American female chess champ refuses to wear hijab in Iran tournament

Milagro said:
Yes all very interesting but what about women in chess?

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If a woman from Europe came to America to compete in a chess tournament, but demanded to play topless, would authorities allow it?
Europe isn't hung up on nudity the way we are. Similarly, Iran is hung up on women covering themselves. Non sequitur aside, isn't this the real question here?
 
Althea said:
If a woman from Europe came to America to compete in a chess tournament, but demanded to play topless, would authorities allow it?
Europe isn't hung up on nudity the way we are. Similarly, Iran is hung up on women covering themselves. Non sequitur aside, isn't this the real question here?
Click to expand...

No not really, if they want the outside world to attend their events then they'll have to accept that their dress policies are an anathema to Western women.

Now topless chess that's an interesting idea, maybe you could try and keep abreast of any news on that front?

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when in Rome.....wear the hijab in public at least.
Tehran is emphatic about this -they have the fashion police and such
 
anatta said:
when in Rome.....wear the hijab in public at least.
Tehran is emphatic about this -they have the fashion police and such
Click to expand...
Fuck 'em, they should all just boycott the competition!!

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"If a woman from Europe came to America to compete in a chess tournament, but demanded to play topless, would authorities allow it?
Europe isn't hung up on nudity the way we are. Similarly, Iran is hung up on women covering themselves. Non sequitur aside, isn't this the real question here?" A #21

a) Thank you for this insightfully made point.

b) I think your comparison / contrast isn't fully valid.
The hijab isn't to cover something near universally considered indecent, an issue of MORALITY. Instead it's a demonstration of piety, an issue of RELIGION.
In Islam, women are free to NOT wear the hijab, when at home with family.
But would you want your mother, your sister to strut around your house topless?

c) Therefore perhaps we ARE bound by the MORAL dictates of Rome, when in Rome.
BUT !!
Being coerced to comply with a RELIGIOUS expression for a religion the individual does not follow is an obvious conflict.

If I were a Jew I wouldn't want skin-heads wearing yamikas.
If I were a Catholic I wouldn't want Hindus wearing crucifixes.
So why would Muslims prefer an infidel wearing a hijab in their presence?
 
PS

Boink " 'em, they should all just boycott the competition!!" M #25

And thereby forfeit the competition, and the championship to the religious oppressors? Why reward them so generously for their being dictatorial?

It might make more sense to relocate the venue, to a locus where invalid religious requirements are not imposed. Then let THEM forfeit if they wish.
 
Ut oh. The liberals are really really going to be pissed!

You don't piss off their Islamic allies like that!
 
Milagro said:
Fuck 'em, they should all just boycott the competition!!

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why? is wearing a hijab such an onerous thing? it's a mark of respect for the host country.
There are some nice one's on Tehran streets.

or just wear a light veil
 
" is wearing a hijab such an onerous thing? " a #29

a) Perhaps not for you.

b) Some behaviorists, philosophers, psychologists might call it hypocrisy, perhaps treachery.
Perhaps one of the chess finalists is NOT Muslim, and wouldn't mind wearing fashionable head-wear.

What if one of the chess finalists is Jewish? Should she allow herself to be coerced into complying with RELIGIOUS custom she does not endorse?

And so then, is it so far wrong for those that are not Jewish to resist complying with the demand, in solidarity with with those that have objection? Complying with the demand establishes a precedent. Subsequent conscientious violation of that precedent might seem to be an even more egregious offense. That's a babe best strangled in the crib.

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." Thomas Paine
 
Milagro said:
No not really, if they want the outside world to attend their events then they'll have to accept that their dress policies are an anathema to Western women.

Now topless chess that's an interesting idea, maybe you could try and keep abreast of any news on that front?

