Who says guns don't stop criminals

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blackascoal said:
The rising crime rates in England are as attributable to low conviction rates as anything else .. and the murder rate in America is still 6 times higher than in England.

As I said, I don't really give a damn about the 2nd Amendment or gunlove.

You can make babies with your gun if you like .. I don't care.
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Got a link?
 
blackascoal said:
If someone wants to do you harm there are only about ONE ZILLION ways they can get you that neutralizes your security blanket.
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So self protection is impossible? I think not. I cling to the vigilante ethos of self protection. What do you suggest, a really mean hamster?
 
AssHatZombie said:
Got a link?
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. the U.S. murder rate as measured in police statistics was 8.7 times England's in 1981 but 5.7 times in 1996 (figure 5)

. a person committing a serious crime in the United States (rape, robbery, assault, burglary, and motor vehicle theft, but not murder) is generally more likely than one in England to be caught and convicted (below, and figures 25-30 of the report)

. courts in the United States are generally more likely to sentence a convicted offender to incarceration (for robbery, assault, burglary, and motor vehicle theft, but not murder or rape) than courts in England (figures 31-36)

http://www.gunsandcrime.org/highs.html
 
Watermark said:
Well if you have children around you're supposed to keep it locked up. I mean, seriously, it just becomes a bit ridiculous to think you could stop one coming in while your asleep. But burglars these days usually scout the home to find out whenever no ones home and come in then, so a gun would be useless.

America actually has low burglary rates compared to gun control nations. Without the mass of brutal killings we'd be A-OK. Guess you've gotta make tradeoffs somewhere. :cof1:
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Right if kids are around keep your pit bull lokced up.
 
AssHatZombie said:
So self protection is impossible? I think not. I cling to the vigilante ethos of self protection. What do you suggest, a really mean hamster?
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Self-protection is very possible .. but you don't need a gun to do it.

Your best weapon is your brain .. at least it is for most people.
 
KY passed a law fairly recently where if someone breaks into your home you are allowed to shoot them. The previous law stated that your life had to be in danger before you could shoot them.

I agree with this law, if someone breaks into my home in the middle of the night, their life is forfeit as far as I am concerned. My home is my refuge against the madness of the world.

This law only covers your home, not a business or outbuilding or yard. It must be a residence.
 
Jeez people, I got off here for a few minutes to checkout of my hotel and drive to work, and this thread turns into a flame war.

Ok, here is the scoop.

Yes, England does have a far fewer murders and violent crimes than the USA. But the rates of violent crimes per capita has been steadily rising, whereas ours has been steadily dropping. I have seen this attributed to low conviction rates AND to the gun ban in England. But the rate of violent crime started the steady rise after the gun ban.


A dog is an excellent means of raising the alarm AND of protecting your family. But they are only protection if they are a large dog that will attack, otherwise its only an annoyance. Raising the alarm is great if you live somewhere that having an alarm raised cures the problem. In an apartment complex that would suffice. Out where I live, we could all scream bloody murder and no one would be aware of it.

Some burglars will leave if they hear a dog. Some will leave if they hear a big dog. Some will case the house first and only avoid it if the dog seems to be a threat. For example, if I were a burglar and saw that you had a golden retriever I wouldn't worry as much.

Sometimes having a dog isn't feasible. Many people are allergic to dogs or simply do not like dogs. I would rather people who dislike dogs not own one. Dogs should be part of the family.

And there is the very real possibility that the burglar would shoot the dog. In any case, having the means to protect my family, myself and my home are important to me. Especially since I travel and my wife is home alone much of the time.


But there is no need for name calling and hostility. State your case and be done with it. If someone wants a gun, then they should be able to obtain one (as long as they want it for legal reasons and can legally own one). If someone does not want a gun, I don't want them to have one. They will not practice with it or learn how to use it properly (and this includes proper storage).
 
AssHatZombie said:
Solitary, nobody needs you to be referee, so eat shit. Unity is an overrated bunch of crap.
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Oh, and your hostility is accomplishing what?? Exactly what is it that you are doing that is so great?

