economic conditions or personal freedoms. NONE! ZILCH! NADDA! Are you trying to say these people are insane to the point they are acting in logical contradiction of reality? Because that is about the ONLY way your viewpoint makes ANY sense!

Here's what I dislike, so you are clear on it... I dislike religiously-based ideologies which oppose personal freedom, and instead, teach and practice discrimination and violence against women, gays, and people of different religious beliefs. I dislike them to the point I feel compelled to fight them and defeat them, and eliminate them from this planet. Apparently, you are okay with them, and you are able to understand why they brutally discriminate against women and slaughter people. The fact that you believe you understand why they do it, is all that matters to you, because you are a moral coward who doesn't intend to stand up against their practices, it's not your fight.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

how do you explain saddam? he was as secular as they come and was not a jihadist? women had careers, girls were educated in schools? yet, he was still brutal...?

people here in america, tie gays to the back of cars, drag them, and kill them or beat and kick them to death, we lynched blacks just because of their skin color, men held women subservant to men for centuries, right here in the usa, we had slaves and treated them brutally in some cases, we slaughtered indians because we thought they were savages or wanted their lands, we had citizens that did the oklahoma city bombings killing hundreds etc etc etc.....but the MAJORITY of us here in America are good people and never did those things i listed....the same can be said for muslims.

Women had careers who weren't being raped and tortured by his maniacal sons. We aren't talking about Saddam Hussein, we are talking about Radical Islam! You continuing to point to other instances of injustice and wrong behavior, is not a justification to allow reprehensible behavior to persist! If that were the case, I seriously doubt we would have EVER gotten rid of slavery or defeated Nazism.

Let's again be CLEAR--- I HAVE NOT SPOKEN OUT AGAINST ALL MUSLIMS! Can you manage to get that one little point through your pinhead, Care? Nowhere in this thread, have I said one thing about ALL Muslims! As I pointed out earlier, if this radical mindset were inherent to ALL Muslims, it would be called "radical" it would be called "mainstream!"

 

[maineman]

How exactly does that comport with logic, Maine? Please tell me!! How can something that is completely opposed to personal freedom and liberty, and speaks against the material 'wealth' of western culture, be an 'alternative' to people who live in abject poverty? That makes no sense whatsoever! There is no fundamental reason for them to be attracted to radical Islam as a means to achieve improvement of their economic conditions or personal freedoms. NONE! ZILCH! NADDA! Are you trying to say these people are insane to the point they are acting in logical contradiction of reality? Because that is about the ONLY way your viewpoint makes ANY sense!

it makes perfect sense. Radical Islam does not promise to get poor, uneducated, downtrodden Muslims the wealth and status that they do not have. It seeks to show them that such goals are unworthy and unholy and offers them a different path to heaven. Why would a bunch of working class Americans from the Bay area follow a guy like Jim Jones into the jungles of South America and then commit mass suicide? Was that logical?

Here's what I dislike, so you are clear on it... I dislike religiously-based ideologies which oppose personal freedom, and instead, teach and practice discrimination and violence against women, gays, and people of different religious beliefs. I dislike them to the point I feel compelled to fight them and defeat them, and eliminate them from this planet. Apparently, you are okay with them, and you are able to understand why they brutally discriminate against women and slaughter people. The fact that you believe you understand why they do it, is all that matters to you, because you are a moral coward who doesn't intend to stand up against their practices, it's not your fight.

it is clearly not YOUR fight either.... but one which you would blithely try to make my children's fight. The world is full of people who live differently than we do and think differently than we do and have different priorities and different standards. The world is full of people who do not believe in the equality of the sexes or races, and people who believe that homosexuality is a mortal sin. You need look no further than your own state to find people who hold all those beliefs... Rather than fight them, as you like to say that you would do, you vote for them.

 

[Onceler]

"I dislike religiously-based ideologies which oppose personal freedom, and instead, teach and practice discrimination and violence against women, gays, and people of different religious beliefs. "

You realize that there are "Christian" groups that could be aptly characterized that way...right?

 

[Sammy Jankis]

The world is full of people who do not believe in the equality of the sexes or races, and people who believe that homosexuality is a mortal sin. You need look no further than your own state to find people who hold all those beliefs... Rather than fight them, as you like to say that you would do, you vote for them.

But the point is WHO do they want to kill? It's important to indentify the ones who want to kill you and then treat them differently. That's survival 101. Turning enemies into friens with politically correct stupidity, is just stupidity, for while you have out your hand of friendship, they will stil be trying to kill you. Painting a yellow smiley face over reality is not a solution.