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The question was whether or not you believe this country would allow topless women to attend these tournaments.
 
sear said:
"If a woman from Europe came to America to compete in a chess tournament, but demanded to play topless, would authorities allow it?
Europe isn't hung up on nudity the way we are. Similarly, Iran is hung up on women covering themselves. Non sequitur aside, isn't this the real question here?" A #21

a) Thank you for this insightfully made point.

b) I think your comparison / contrast isn't fully valid.
The hijab isn't to cover something near universally considered indecent, an issue of MORALITY. Instead it's a demonstration of piety, an issue of RELIGION.
In Islam, women are free to NOT wear the hijab, when at home with family.
But would you want your mother, your sister to strut around your house topless?

c) Therefore perhaps we ARE bound by the MORAL dictates of Rome, when in Rome.
BUT !!
Being coerced to comply with a RELIGIOUS expression for a religion the individual does not follow is an obvious conflict.

If I were a Jew I wouldn't want skin-heads wearing yamikas.
If I were a Catholic I wouldn't want Hindus wearing crucifixes.
So why would Muslims prefer an infidel wearing a hijab in their presence?
Click to expand...
I see your point, but I believe for many Muslim men, the covering in public is also about reminding women that they are second class citizens. I agree 100% about people who don't belong to a religion not abiding by the 'rules' of same, but isn't the hijab a societal issue as well? Literally, or figuratively?
 
sear said:
" is wearing a hijab such an onerous thing? " a #29

a) Perhaps not for you.

b) Some behaviorists, philosophers, psychologists might call it hypocrisy, perhaps treachery.
Perhaps one of the chess finalists is NOT Muslim, and wouldn't mind wearing fashionable head-wear.

What if one of the chess finalists is Jewish? Should she allow herself to be coerced into complying with RELIGIOUS custom she does not endorse?

And so then, is it so far wrong for those that are not Jewish to resist complying with the demand, in solidarity with with those that have objection? Complying with the demand establishes a precedent. Subsequent conscientious violation of that precedent might seem to be an even more egregious offense. That's a babe best strangled in the crib.

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." Thomas Paine
Click to expand...
Whenever a female American reporter goes to a Muslim country, they cover their head out of respect. I would venture to say that in some countries, it would be considered a crime for a woman to appear in public without a head covering.

When anyone goes to shul, they must cover their head....no matter their religion. It's just taking this concept to the nth degree in Muslim countries.
 
A pleasant looking young woman. Why would anyone want to not see her face?

Hijab-protes-Cover-800x445.jpg
 
Milagro said:
Oh and you've obviously never heard of Judit Polgár, she became a Grandmaster at the age of fifteen beating the record set by Bobby Fischer. She has also defeated both Gary Kasparov and Boris Spassky. Maybe a better question might be why so many Russian and Eastern European players dominate chess, fancy answering that one?

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Easy, they play more often.
 
professionals play all the time/study all the time -etc. no matter where they are from.

Eastern Europe and Russia do emphasize chess much earleir and much more then the US -
but agian I'm seeing a lot more interest from youth in the USA then when I was a kid.
I started in 1959

Back then chess was tedious -no computers,no auto-play. just books and boards
 
anatta said:
professionals play all the time/study all the time -etc. no matter where they are from.

Eastern Europe and Russia do emphasize chess much earleir and much more then the US -
but agian I'm seeing a lot more interest from youth in the USA then when I was a kid.
I started in 1959

Back then chess was tedious -no computers,no auto-play. just books and boards
Click to expand...


Well, dumb dumb, it surely seemed that milagro was implying that more Russian and Eastern Europeans were among the ranks of professionals. Is that not the case? Regardless, there are always some who play/practice more than others and, of course, your claim that "all professionals play all the time" can not be literally true.

If it is true that participation in the US is increasing then we will see more from the USA soon.
 
"Whenever a female American reporter goes to a Muslim country, they cover their head out of respect. I would venture to say that in some countries, it would be considered a crime for a woman to appear in public without a head covering." a #34

Understood.
Not just reporters but everyone, including our military.
I heard a radio interview with a U.S. military officer that was stationed in Saudi Arabia.
Her commander gave her the orders. But she disobeyed them, on basis of U.S. military regulations, which specify what kind of head-cover must be worn with the fatigue uniform.
There were additional issues about her driving herself. The Saudis wanted her to be chauffeured by a male.

Too dam bad.

If Catholics don't want to eat meat on Thursday, FINE!
If Catholics don't want me to eat meat on Thursday, TOO BAD! I'll have the rib-eye!
 
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