What we Know About the Wire Tapping

tsuke

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https://tsukesthoughts.wordpress.com/2017/03/07/what-we-know-about-the-wire-tapping/

What we Know About the Wire Tapping

We begin with FISA. The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act is a law which allows electronic surveillance of people who are deemed to be "foreign powers" and "agents of foreign powers". For our purposes there are some important parts about this bill. First off the authority to request for the wire tapping emanates from the President, thru his attorney general. The command responsibility lies with the President for any FISA requests that are sent out. Second all FISA requests must have the signature of either the President or his attorney general with no exceptions. Either the President or his AG is aware of each and every FISA request. Third each request must go before a judge for a probable cause hearing. It is important to note here that there is very little oversight with FISA courts. You don't know that a procedure has been initiated against you, nor do you have the opportunity to defend yourself from it. Combine this with the fact that probable cause is a very low standard and is highly subjective to begin with and you have a situation where it is very easy to get permission.

Requests

On the requests itself. We have multiple sources all claiming that there was an initial request made in June. This was rejected. The Obama administration attempted again in July of 2016 with a more narrowly drawn order. This was rejected again. In October, 3 weeks before the election the Obama administration tried again with a different judge and finally got permission.

This shows several things. First off the case against Trump and his associates were so weak that the Obama administration could not even meet the very low requirement of probable cause. Second that the administration really wanted permission for the surveillance as they found a second friendlier judge to grant it to them. It also has to be brought up that the secret meeting between Bill Clinton and Attorney General Lynch happened right before the first request was rejected. Third we have seen that the intelligence community has no problem leaking things. It is not a stretch of the imagination to believe that the information gathered could have ended up with the Clinton camp or the DNC.

Target

There are conflicting sources as to who was the actual target of the wiretapping. Some sources say it is Trump himself. Others say that it is Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, and Carter Page. Lastly other sources state that it is 2 banks from Russia.

The target being Trump is the most problematic as you would then have the standard bearer of the opposing party labelled as an agent of a foreign power while he was running. You would have his headquarters which was Trump Tower at the time bugged and any and all of his communications could be leaked to the opposing party. Which just happened to be the one to sign the order.

Stone and the rest being the targets would be equally problematic as you would still be able to listen in to confidential information at Trump headquarters. Remember by the time the Obama administration found a friendly judge to grant the surveillance it was 3 weeks before the election. Internal polls, schedules, crunch time strategies all could be gotten and leaked to the opposition.

The Russian banks would be the least problematic but still presents some issues. The administration tried to connect the servers at Trump Tower with the Russian banks allowing them to hack into them. These servers contained sensitive information on the Trump campaign. Remember that the internal polls provided by Conway were correct while other polls were not so being able to see into the Trump campaign had great value.

Summary

In summary the FISA requests do exist and the administration were so desperate to get it thru that they shopped for a friendly judge. Obama or Lynch signed the order as they are required to. Lastly whoever they spied it is a good chance that they got confidential information that they could have leaked to the DNC.
 
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https://tsukesthoughts.wordpress.com/2017/03/07/what-we-know-about-the-wire-tapping/

What we Know About the Wire Tapping

We begin with FISA. The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act is a law which allows electronic surveillance of people who are deemed to be "foreign powers" and "agents of foreign powers". For our purposes there are some important parts about this bill. First off the authority to request for the wire tapping emanates from the President, thru his attorney general. The command responsibility lies with the President for any FISA requests that are sent out. Second all FISA requests must have the signature of either the President or his attorney general with no exceptions. Either the President or his AG is aware of each and every FISA request. Third each request must go before a judge for a probable cause hearing. It is important to note here that there is very little oversight with FISA courts. You don't know that a procedure has been initiated against you, nor do you have the opportunity to defend yourself from it. Combine this with the fact that probable cause is a very low standard and is highly subjective to begin with and you have a situation where it is very easy to get permission.

Requests

On the requests itself. We have multiple sources all claiming that there was an initial request made in June. This was rejected. The Obama administration attempted again in July of 2016 with a more narrowly drawn order. This was rejected again. In October, 3 weeks before the election the Obama administration tried again with a different judge and finally got permission.

This shows several things. First off the case against Trump and his associates were so weak that the Obama administration could not even meet the very low requirement of probable cause. Second that the administration really wanted permission for the surveillance as they found a second friendlier judge to grant it to them. It also has to be brought up that the secret meeting between Bill Clinton and Attorney General Lynch happened right before the first request was rejected. Third we have seen that the intelligence community has no problem leaking things. It is not a stretch of the imagination to believe that the information gathered could have ended up with the Clinton camp or the DNC.

Target

There are conflicting sources as to who was the actual target of the wiretapping. Some sources say it is Trump himself. Others say that it is Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, and Carter Page. Lastly other sources state that it is 2 banks from Russia.

The target being Trump is the most problematic as you would then have the standard bearer of the opposing party labelled as an agent of a foreign power while he was running. You would have his headquarters which was Trump Tower at the time bugged and any and all of his communications could be leaked to the opposing party. Which just happened to be the one to sign the order.

Stone and the rest being the targets would be equally problematic as you would still be able to listen in to confidential information at Trump headquarters. Remember by the time the Obama administration found a friendly judge to grant the surveillance it was 3 weeks before the election. Internal polls, schedules, crunch time strategies all could be gotten and leaked to the opposition.

