Heart attack or asphyxiation?

Nordberg said:
There is no way anyone can claim it was a heart attack. That is not known. But if it was, it was the abuse that caused it. That is still murder. I read that Chauvin's wife wants out of the marriage. He is not exactly the kind of man that people stick by.
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I would not be surprised there is abuse at home.
 
Stone said:
MMMMMMMM,....I hear you,..BUT... I cant tell you how many times I have seen people fake having heart attacks or other medical conditions when getting arrested because they think it will help them avoid jail just by watching episodes of COPS or LIVE PD. Now imagine being an actual cop and think about how many times they have seen that ploy. They probably become so conditioned that they think everyone is faking. Gotta admit,... I can easily understand that. Having said all that.......still doesnt make it right. Are they guilty of murder? Nope,... not IMO, but....they are surely guilty of terrible negligence because without that negligence that man would stand a very good chance of being alive today...
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If that cop was "guilty of terrible negligence because without that negligence that man would stand a very good chance of being alive today" then the fucker is guilty of 3rd degree manslaughter."
 
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Stone said:
So in other words the media did it again.....They reported half the facts in a rush to judgement, got people all worked up, helped to cause a riot, which in turn gave them even more stories to report on. And people wonder why we call it FAKE NEWS....:dunno:
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What a load of shit, there was nothing fake about that video. you just finished saying that without the cops negligence Floyd would be alive today and that's murder. You just can't bring yourself to say it because the guy was black and the cop was white.
 
Stretch said:
Video #1
I finally found a video of events preceding the video of George Floyd on the street being held down by the 3 cops.
Three people come out of his car and are led to the sidewalk for questioning. Floyd looks a little unsteady.
Two cops walk him across the street to another cop car where his legs give way and he collapses. (see Video #2 next)

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It's up to a jury, but I think Officer Chauvin showed a complete disregard for the health of his victim: Officer Chauvin knelt on Floyd's neck for "8 minutes and 46 seconds, with 2 minutes and 53 seconds of that occurring after Floyd was unresponsive." A jury will now figure it out, but IMO, that's unacceptable behavior on the part of the police since it's excessive force.
43dg3k.jpg
 
Stretch said:
Here it shows everything I've been describing.
Floyd's breathing is heavy and labored, he calls out loudly though with a strong voice in pain......then suddenly stops....no sounds of gasping for air...his heart just stops.

Viewer warning. Graphic material!

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Why on earth didn't the cop get the fuck off of him? What possible reason could he have other than he just didn't give a shit about him. That is not what a police officer should do. like the police chief said, " I want every one of my officers to watch this video and any of them that feel these cops did what was acceptable they need to find another career".
 
Port Tack said:
No it won't. It is entirely likely that if he was experiencing a heart attack it was caused by the police in this case. I would like to know where in police training you subdue a suspect by putting your knee on someones neck like this asshole did. Never mind the fact his hands were already cuffed behind his back.
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The police caused the heart attack? Not faulty genes? Shitty diet or history of heart disease?

That is a new one for the New England Journal of Medicine
 
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Port Tack said:
What a load of shit, there was nothing fake about that video. you just finished saying that without the cops negligence Floyd would be alive today and that's murder. You just can't bring yourself to say it because the guy was black and the cop was white.
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Well with the additional video there is a tremendous amount of context that was missing when ALL you saw was the cop with the knee on his neck.

Here is a good rule of thumb in medicine. If someone can talk, they can breathe. Just saying. Typically people who can't breathe, also can't talk. So while I am not condoning the actions of the police officer what we know is that up until George collapses there was ZERO wrong with that the officers did

We also know from physiology, that if the officer were kneeling on his neck with force sufficient enough to stop him from breathing he would not be able to talk. It is physically impossible.

Based on the new video and the autopsy, George likely was suffering from a heart attack, and went into a cardiac arrhythmia and died.

Could the officers have handled things differently? Definitely. Could they be accused of negligence? Most probably. Was it murder? Not from what I see.

The real questions are

1) Was George chinese virus positive?
2) Why wasn't George socially distancing?
3) Why wasn't George wearing a mask?
 
Port Tack said:
If Floyd was having a heart attack while this cop had him on the ground with his knee on his neck then maybe the cop should only get 20 yrs instead of life. To insinuate the guy was going to die anyway is fucking stupid, the cop killed him. You don't scream I can't breath and Mama if you are having a heart attack. The knee likely blocked the carotid artery and cut off blood to the brain so it is understandable asphyxia may have nothing to do with it.
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You people need an anatomy and physiology lesson. If blood flow were cut off for that long he would have passed out. Four minutes without sufficient oxygen to the brain and you die. If the flow is cut off completely, you lose consciousness in 10 seconds

The fact that they were leaning on him for 8 minutes and he was STILL talking tells me that they were not using a tremendous amount of force

Now, that does not mean that they should have kept him on the ground for 8 minutes. It doesn't mean they were negligent. But people saying they "caused" his heart attack are completely full of shit and don't know what they are talking about.

It isn't the heart attack that kills you. It is the resulting arrhythmia due to a lack of blood flow from the clogged artery.
 
