'Russiagate’ Zealots Have Become a Major Threat to US National Security

Cypress said:
One can believe that Russian interference in an American presidential election is a threat to democracy, should be investigated, and actions to prevent it happening again be taken....

while at the same time recognizing Russia and the United States have areas of mutual interest that require cooperation.

Why would you assume both things cannot happen at the same time? At the height of the Cold War, there was still cooperation between western nations and Russia where there were mutual interests.

Why would you act like you are the first person in history to suggest some level of cooperation with Russian is necessary, even advantageous?

I agree with you that there are some old Cold War hawks, like McCain, who's opinions are suspect. I have long had the blustering, cold war warriors like Reagan and McCain on blast. The cold war warriors had an agenda which did not fool me.

I have a feeling your "sudden" interest in being pro-Russian is almost entirely predicated on your worship of Donald Trump. Unlike you, I have had a life long interest in Russia, I have always been pro-Russian (if anti-Kremlin), and I have personal knowledge of, and interest in, Russian-American cooperation in areas of mutual interest.

You seem to have a very primitive, black and white, you-must-love-Putin-or-else-you-hate-Russia mentality about you. You relentlessly post about this topic (or just paste the words of other people), but you strike me as having a limited, even novice level of sophistication and knowledge about Russia.
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And this coming from someone who did an ideological sex change on Russia lol.

Enlighten us. What is there to know about Russia.
 
archives said:
"russian hacking did not turn the election-not even a bit," so, the likes of Fox and nearly every right wing source out there framing and echoing any bit of information coming via WikiLeaks played no role in the election? All the commentary, factual or fabricated, taken off of the leaks had no influencing role in the election?

You people are spitting into the wind, you can't find a dozen serious sources who have seen the intelligence reports that deny that Russia played any role in the election, not even GOP politicians who admit the obvious, all you are doing is shooting the messengers. Evidence of Russia interfering in nearly every European election at the time exists, and now your telling us the didn't take the time to also interfere in the US election?

You buy into insinuation, innuendos, and conspiracy meant as distractions and run with them as if they were fact, yet deny the obvious
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Then you should be able to supply an example of where this "hacking" affected the election.
Please give chapter and verse.
Thank you
 
Cypress said:
One can believe that Russian interference in an American presidential election is a threat to democracy, should be investigated, and actions to prevent it happening again be taken....

while at the same time recognizing Russia and the United States have areas of mutual interest that require cooperation.

Why would you assume both things cannot happen at the same time? At the height of the Cold War, there was still cooperation between western nations and Russia where there were mutual interests.

Why would you act like you are the first person in history to suggest some level of cooperation with Russian is necessary, even advantageous?

I agree with you that there are some old Cold War hawks, like McCain, who's opinions are suspect. I have long had the blustering, cold war warriors like Reagan and McCain on blast. The cold war warriors had an agenda which did not fool me.

I have a feeling your "sudden" interest in being pro-Russian is almost entirely predicated on your worship of Donald Trump. Unlike you, I have had a life long interest in Russia, I have always been pro-Russian (if anti-Kremlin), and I have personal knowledge of, and interest in, Russian-American cooperation in areas of mutual interest.

You seem to have a very primitive, black and white, you-must-love-Putin-or-else-you-hate-Russia mentality about you. You relentlessly post about this topic (or just paste the words of other people), but you strike me as having a limited, even novice level of sophistication and knowledge about Russia.
Click to expand...
your usual sanctimonious crap.
Making assumptions about me and others without any basis in facts..

However you hit on a solid point:
One I have been making since the begging of this latest round of Russiaphobia that periodically infects the USA

...while at the same time recognizing Russia and the United States have areas of mutual interest that require cooperation.
Why would you assume both things cannot happen at the same time? At the height of the Cold War, there was still cooperation between western nations and Russia where there were mutual interests.
Click to expand...
correct.
at the height of the cold war we always looked for arms control agreements, and we always had lower level talks going that broke out into the occasional summit meetings between the USA and USSR leaders.

we no longer have lower lever talks. Obama stopped them after Crimea.
In fact we now have sanctions instead of diplomacy.

Those summit meetings and low level were productive, kept fears of a nuclear war at bay, kept military personnel at minimal levels and generally kept tensions as low as possible.

can you imagine the hue & cry that would arise up if Trump went to Moscow,or Putin came here?
++

Compare that rational realpolitik to now:

1.routine "fly by's" of Russian air within 200 feet of a US ship, or dangerously close air conflicts.
2.NATO expansion of states that are not even natural US/western Europe alliances.
3.meddling of the US in the Uk's Euromaiden by U.S.A.I.D. money -fomented on the ground by such players as McCain
and eastern Europe State desk under Obama by Victoria Nuland.
4.Nasty war in Donbas and routine violations of the Minsk agreements by both sides.