 

[maineman]

But the point is WHO do they want to kill? It's important to indentify the ones who want to kill you and then treat them differently. That's survival 101. Turning enemies into friens with politically correct stupidity, is just stupidity, for while you have out your hand of friendship, they will stil be trying to kill you. Painting a yellow smiley face over reality is not a solution.

I agree that radical islam seeks us harm. I also know from personal experience in the area in question that the vast majority of muslims do not. We should be interested in actions that prevent the latter from moving towards the former... and unleashing shock and awe on arab urban populations who had ZIP to do with attacking us is NOT such an action.

 

[Damocles]

wow...you are long winded. I really have no desire to communicate with you in novelettes. Radical Islam is fueled by economic hardship and dictatorial government. That is a fact. The vast majority of the muslims in this world do NOT ascribe to that philosophy. That is also a fact.

I would say it is turbo-charged because of those things but that it is fueled by a belief system that teaches it is not only okay, but even "blessed" to harm others in the name of God.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

it makes perfect sense. Radical Islam does not promise to get poor, uneducated, downtrodden Muslims the wealth and status that they do not have. It seeks to show them that such goals are unworthy and unholy and offers them a different path to heaven. Why would a bunch of working class Americans from the Bay area follow a guy like Jim Jones into the jungles of South America and then commit mass suicide? Was that logical?

Last I checked, Jim Jones and his followers weren't flying planes into buildings and teaching hate and discrimination against women, gays, and those who believed differently. Your idiotic justification just took another illogical leap into the absurd, as if it wasn't already absurd enough. So, now we have these poor downtrodden people so angry with not having equity, they join a group which preaches against equity but promises heaven! Go ahead and set your sinking boat on fire, people will think you are smart!

I'm sorry, you haven't made your case, but you have provided me with some really good laughs!

it is clearly not YOUR fight either.... but one which you would blithely try to make my children's fight. The world is full of people who live differently than we do and think differently than we do and have different priorities and different standards. The world is full of people who do not believe in the equality of the sexes or races, and people who believe that homosexuality is a mortal sin. You need look no further than your own state to find people who hold all those beliefs... Rather than fight them, as you like to say that you would do, you vote for them.

No, it clearly IS my fight, and it should clearly be the fight of any decent human being, that's the part I don't understand, why it's not for the left. Whether it is to be a fight of your children is dependent upon whether moral cowardice is hereditary, I suppose. Indeed, the world is full of people who discriminate against gays and women, but they are not forming political movements, taking over governments, and spreading their message of hate to the masses through terror and a system of brutal oppression and intolerance. To my knowledge, I have never voted for anyone who held those views.

 

[maineman]

Last I checked, Jim Jones and his followers weren't flying planes into buildings and teaching hate and discrimination against women, gays, and those who believed differently. Your idiotic justification just took another illogical leap into the absurd, as if it wasn't already absurd enough. So, now we have these poor downtrodden people so angry with not having equity, they join a group which preaches against equity but promises heaven! Go ahead and set your sinking boat on fire, people will think you are smart! I'm sorry, you haven't made your case, but you have provided me with some really good laughs!

clearly, your lack of understanding of islam and radical islam knows no bounds. Clearly, your lack of understanding of the dynamics of poverty and inequity knows no bounds. It seems to me that you are the only one really arguing against me here... and if I can make a moron like you laugh, it may not do my ego any good, but it warms my heart nonetheless.

No, it clearly IS my fight, and it should clearly be the fight of any decent human being, that's the part I don't understand, why it's not for the left. Whether it is to be a fight of your children is dependent upon whether moral cowardice is hereditary, I suppose. Indeed, the world is full of people who discriminate against gays and women, but they are not forming political movements, taking over governments, and spreading their message of hate to the masses through terror and a system of brutal oppression and intolerance. To my knowledge, I have never voted for anyone who held those views.

Like I said, you don't need to look far past your own neighborhood in Alabama to find folks who mistreat women and minorities and gays. And if it really IS YOUR fight, why don't you get your lazy ass off of the barcalounger in your doublewide and go and fucking enlist in the army and spill YOUR blood so my kids won't have to spill theirs for YOUR wars. OK? You are awfully damned cavalier with American blood when you yourself have never put yourself in harm's way, IMHO.

 

[maineman]

I would say it is turbo-charged because of those things but that it is fueled by a belief system that teaches it is not only okay, but even "blessed" to harm others in the name of God.

Like I have said, I lived in the middle east for two years... I worked with muslims daily as part of my job. I never met anyone there who thought it was "blessed" to harm innocents in the name of God.