Teflon Don said:
You people need an anatomy and physiology lesson. If blood flow were cut off for that long he would have passed out. Four minutes without sufficient oxygen to the brain and you die. If the flow is cut off completely, you lose consciousness in 10 seconds

The fact that they were leaning on him for 8 minutes and he was STILL talking tells me that they were not using a tremendous amount of force...
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That's false statement since Floyd was unconscious for 2 minutes while Chauvin knelt on his neck. A jury will figure it out. Care to place a wager on the outcome of the trial?
 
Teflon Don said:
Well with the additional video there is a tremendous amount of context that was missing when ALL you saw was the cop with the knee on his neck.

Here is a good rule of thumb in medicine. If someone can talk, they can breathe. Just saying. Typically people who can't breathe, also can't talk. So while I am not condoning the actions of the police officer what we know is that up until George collapses there was ZERO wrong with that the officers did

We also know from physiology, that if the officer were kneeling on his neck with force sufficient enough to stop him from breathing he would not be able to talk. It is physically impossible.

Based on the new video and the autopsy, George likely was suffering from a heart attack, and went into a cardiac arrhythmia and died.

Could the officers have handled things differently? Definitely. Could they be accused of negligence? Most probably. Was it murder? Not from what I see.

The real questions are

1) Was George chinese virus positive?
2) Why wasn't George socially distancing?
3) Why wasn't George wearing a mask?
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what an ignorant jackass.
 
Port Tack said:
what an ignorant jackass.
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not an argument

Feel free to point anything that was wrong


This is a tragedy. I am not defending the cops. I am just saying this is not a case of cops going N word hunting. Negligence. Wrongful death? It looks that way. Murder? No
 
Port Tack said:
What a load of shit, there was nothing fake about that video. you just finished saying that without the cops negligence Floyd would be alive today and that's murder. You just can't bring yourself to say it because the guy was black and the cop was white.
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You mean make the assumption lol?

You implying that Floyd would be alive today if he wasn’t black?

Can you prove this?
 
Stretch said:
I knew people would get the wrong idea. Please! The entire 4 cops handling this are reprehensible.
I'm merely pointing out things coming to light in videos and the report. And, there are "no physical findings
that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation".

I see 4 cops in a squatting position along the entire length of Floyd's body. Since there are no signs of physical
trauma to the neck area plus the signs he did present, I'm just saying it looks like a cardiac event.
Maybe newer evidence is yet to come. Maybe another doctor will be brought in to get another opinion. I don't know.
I'm posting a couple of videos and the Probable Cause Statement.
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I got the right idea. you're a dirty cop apologist.
 
The autopsy will determine the cause of death. In 2006 we had a similar incident involving a 14 year old black child named Martin Anderson. It appeared that the guards killed him during an altercation.

FDLE officials announced that Anderson's autopsy ruled out "trauma or injury" as the cause of his death.
The official cause of death was not reported for another five weeks. In mid-February, Bay County Medical Examiner Charles F. Siebert announced that his first autopsy of Anderson determined that the teen died of complications from sickle cell trait, a normally benign and relatively common condition among African Americans.
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On March 12, Anderson's body was exhumed and a second autopsy was conducted by the coroner of Hillsborough County, Dr. Vernard Adams.[11] This time, the autopsy was attended by several other forensic pathologists as consultants to Dr. Adams. Dr. Michael Baden, New York State Police coroner, attended at the request of Anderson's parents and the NAACP.

Dr. Adams found:
1) Martin Anderson had sickle cell trait.
2) The repeated blows to Martin Anderson's limbs and the gripping of his limbs left several bruises
but did not contribute to his death. In other words, he was not beaten to death.
3) Martin Anderson's death was caused by suffocation due to actions of the guards at the boot camp.
The suffocation was caused by manual occlusion of the mouth, in concert with forced inhalation of
ammonia fumes that caused spasm of the vocal cords resulting in internal blockage of the upper airway.
Vernard I. Adams, M.D.
Chief Medical Examiner
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So we will have to wait. But it does appear the cops over reacted and caused his death.
 
AssHatZombie said:
you're trippin'

it just seemed like his knee was on his neck? ftfy.
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My wife says the knee killed him, I ask how do u know how much pressure he is using. She than said well u cant do that without putting a lot on his neck


So i went and got a big ripe tomato out of the fridge

I am 6'2 230.... i put the tomato on floor and put my knee on it

Guess what it didn't smash, and while I was doing it I asked her if she could tell how much pressure i was using ...she said no...I SAID BINGO
 
volsrock said:
My wife says the knee killed him, I ask how do u know how much pressure he is using. She than said well u cant do that without putting a lot on his neck


So i went and got a big ripe tomato out of the fridge

I am 6'2 230.... i put the tomato on floor and put my knee on it

Guess what it didn't smash, and while I was doing it I asked her if she could tell how much pressure i was using ...she said no...I SAID BINGO
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third degree murder charge.

fuck your tomato experiment, csi.
 
Jack said:
Was the "Get up!" a Police command? Was it made to make it look like the Suspect was 'resisting arrest' by trying to get up?
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I don't think so because Chauvin knew there was someone making a video of the whole scene and that
his voice was being recorded. So there was Chauvin and the other 3 cops holding him down while
sarcastically telling him to "get up".....but of course he couldn't.
 
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