Where's the moral outrage?

[Canceled2]

Hypocrite? Let's take a closer look.

You asked why Obama hasn't closed Gitmo. Looks like you forgot all the opposition including those against decent trials. So, we had a trial. The world didn't come to an end but the opposition is still there.

Drones. We wouldn't need drones if there wasn't a war. As I mentioned before the citizens who became "traitors" to their own country by openly supporting the US are now marked people by the rest of the citizens in their country so the US has to provide security for them. Whose fault was that?

Bush had no intention of leaving those countries so the citizens believed they would have constant protection. Now that Obama has stated the troops will come home he has to ensure those "traitors" aren't slaughtered.

See what I mean by the mess Bush/Repubs did? They promised protection to those who turned against their own country/citizens by leading the people to believe the US would be there permanently. How else could he promise protection?

There was a report on TV saying the people being trained as Police in Afghanistan are mostly illiterate. Basically, thugs being trained in Police tactics and some are extorting food/money from the citizens.

The Repub goal was to take over Afghanistan and Iraq and install puppet governments. Simple as that. Then train citizens as Police to uphold US type laws/customs.

Now that the US will be leaving those trained will uphold their own laws/customs and because those countries were already divided it's a set-up for civil war.

That's what happens when people screw around with other countries. Those are the consequences and the Repubs knew they couldn't change their society in a few years. The Repubs knew they would have to stay there, probably for generations. Who wouldn't understand that? Does anyone think a country's culture can be changed in a few years?

The Repub plan was to create a situation where the US couldn't leave and they did that by disrupting the entire country. That's the mess Obama has to deal with.

It's not that difficult to figure out.

I have forgot nothing about Obama's outrage over Gitmo and his promise that it would be at the top of his agenda after taking office! He had the power to do so, but did not shut it down! YOU and others like you (those who called its existence criminal) are hypocrites because you no longer rail against its existence.

Drones into Pakistan? Killing likely innocent civilians in a country we are NOT at war with? Another one of Obama's vocal outrages whilke a junior senator from Il. What has he done? He has increased the practice...as to the war itself? Numerous dems supported it...but a large constituency is against it...where is all the verbal outrage against this president?...Hypocrite!

The practice of rendition?...I remember well how Tom was just sickened by it! The PA? Expanded broadly under this administration...you know the one whose constituency screamed (rightfully so) at this piece of legislation...now just silence and often defense of it (when Obama expands it)

 

[Cancel8]

I have forgot nothing about Obama's outrage over Gitmo and his promise that it would be at the top of his agenda after taking office! He had the power to do so, but did not shut it down! YOU and others like you (those who called its existence criminal) are hypocrites because you no longer rail against its existence.

Drones into Pakistan? Killing likely innocent civilians in a country we are NOT at war with? Another one of Obama's vocal outrages whilke a junior senator from Il. What has he done? He has increased the practice...as to the war itself? Numerous dems supported it...but a large constituency is against it...where is all the verbal outrage against this president?...Hypocrite!

The practice of rendition?...I remember well how Tom was just sickened by it! The PA? Expanded broadly under this administration...you know the one whose constituency screamed (rightfully so) at this piece of legislation...now just silence and often defense of it (when Obama expands it)

I wonder why those who opposed the Patriot Act are not opposing the government's attempts to shut down Wikileaks?

 

[Canceled2]

I wonder why those who opposed the Patriot Act are not opposing the government's attempts to shut down Wikileaks?

Perhaps because the PA has nothing to do with what is happening with Wiki. Wiki's owner is being investigated under the Espionage Act.

 

[Onceler]

I disagree. Bravo is more like the right-wing midcan. He posts much of his own stuff, and is passionate about his thoughts. Bravo is admired by most of his right-wing counterparts, because he is an articulate and well-spoken advocate of conservatism, and we can relate to what he says. Can you honestly say the same for apple? Have you read some of that idiots ramblings? You're telling me, this apple is someone you look up to and admire? His expressed views are in agreement with your views? You better check your apples before you bite on that one, that's all I have to say.

Bravo is an insufferable hack; he is more immersed in koolaid than you are, which is really saying something. You're up to your neck in koolaid; he's really submerged.

Both of your are shameless apologists for the right, though. It's not surprising that you have a view of him as being "admired."

 

[apple0154]

I noticed you forgot a couple other words in my sentence. Perhaps they were too small. The words you forgot were:

AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL

Meaning that if a certain state (Like Hawaii) wanted to pass it's own type of health care system, and it was permitted by their states constitution, they can go fucking nuts. So no, Nigel is not more correct. Apple the government is not the solution to every problem.