I'll tell you what you are doing. You are adding fuel to the fire for the people who believe that gun owners are violent lunatics. You are making more people willing to disarm us. People who would not have had much of an opinion before will now see the logic behind the anti-gun people's rhetoric.


Also, since I am an adult I prefer a reasonable discussion and exchange of ideas to a petty temper tantrum. Debate is a great means for exchanging ideas. Flaming is not.
 
Solitary said:
Jeez people, I got off here for a few minutes to checkout of my hotel and drive to work, and this thread turns into a flame war.

Ok, here is the scoop.

Yes, England does have a far fewer murders and violent crimes than the USA. But the rates of violent crimes per capita has been steadily rising, whereas ours has been steadily dropping. I have seen this attributed to low conviction rates AND to the gun ban in England. But the rate of violent crime started the steady rise after the gun ban.


A dog is an excellent means of raising the alarm AND of protecting your family. But they are only protection if they are a large dog that will attack, otherwise its only an annoyance. Raising the alarm is great if you live somewhere that having an alarm raised cures the problem. In an apartment complex that would suffice. Out where I live, we could all scream bloody murder and no one would be aware of it.

Some burglars will leave if they hear a dog. Some will leave if they hear a big dog. Some will case the house first and only avoid it if the dog seems to be a threat. For example, if I were a burglar and saw that you had a golden retriever I wouldn't worry as much.

Sometimes having a dog isn't feasible. Many people are allergic to dogs or simply do not like dogs. I would rather people who dislike dogs not own one. Dogs should be part of the family.

And there is the very real possibility that the burglar would shoot the dog. In any case, having the means to protect my family, myself and my home are important to me. Especially since I travel and my wife is home alone much of the time.


But there is no need for name calling and hostility. State your case and be done with it. If someone wants a gun, then they should be able to obtain one (as long as they want it for legal reasons and can legally own one). If someone does not want a gun, I don't want them to have one. They will not practice with it or learn how to use it properly (and this includes proper storage).
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Everyone makes their own decisons about their own security.

Dogs don't have to be large and attack-trained to be effective as a crime deterrent.

A tiny dog that barks works.

My dogs have always been protection trained, but only once have I ever sent a dog on an attack .. and that happened outside and it wasn't my house that someone had broken into .. it was a neighbors and I happened upon the guy when he was climbing out a window. I told him to stop .. he didn't .. blood running down his leg while he screamed in pain like a little girl.

He was happy to see the police coming to get him.

One other tidbit .. you know when I told you I died last year .. guess who saved my life ... Yup .. my dog.

Let's see a gun go wake your wife and daughter up when you have a stroke and a seizure. :)
 
Solitary said:
Oh, and your hostility is accomplishing what?? Exactly what is it that you are doing that is so great?
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It's fun for me, and fun for others to read. Im saving the world from internationalist fascism too.
I'll tell you what you are doing. You are adding fuel to the fire for the people who believe that gun owners are violent lunatics. You are making more people willing to disarm us. People who would not have had much of an opinion before will now see the logic behind the anti-gun people's rhetoric.


Also, since I am an adult I prefer a reasonable discussion and exchange of ideas to a petty temper tantrum. Debate is a great means for exchanging ideas. Flaming is not.
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No. You're letting them float the assinine notion that a dog is a suitable replacement. You have failed. If you quit failing I won't have to step in. Do what I say.
 
Solitary said:
Oh, and your hostility is accomplishing what?? Exactly what is it that you are doing that is so great?

I'll tell you what you are doing. You are adding fuel to the fire for the people who believe that gun owners are violent lunatics. You are making more people willing to disarm us. People who would not have had much of an opinion before will now see the logic behind the anti-gun people's rhetoric.


Also, since I am an adult I prefer a reasonable discussion and exchange of ideas to a petty temper tantrum. Debate is a great means for exchanging ideas. Flaming is not.
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Let me introduce you to AssHat, resident moron/clown here.

We pay him to be ignorant and provide comic relief.
 
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