In short there is no cooperation- yet that's what I have been advocating all along.
If we could find areas of cooperation, and advancing interests during the cold war 1 -why can't we try to do that now??
 
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Cypress said:
One can believe that Russian interference in an American presidential election is a threat to democracy, should be investigated, and actions to prevent it happening again be taken....

while at the same time recognizing Russia and the United States have areas of mutual interest that require cooperation.

Why would you assume both things cannot happen at the same time? At the height of the Cold War, there was still cooperation between western nations and Russia where there were mutual interests.
Click to expand...
-
noise said:
As US-Russian relations have deteriorated, the risk of a nuclear catastrophe—including the danger posed by a nuclear-armed North Korea—has risen to its highest level since the end of the Cold War.
The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists now rates the danger higher than when the Soviet Union tested its first nuclear device, in 1949.

The new Cold War is punctuated by perilous military face-offs in three arenas:
a.) in Syria,
b.) in the skies over the Baltic Sea;
c.) on Russia’s western border, with 300,000 NATO troops on high alert and both
Russia and NATO ramping up deployments and exercises;
d.) and in Ukraine.

Between them, the United States and Russia possess nearly 14,000 nuclear weapons—more than 90 percent of the world’s nuclear arsenal—and keep almost 2,000 of them on hair-trigger alert.
So the extreme danger of nuclear war can only be reduced through cooperation between our two countries.
https://www.thenation.com/article/realism-on-russia/
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USFREEDOM911 said:
Then you should be able to supply an example of where this "hacking" affected the election.
Please give chapter and verse.
Thank you
Click to expand...

Good question lol.

The fact is it’s impossible to quantify the effect Russia had on the election. Ironically, the most significant Russian-factor in our politics is the Fake Dossier, which remains unverified in its key points. Even Adam Schiff concedes Steele was only accurate ‘in the broad outline’ in the sense Russia tried to influence the election.

Well, derp. The Russians ALWAYS try to mess with our elections and have been since the earliest part of the Cold War.

And these goof balls want to reignite the Cold War over it, because they are pissy Trump got into the WH. And that, is the ‘broad outline’ of the Russian hysteria. Future historians should have all manner of fun with it.

Maybe they’ll conclude that Joe McCarthy was finally vindicated lol.
 
Has Manafort "flipped" yet?

I was told that was the whole point of indicting him.

Still nothing after a year of investigating Trump?
 
Teflon Don said:
Has Manafort "flipped" yet?

I was told that was the whole point of indicting him.

Still nothing after a year of investigating Trump?
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I cautioned the impeachment enthusiasts that there may be nothing for Manafort to flip about lol.

An indication that Mueller may be finding that out came out today. He’s resorted to snooping around Sessions and the DOJ to see if Trump may have attempted to interfere in the investigation.

An investigation into something that very likely didn’t happen. DC isn’t having its finest moment. And people wonder why so many voters loathe the Swamp.
 
Darth Omar said:
I cautioned the impeachment enthusiasts that there may be nothing for Manafort to flip about lol.

An indication that Mueller may be finding that out came out today. He’s resorted to snooping around Sessions and the DOJ to see if Trump may have attempted to interfere in the investigation.

An investigation into something that very likely didn’t happen. DC isn’t having its finest moment. And people wonder why so many voters loathe the Swamp.
Click to expand...

Mueller has to get something. Getting Manafort on alleged crimes that occurred 10 years before Trump announced his candidacy is as weak as it gets.

Only the true believes on the left still cling to hope that they will get Trump on some "collusion".

Mueller is as dirty as they come. Under no circumstances should he be heading up this investigation.
 
Teflon Don said:
Mueller has to get something. Getting Manafort on alleged crimes that occurred 10 years before Trump announced his candidacy is as weak as it gets.

Only the true believes on the left still cling to hope that they will get Trump on some "collusion".

Mueller is as dirty as they come. Under no circumstances should he be heading up this investigation.
Click to expand...

Sessions needs to pull the trigger on appointing an SP.

Unlike the collusion fantasy, there are actual facts to work with regarding the Uranium deal, the Dossier, was it used to influence the FISA court and etc.

Since Mueller, Comey and Rosenstein could be implicated it could stymie the Mueller investigation. And it would keep Trumps hands clean.

But Sessions is weak so I doubt it will happen.
 
Darth Omar said:
Good question lol.

The fact is it’s impossible to quantify the effect Russia had on the election. Ironically, the most significant Russian-factor in our politics is the Fake Dossier, which remains unverified in its key points. Even Adam Schiff concedes Steele was only accurate ‘in the broad outline’ in the sense Russia tried to influence the election.

