Dems hit 1st night out of the park

Darla said:
I have to say I disagree, I know you guys are tired of my disagreeing with you, but I can't not say it.

The democratic base has a bulwark against tea party like movements. NO one can win the democratic primary without the minority vote, and especially without the black vote. This is why Bernie didn't win.

Now, I do believe the party has moved to the left, but that happened without Bernie. Bernie capitalized on that IMO, he did not cause it. I often even wonder if Warren feels her work was appropriated by him. And let's put aside wall street for a minute, where exactly did the party move left? I believe that AA's are a big part of that move. They moved the party to the left on criminal justice, on drug sentencing, on racial disparities in sentencing.

I just disagree with anyone who believes the future of the Democratic party is with white people. I'm sorry, it's not. This doesn't mean white people aren't important, in fact, single white women are actually a big part of the Obama coalition, but the future of the party isn't white. I personally feel this feel the bern thing was our own last gasp of angry white men. Sure there were some women, there are some on the angry right too! But it's mainly the last gasp of white male hegemony. White men don't elect our nominees anymore, they don't. They never will again.
Click to expand...
Though it is true that progressive activist do tend to be white middle class I wouldn't make an assumption that they and minorities are mutually exclusive in their goals. Conversely, minorities cannot do it on their own either. That's where your argument falls short.
 
Darla said:
I have no problem building a coalition with the 90% of Bernie voters who are now voting for Hillary.

I will never make an asshat out of myself by groveling and begging for the Sarandon's of this world to join me. That's just stupid.

Nor will I give sole credit for Hillary's platform to a man. I reject the male idea that I have to do that in order to be in a coalition. I know Hillary for a long time. She's a liberal.
Click to expand...
No one I know is saying you have too.
 
Thing1 said:
I thought Elizabeth Warren was the weakest primetime moment. Not a bad speech, but she should have gone first, followed by Michelle Obama & Booker.

Bernie hit all the right notes. What a leader; not easy for him to do, I'm sure, but the Clinton campaign had to be thrilled w/ his speech.

They already talked about more specific policy & ideas than Republicans did the entire week. The contrast is pretty extraordinary.
Click to expand...

:rofl:
 
Darla said:
Maybe I do give him less credit than he deserves, but if so it's in response to the over the top credit, the sole credit really, that has been basked upon him by a fawning media and Hillary haters.

Also I do know some of his supporters very personally, and that plays into my feelings on this. Very much so, but I can't get into details on the board. Suffice to say none of the ones I know are millennials, none are women, and all are arrogant purist asshats.
Click to expand...
I have to admit that some of the Bernie bros I've met are pussies who can dish it out but not take it.
 
Darla said:
You don't know these people. They aren't voting Democrat. I guess the one thing my years among them, among them Mott, I slept with them, I partied with them, I protested with them, I spent weeks away with them, I reported on them, I wrote about them...has given me is this. You can talk down to me and say what you want, but I know them. You don't. They aren't voting Democrat. They never have.
They never will.
Click to expand...
I have to admit. I never have. Since I've joined the Democratic party in 2004 I have pretty much viewed the progressives as the moron branch of the party. I have not been impressed with them. The ones I have met are completely out of touch with how the world really works.

Having said that....I stand by my point. If Bernie convinces them to vote Dem that is significant and if that had happened in 2000 we would have been spared the catastrophic Bush years.
 
Darla said:
I feel like that was a racist, nativist movement that has always been there and always been strong in the R base. But the R base did the work and they came out for midterms and had a grass roots movement. Let's see the left do that. I haven't seen it yet. Still has to be proved.
Click to expand...
I think it was more a frustrated angry people who are tired of getting screwed by the status quo movement. If that's so...then the common thread is there.
 
Darla said:
And no one will be happier than me if they do it btw! We would have a chance of getting congress back if the majority of the cry babies in the dem base actually voted in off year elections. I do. I always vote. Come on berners, prove me wrong!
Click to expand...
True....I chewed out some of my wifes younger friends for that back in 2014. All of them had been too busy to vote. Had better things to do. They all hated "So and So" and didn't like a particular party but they didn't vote.
 
Darla said:
Well I feel a bit resentful of this. I'm a Hillary voter, like millions of other primary voters. I don't want her pursuing Bernie's issues, if I did, I would have voted for him. He's way too left for me. I am pro fair trade, I am not for free college (except for community college or trade school), etc. I at one time would have supported his health care plan, but I now view it as unrealistic. I mean there is a lot of stuff. Why do I have to be erased? I don't want to be erased.