The Russian banks would be the least problematic but still presents some issues. The administration tried to connect the servers at Trump Tower with the Russian banks allowing them to hack into them. These servers contained sensitive information on the Trump campaign. Remember that the internal polls provided by Conway were correct while other polls were not so being able to see into the Trump campaign had great value.

Summary

In summary the FISA requests do exist and the administration were so desperate to get it thru that they shopped for a friendly judge. Obama or Lynch signed the order as they are required to. Lastly whoever they spied it is a good chance that they got confidential information that they could have leaked to the DNC.

Do you have a citation for your claims? Especially the ones about the warrant being issued upon the third request, or that there was a first, second or third request?
 
Do you have any support for your claim that anyone said Trump himself was the target?
 
So it appears even by your own admission Obama himself did none of the wiretapping? Right?


If a FISA judge issued a warrant, and there was probable cause I would have had no problem with Trump being bugged, just because he is a presidential candidate does not make him above the law.

We dont have to worry about that because it is becoming more and more clear it did not happen.
 
So it appears even by your own admission Obama himself did none of the wiretapping? Right?


If a FISA judge issued a warrant, and there was probable cause I would have had no problem with Trump being bugged, just because he is a presidential candidate does not make him above the law.

We dont have to worry about that because it is becoming more and more clear it did not happen.

Like i mentioned in order for the order to be processed either Obama or Lynch had to sign of on it.
 
Like i mentioned in order for the order to be processed either Obama or Lynch had to sign of on it.

So you are claiming a Federal Judge agreed with the FBI that there was Probable Cause to say Rump or others in his campaign were in violation of the law?
 
So it appears even by your own admission Obama himself did none of the wiretapping? Right?


If a FISA judge issued a warrant, and there was probable cause I would have had no problem with Trump being bugged, just because he is a presidential candidate does not make him above the law.

We dont have to worry about that because it is becoming more and more clear it did not happen.

In essence what happened is that the wire tap for their political opponent was initially declined then the obama admin shopped around until they found a judge that would grant it :)

Thats a major incumbent advantage :P
 
So you are claiming a Federal Judge agreed with the FBI that there was Probable Cause to say Rump or others in his campaign were in violation of the law?

Im claiming it was initially declined and they shopped around till they found a friendlier judge :)
 
Im claiming it was initially declined and they shopped around till they found a friendlier judge :)

So, a Federal judge agreed that there was enough evidence to support Probable Cause of criminal behavior?
 
So, a Federal judge agreed that there was enough evidence to support Probable Cause of criminal behavior?

just like federal judges said blacks couldn't be citizens, or that private enterprise could use eminent domain to take the property of citizens to increase a tax base, or that corporations could spend millions to buy an election for a specific candidate?????? those federal judges?????
 
just like federal judges said blacks couldn't be citizens, or that private enterprise could use eminent domain to take the property of citizens to increase a tax base, or that corporations could spend millions to buy an election for a specific candidate?????? those federal judges?????

If you shop around you can find a judge to agree with you on anything :) You just have to find the right one.

The first judge said lol no so the Obama admin went around till they found a friendly one.
 
It also has to be brought up that the secret meeting between Bill Clinton and Attorney General Lynch happened right before the first request was rejected. Third we have seen that the intelligence community has no problem leaking things. It is not a stretch of the imagination to believe that the information gathered could have ended up with the Clinton camp or the DNC.
the IC leaks like dogs pissing on a fire hydrant -frequently and with little context
 
the IC leaks like dogs pissing on a fire hydrant -frequently and with little context

this is beggining to look like a huge scandal :P

If I can just shop around till i find a friendly judge then i can have all my election opponents under surveillance and then leak the findings :)
 
If you shop around you can find a judge to agree with you on anything :) You just have to find the right one.

The first judge said lol no so the Obama admin went around till they found a friendly one.

You have a cite to indicate it was a different judge that granted the warrant?
 
this is beggining to look like a huge scandal :P

If I can just shop around till i find a friendly judge then i can have all my election opponents under surveillance and then leak the findings :)
I was reading thru your BBC link..all this is very clear how it went down

1. Neither Mr Trump nor his associates are named in the Fisa order, which would only cover foreign citizens or foreign entities - in this case the Russian banks. But ultimately, the investigation is looking for transfers of money from Russia to the United States, each one, if proved, a felony offence.

2. A lawyer- outside the Department of Justice but familiar with the case - told me that three of Mr Trump's associates were the subject of the inquiry. "But it's clear this is about Trump," he said.

3.I spoke to all three of those identified by this source. All of them emphatically denied any wrongdoing. "Hogwash," said one. "Bullshit," said another. Of the two Russian banks, one denied any wrongdoing, while the other did not respond to a request for comment.

4.The investigation was active going into the election. During that period, the leader of the Democrats in the Senate, Harry Reid, wrote to the director of the FBI, accusing him of holding back "explosive information" about Mr Trump.

++

and it fits Harry Reid's character he would want a raw sleezey dossier released by Comey.

Notice this was all before the election- this is how they were out to get Trump
It was a hogwash fishing expedition.
And I'm sure the IC co-operated on leakage /it would not surprise me if it was leaked toWiki
-I mean we know they leak to the press *SLEEZE*
 
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