Conservative myth of the day

Grind is Dead said:
mott you should be smart enough to know that terms like "conservative" are very meaningless without context. A conservative back then (one who supported the current government, the taxes, tarrifs, etc would have quite a lot in common with "liberals" today).
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As opposed to conservatives now who want to keep the status quo of corporatism and profits before country? Not so much different at all if you ask me
 
the point is conservative means different things in different times and in different places. It's asinine to conflate them as if they were backed by the same beliefs.
 
Grind is Dead said:
the point is conservative means different things in different times and in different places. It's asinine to conflate them as if they were backed by the same beliefs.
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True....it's equally asinine to compare the racist Southern Democrats of old, to Democrats today. I also think it's unfair to compare Dems to Socialists or Communists. We don't have a "Socialist Agenda"...in other words, the goal isn't government CONTROL. It's government stepping in and doing the job when the Free Market fails, or becomes so corrupt that it's no longer free. A good example is the Health Care system. While Obama's AHCA is a start in the right direction, it's no where near perfect. It failed to address the issue of cost.
For example, do you realize that we, as taxpayers help foot the bill for medical research, and then we take it up the ass again when it comes to drug costs and Med/Tech equipment while the rest of the world gets the same drugs and the same equipment for just a small markup? That's not Capitalism, that's extractionism, they extract the money out of the Public coffers, never pay it back and charge outrageous prices. That's not even getting into the whole "Fee for Service" ripoff. The whole "for profit" healthcare system is a scam that's bilking us for trillions of dollars on a continual basis....between what we pay as taxpayers and what we pay as consumers.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Apparently you don't know the difference between fact and opinion. Those are hard cold facts. Everytime we've tried to expand freedom and liberty in this nation it has been vehemently opposed by conservatives. Fact, not opinion.
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What you are doing is taking a monolithic definition of "conservative" and "liberal" and then, transposing this over a broad spectrum of liberal social changes, to present a picture of conservatives always being opposed. The fact that conservatives have always opposed liberal policies, just confirms there is a difference between conservative and liberal. Now, if every single aspect of our history and greatness as a nation, was the result of nothing but liberal policies, specifically, liberal social policy, then you may have some kind of a point here, but that is not the case. It's just that liberal social policies are the most important aspect to you, a liberal. You conveniently forget to mention the thousands of times we completely ignored liberals entirely, and followed the conservative policy, where the liberal policy would have resulted in our demise as a nation, had we followed it.

We would have never declared independence from England, for one thing. Liberals, in today's form, would have argued that we needed to pay HIGHER taxes to England, especially "the rich." We would have never built a transcontinental railroad, because today's liberal wouldn't have stood for it, all those capitalists making profits off the labor of poor Chinamen....no, there would have needed to be a labor union to negotiate wages and benefits, and the cost of building a railroad under those conditions would have rendered it impossible to do. Liberals would have argued it was the Government's place to build the railroad, and it wouldn't be fair to only have it travel to certain cities and only east and west, too many poor unfortunate people who wouldn't have access to the railroad, and liberals wouldn't have stood for that. Then there is the War of 1812 we would have never won, because the only way we were able to win, was by securing the services of the French Navy, in return for cheap cotton. Cotton wouldn't have been cheap under Liberal policies, because, no slaves. If by some miracle we made it through that war, there are the dozens of other wars we would have never fought. We wouldn't have a Texas or California, or much in between, because Liberals would have never fought for land that didn't belong to them. We would also not have a Florida, and most of the midwest would still be covered in Indians. Had we followed "liberal" policy, if we even existed at all today, we'd likely be 13 totally dependent British colonies on the East coast of North America, and nothing more. In fact, we wouldn't have even had 13... several of those states existed for the sole purpose of growing and raising cotton and tobacco, which would not have existed in a Liberal world.

So you can see how the application of a monolith works here, and it's patently stupid. We don't live in a monolith, where only one side is valid. Most every human being has views which span from liberal to conservative, if you think about it. Now think about it! As "liberal" as you are, I bet that your viewpoint is quite "conservative" when it comes to who can have sex with your wife. I am as "conservative" as can be, but when it comes to doing things in my community to help people in need, I am a bleeding heart liberal in every way. And everyone is not like you or me, everyone is different, and have different varying conservative and liberal views on various things. The REAL problem here is, the application of labels and the assumptions of stereotypes applied to those labels.

You have a problem with this, as do MANY liberals. You want to sit there and label people... "conservative" or "like me!" Two boxes, and you put people in one or the other, based on your assumptions and stereotypes and the labels you've applied. While this is fantastic for social interaction, it is not conducive with progress. In order to have progress, you have to remove people from boxes and reason out all the ideas, working toward a common goal or solution to problems. You have to respect that everyone isn't liberal, that some people are conservative in their views, and they are part of the discussion too. You can't do this when you've put them in a box, and only value the opinions of those in your own box. This is certainly not a "liberal" approach, it's very "fascist" as a matter of fact.
 