Well, derp. The Russians ALWAYS try to mess with our elections and have been since the earliest part of the Cold War.

And these goof balls want to reignite the Cold War over it, because they are pissy Trump got into the WH. And that, is the ‘broad outline’ of the Russian hysteria. Future historians should have all manner of fun with it.

Maybe they’ll conclude that Joe McCarthy was finally vindicated lol.
Click to expand...
exactly. hence the thread title " Russiagate’ Zealots Have Become a Major Threat to US National Security"
 
“EVERYONE IS FREAKING OUT”: TRUMP’S WEST WING RACES TO CONTAIN MUELLER FALLOUT
The Trump-Russia “witch hunt” becomes suddenly, terrifyingly real.

When Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the truculent White House Press secretary, was asked how Donald Trump had taken the news that three former campaign advisers had been charged in the special counsel’s Russia investigation, her reply was brusque. “He responded the same way the rest of us in the White House have—that is, without a lot of reaction, because it doesn’t have anything to do with us.”

Those who have spoken to sources inside the West Wing, however, paint a different picture: of a president fuming over the indictments and consumed by cable news coverage, oscillating furiously between “media critic, legal analyst, and crisis communications strategist,” as The Washington Post reports.

Although the White House had been anticipating charges in Robert Mueller’s “witch hunt” for months, news that one former adviser, George Papadopoulos, had pleaded guilty, and begun working with the F.B.I., exploded like a bomb. Rising before dawn and gluing himself to his television, Trump at first felt vindicated by the charges against Paul Manafort and Richard Gates, which were seemingly unconnected to Russia. “NO COLLUSION!” he tweeted triumphantly, after he spoke with his lawyers. Others were reportedly relieved that the first batch of indictments did not include Trump’s former national security advisor, Michael Flynn. (Manafort and Gates have pleaded not guilty.)

But the president’s mood darkened after hearing that Papadopoulos had, apparently, turned state’s witness. “The walls are closing in,” one senior Republican in close contact with top staffers told the Post, echoing other sources who described Trump as angry and agitated. “Everyone is freaking out.” The New York Times reported that White House aides were “stunned and alarmed.”

Other West Wing sources were more sanguine. There wasn’t “as much of a freakout as you might think,” one official told Politico. While Trump was fixated on the Russia investigation all day, he is said to have been reassured by his lawyers that Mueller won’t threaten him personally, even if he indicts former Trump associates, and will ultimately clear the president’s name. His legal team has urged the investigation to proceed swiftly so that it can be concluded by the end of the year.

Papadopoulos’s guilty plea, and subsequent cooperation with the F.B.I., could upend that timetable—as could the arrests of Manafort and Gates. The overriding assumption is that Mueller believes that the pair have information relating to Trump, which he intends to leverage. As legal experts have told Vanity Fair, the special prosecutor appears to be following a classic anti-mafia playbook: begin by targeting lower-level staffers, then work your way up, using compromising information or legal threats to compel testimony against their higher-ups. Gates, apparently, is a point of particular concern. Possibly facing years in jail, he has a young family, and continued to be involved with the Trump administration after the president was sworn in.

As the fractious situation unfolded, and immediately choked the media cycle, there was widespread frustration among the G.O.P. Yet again, Russia had dominated the start of carefully planned week of policy news, in which Republicans are preparing to unveil their tax overhaul bill and Trump is set to depart on a pivotal, 12-day trip across Asia. It’s not the first time that Trump has flown overseas under a cloud of scandal. The day before he embarked upon his first presidential foreign trip in May, the Justice Department appointed Mueller as special counsel.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/10/trump-west-wing-races-to-contain-mueller-fallout

Maybe somewhere in that alternate universe that Trumpy's exist in, he's a great president.

In the really real world that everyone else exists in, he's a fucking disaster on every level.

:cof1:
 
^ dated.

Other West Wing sources were more sanguine. There wasn’t “as much of a freakout as you might think,” one official told Politico. While Trump was fixated on the Russia investigation all day, he is said to have been reassured by his lawyers that Mueller won’t threaten him personally, even if he indicts former Trump associates, and will ultimately clear the president’s name. His legal team has urged the investigation to proceed swiftly so that it can be concluded by the end of the year.
Click to expand...

As the fractious situation unfolded, and immediately choked the media cycle, there was widespread frustration among the G.O.P. Yet again, Russia had dominated the start of carefully planned week of policy news
Click to expand...
^ deep state shenanigans purposely used as an extra-Constitutional attack upon the presidency
 
blackascoal said:
“EVERYONE IS FREAKING OUT”: TRUMP’S WEST WING RACES TO CONTAIN MUELLER FALLOUT
The Trump-Russia “witch hunt” becomes suddenly, terrifyingly real.

When Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the truculent White House Press secretary, was asked how Donald Trump had taken the news that three former campaign advisers had been charged in the special counsel’s Russia investigation, her reply was brusque. “He responded the same way the rest of us in the White House have—that is, without a lot of reaction, because it doesn’t have anything to do with us.”

Those who have spoken to sources inside the West Wing, however, paint a different picture: of a president fuming over the indictments and consumed by cable news coverage, oscillating furiously between “media critic, legal analyst, and crisis communications strategist,” as The Washington Post reports.

Although the White House had been anticipating charges in Robert Mueller’s “witch hunt” for months, news that one former adviser, George Papadopoulos, had pleaded guilty, and begun working with the F.B.I., exploded like a bomb. Rising before dawn and gluing himself to his television, Trump at first felt vindicated by the charges against Paul Manafort and Richard Gates, which were seemingly unconnected to Russia. “NO COLLUSION!” he tweeted triumphantly, after he spoke with his lawyers. Others were reportedly relieved that the first batch of indictments did not include Trump’s former national security advisor, Michael Flynn. (Manafort and Gates have pleaded not guilty.)

But the president’s mood darkened after hearing that Papadopoulos had, apparently, turned state’s witness. “The walls are closing in,” one senior Republican in close contact with top staffers told the Post, echoing other sources who described Trump as angry and agitated. “Everyone is freaking out.” The New York Times reported that White House aides were “stunned and alarmed.”

Other West Wing sources were more sanguine. There wasn’t “as much of a freakout as you might think,” one official told Politico. While Trump was fixated on the Russia investigation all day, he is said to have been reassured by his lawyers that Mueller won’t threaten him personally, even if he indicts former Trump associates, and will ultimately clear the president’s name. His legal team has urged the investigation to proceed swiftly so that it can be concluded by the end of the year.

Papadopoulos’s guilty plea, and subsequent cooperation with the F.B.I., could upend that timetable—as could the arrests of Manafort and Gates. The overriding assumption is that Mueller believes that the pair have information relating to Trump, which he intends to leverage. As legal experts have told Vanity Fair, the special prosecutor appears to be following a classic anti-mafia playbook: begin by targeting lower-level staffers, then work your way up, using compromising information or legal threats to compel testimony against their higher-ups. Gates, apparently, is a point of particular concern. Possibly facing years in jail, he has a young family, and continued to be involved with the Trump administration after the president was sworn in.

As the fractious situation unfolded, and immediately choked the media cycle, there was widespread frustration among the G.O.P. Yet again, Russia had dominated the start of carefully planned week of policy news, in which Republicans are preparing to unveil their tax overhaul bill and Trump is set to depart on a pivotal, 12-day trip across Asia. It’s not the first time that Trump has flown overseas under a cloud of scandal. The day before he embarked upon his first presidential foreign trip in May, the Justice Department appointed Mueller as special counsel.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/10/trump-west-wing-races-to-contain-mueller-fallout

Maybe somewhere in that alternate universe that Trumpy's exist in, he's a great president.

In the really real world that everyone else exists in, he's a fucking disaster on every level.

:cof1:
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Bannon’s gone, so no more rallies, poor Trump.
 
blackascoal said:
OCTOBER 31, 2017

'deep state' :0) That's funny
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what's funny is you have no clue, nor desire to understand how the IC leadership has become politicized
in combination with Obama holdovers and a stupid/hyper-partisan Congress
to coordinate usurping the POTUS role to direct diplomacy/foreign policy.

These are un-elected bureaucrats.
They are acting in an extra-Constitutional manner. Except Congress which are all partisan hacks

Ya..it's fucking hilarious not
 
noise said:
what's funny is you have no clue, nor desire to understand how the IC leadership has become politicized
in combination with Obama holdovers and a stupid/hyper-partisan Congress
to coordinate usurping the POTUS role to direct diplomacy/foreign policy.

These are un-elected bureaucrats.
They are acting in an extra-Constitutional manner. Except Congress which are all partisan hacks

Ya..it's fucking hilarious not
Click to expand...

:0) I have no interest in right-wing fairy-tales, borne from the same ignorant people who brought us birtherism. NONE whatsoever.

You are free to create and imagine any damn excuse you can dream up brother. You've already demonstrated that you will sink to any depth necessary to defend the absolute hands-down worst president in American history, and the love of his life, Putin.

You can banter that ignorance around with the dummies here who share that stupid shit. Toss in every misused phrase you can think of. Deep state, realpolitik, whatever.

None of that matters a twit. These investigations will go on and there is nothing that whining can do to stop them .. and I have no issues with you doing it.

Please stop pretending to be some kind of analyst. You're just making yourself look silly .. er.
 
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