It's fine he should campaign for her, that's fine. It will help him build his own political capital if he does so successfully. But I tire of the "he moved her to the left" meme. I was there in the 90's when she was a dangerous radical lefty who had to be stopped. Sure she moved right in the intervening years, but her liberal positions IMO are hers and she comes by them honestly. And don't forget she moved him to the left on guns.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure why you're resentful? Yea...He's way too left on many issues. But Hillary won't win without Bernie's camp. She was pro TPP, and pro Keystone. To be against TPP is not the same as being against trade.

Every trade deal we've signed has helped only one industry in this country....Big Agra. Everyone else loses jobs.

So...if we can't find a way to force corporations to manufacture here, trade deals don't work for this country.


Right now, Trans Canada is suing the U.S because we put a stop to Keystone. TPP fortifies the laws that allow corporations to sue govts.


Not interested.
 
Maryland and Virginia ( both slave states) ceded the land for DC. I think it was slaves, whites and European immigrants that did the actual first construction -and that is for a lot of the original buildings..

what got me about the speech is Mrs. Obama saying Hillary is this only one that can be first female.
But I suppose we gotta do this, first black/female -then what? Hispanic/Native American..all fine
except for the fact it overlooks the shittiness of Clinton for POTUS.
 
Looks like Bernie has forced a public option ( finally) for old peeps, as well as getting rid of the TPP.
But Clinton is a free trade globalist, so you gotta wonder how long that will last.

By the time I'm either dead/uninterested/or on Medicare - dope smoking will be legal and Medicare for all might actually happen
 
Althea said:
I'm not sure why you're resentful? Yea...He's way too left on many issues. But Hillary won't win without Bernie's camp. She was pro TPP, and pro Keystone. To be against TPP is not the same as being against trade.

Every trade deal we've signed has helped only one industry in this country....Big Agra. Everyone else loses jobs.

So...if we can't find a way to force corporations to manufacture here, trade deals don't work for this country.


Right now, Trans Canada is suing the U.S because we put a stop to Keystone. TPP fortifies the laws that allow corporations to sue govts.


Not interested.
Click to expand...

I believe I explained it as best I can.

As far as the TPP goes, that is Obama's deal and the Sanders people were never going to get an anti-TPP phrase into the platform. You don't do that to the President. When Hillary is elected I'll look at it again, it hasn't been a big issue for me.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I have to admit. I never have. Since I've joined the Democratic party in 2004 I have pretty much viewed the progressives as the moron branch of the party. I have not been impressed with them. The ones I have met are completely out of touch with how the world really works.

Having said that....I stand by my point. If Bernie convinces them to vote Dem that is significant and if that had happened in 2000 we would have been spared the catastrophic Bush years.
Click to expand...

I wish him luck.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I have to admit. I never have. Since I've joined the Democratic party in 2004 I have pretty much viewed the progressives as the moron branch of the party. I have not been impressed with them. The ones I have met are completely out of touch with how the world really works.

Having said that....I stand by my point. If Bernie convinces them to vote Dem that is significant and if that had happened in 2000 we would have been spared the catastrophic Bush years.
Click to expand...

It makes me really sick now to think of the effect Nader had. I mean, with how tight it was in FL, there is no doubt that Gore would have won without him in the race.

Iraq was a generation-defining war. We'll be digging out for that for the rest of my life, on several levels. What an absolute catastrophe.
 
Thing1 said:
It makes me really sick now to think of the effect Nader had. I mean, with how tight it was in FL, there is no doubt that Gore would have won without him in the race.

Iraq was a generation-defining war. We'll be digging out for that for the rest of my life, on several levels. What an absolute catastrophe.
Click to expand...

If my memory serves Nadar is such a pos that he actually went and campaigned in swing states like Florida. And to this day he and his supporters, whom I call the pitchfork left, or sometimes the Chavez left, defend that. So you just can't talk sense to these people IMO and in my experience. I really don't know what planet they live on.
 
Darla said:
If my memory serves Nadar is such a pos that he actually went and campaigned in swing states like Florida. And to this day he and his supporters, whom I call the pitchfork left, or sometimes the Chavez left, defend that. So you just can't talk sense to these people IMO and in my experience. I really don't know what planet they live on.
Click to expand...

Nader's raiders. What losers. Nice death & destruction, guys - way to stick to principle.

Sometimes, you just have to think pragmatically. It's not a sin.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top