Grind is Dead said:
the point is conservative means different things in different times and in different places. It's asinine to conflate them as if they were backed by the same beliefs.
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I think the problem is that today's republicans, rather than an honest outreach to blacks, have literally taken up the talking point that the democrats of fifty years ago were racist without acknowledging Nixon's southern strategy.
 
Paperplate said:
True....it's equally asinine to compare the racist Southern Democrats of old, to Democrats today. I also think it's unfair to compare Dems to Socialists or Communists. We don't have a "Socialist Agenda"...in other words, the goal isn't government CONTROL. It's government stepping in and doing the job when the Free Market fails, or becomes so corrupt that it's no longer free. A good example is the Health Care system. While Obama's AHCA is a start in the right direction, it's no where near perfect. It failed to address the issue of cost.
For example, do you realize that we, as taxpayers help foot the bill for medical research, and then we take it up the ass again when it comes to drug costs and Med/Tech equipment while the rest of the world gets the same drugs and the same equipment for just a small markup? That's not Capitalism, that's extractionism, they extract the money out of the Public coffers, never pay it back and charge outrageous prices. That's not even getting into the whole "Fee for Service" ripoff. The whole "for profit" healthcare system is a scam that's bilking us for trillions of dollars on a continual basis....between what we pay as taxpayers and what we pay as consumers.
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Your ignorance is astounding even for a lefty
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Apparently you don't know the difference between fact and opinion. Those are hard cold facts. Everytime we've tried to expand freedom and liberty in this nation it has been vehemently opposed by conservatives. Fact, not opinion.
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You're being retarded trying to equate the modern conservative movement with the past sins of Democrats. This is a huge fail for you Moot.
 
DamnYankee said:
You're being retarded trying to equate the modern movement with the past sins of Democrats. This is a huge fail for you Moot.
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See what I mean? They even admit it!

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/ben-shapiros-groundbreaking-advice-gop-demonize-obama

Breitbart News Editor-At-Large Ben Shapiro is out with an innovative and pioneering game plan for Republicans: attack Democrats. Shapiro spoke to Pat Robertson today on the 700 Club where he maintained that Republicans lost the last election because they didn’t try to demonize President Obama, who “painted Mitt Romney as the worst guy since Stalin.”

That’s right, according to Shapiro, Republicans were simply too afraid to criticize Obama during the campaign.

Shapiro offers even more brilliant advice later in the interview, where he told Republicans to respond to allegations of racism by calling Democrats “racist for boiling racism down to anything with which you disagree; what that does is it demeans racism and makes racism into something that means nothing and that’s something that Republicans need to do on a more regular basis.”
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There is some truth to that assertion. If the Democrats can be unabashed about their Liberalism, Republicans should be equally uncompromising about Conservatism.

On that note, let me offer a bit of clarification. Conservatives are not necessarily opposed to progress, just opposed to change for just for the sake of change. And Conservatism is about results!, not intentions.
 
Steelplate said:
What does that have to do with what I described? Nothing...
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Actually no, it has everything to do with the DNC platform and the overall politics of the Democrat party. If you line up the ideology of Socialists, they line up perfectly with American Democrats, so you are busted!!
 
Boris The Animal said:
Actually no, it has everything to do with the DNC platform and the overall politics of the Democrat party. If you line up the ideology of Socialists, they line up perfectly with American Democrats, so you are busted!!
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Never argue with an idiot....they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
 
Steelplate said:
Never argue with an idiot....they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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Damn, I missed the "argument" part. What I see is you getting completely PWNED, then hurlin ad homs, after complaining about them. I think you are maybe not ready for prime time here. Our morons and goofballs generally do a better job of hanging in there, finding just enough propaganda and links to at least look like they are presenting an argument for something. You should probably go back to posting snarky comments on conservative facebook pages or something, because you really suck at this.
 
From the link:

"In a socialist system the people own and control the means of production and distribution through democratically controlled public agencies, cooperatives, or other collective groups."

The democratic party has no desire to take the ownership and means of production and distribution away from the capitalist marketplace
 
Dixie said:
Damn, I missed the "argument" part. What I see is you getting completely PWNED, then hurlin ad homs, after complaining about them. I think you are maybe not ready for prime time here. Our morons and goofballs generally do a better job of hanging in there, finding just enough propaganda and links to at least look like they are presenting an argument for something. You should probably go back to posting snarky comments on conservative facebook pages or something, because you really suck at this.
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Really? You fucking moron, I've been posting paragraphs of information about the extraction of wealth from our country....not a fucking word. Other than snarky ideological bullshit from your brethren. But because it's YOUR cronies, you sit idly by.... but when I get called a fucking Socialist by those same people and refuse to respond, I'm not ready for prime time?
 
I like how liberalism was once a movement to build up American industry and free markets, but today it is a movement to destroy these things.
 
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