The government isn't the solution to every problem but it is the solution to health care which is shown to be the case in every country with universal health care. No exceptions. Not one country has reverted to a "pay or suffer" system.

As for an individual state implementing universal health care and a citizen's right to freely relocate that particular state would attract all the ill people unable to afford care elsewhere.

But back to what I wrote regarding "intrusion" and "limited government" why would that be counter to helping citizens when the Preamble clearly states the reason for the Constitution is to benefit the "general welfare"? What is the first thing one thinks of when considering the general welfare of any one or any country? Is it not the health of the citizens?

If an epidemic swept the country, such as is happening in Haiti, are you saying the Federal Government should sit on the sidelines and just watch?

Were you against the Federal Government helping (such as it was) in New Orleans?

 

[Bai Lan]

Not one country has reverted to a "pay or suffer" system.

You always say this like it's somehow a meaningful argument. This proves nothing. It doesn't prove it's a superior system. It just proves the global elites are having their way with the populace with their eugenics corporate medicine voodoo.

 

[apple0154]

I disagree. Bravo is more like the right-wing midcan. He posts much of his own stuff, and is passionate about his thoughts. Bravo is admired by most of his right-wing counterparts, because he is an articulate and well-spoken advocate of conservatism, and we can relate to what he says. Can you honestly say the same for apple? Have you read some of that idiots ramblings? You're telling me, this apple is someone you look up to and admire? His expressed views are in agreement with your views? You better check your apples before you bite on that one, that's all I have to say.

Oh, you flatterer, you!

 

[NOVA]

Hey! Thanks for the mention.

You're the right-wing apple. Just so's you know.

Compared to Apple, everyone is freakin' right-wing....
This clown is just too much for sane, rational people....

When you claim its better to abort humans because they MIGHT grow up in poverty or MIGHT be abused, you've gotta have a sick and twisted mind.

 

[cancel2 2022]

Until your profound ideas and wisdom can turn your own country around, then come back and cast your pearls of wisdom upon us.

Until then you creep, STFU and STFD.

I see that charm school is working wonders for you,

 

[apple0154]

I have forgot nothing about Obama's outrage over Gitmo and his promise that it would be at the top of his agenda after taking office! He had the power to do so, but did not shut it down! YOU and others like you (those who called its existence criminal) are hypocrites because you no longer rail against its existence.

Drones into Pakistan? Killing likely innocent civilians in a country we are NOT at war with? Another one of Obama's vocal outrages whilke a junior senator from Il. What has he done? He has increased the practice...as to the war itself? Numerous dems supported it...but a large constituency is against it...where is all the verbal outrage against this president?...Hypocrite!

The practice of rendition?...I remember well how Tom was just sickened by it! The PA? Expanded broadly under this administration...you know the one whose constituency screamed (rightfully so) at this piece of legislation...now just silence and often defense of it (when Obama expands it)

Ask yourself what changed from the way the world supported the US immediately after 911 and the way the world looked at the US during Bush's reign. What changed, Ice Dancer? The whole world went nuts but Bush was correct?

Allies, one by one, dropping away. Hate growing in Arab countries. What happened, Ice Dancer?

What happened was Bush made enemies everywhere. The people in Arab countries realized the goal was not the terrorists which was obvious with Saddam.

The point being the countries we so selfishly want to help don't want our help. They don't want the West there. It's as simple as that and the longer we stay the more enemies we will make. Unfortunately, just saying, "Opps, we blew up your country but we're going home now", doesn't quite cut it.

As for Gitmo, yes, it was wrong just like the treatment of the prisoners in Yabba Dabba Doo. (Think Fred.) So it's no longer just us against the terrorists. It's us against the people who witnessed those atrocities. We've added them to our enemies or, more accurately, they added us. Rather than win against our enemy we've added more enemies. The situation has deteriorated, not improved. That's why Obama is having difficulty scaling things back when the situation has grown.

This video is old but it capsulizes what went wrong and why and it's humorous, as well.

 

[Cancel8]

Perhaps because the PA has nothing to do with what is happening with Wiki. Wiki's owner is being investigated under the Espionage Act.

I did not mean that the two incidents are linked, just that the people who opposed the Patriot Act don't seem to be applying the same criteria to the government's heavy-handed attempts to quash WikiLeaks.

Now, it's been reported that federal employees are forbidden to view the leaked files, even on their own time using their home computers.

If this had happened under Condoleeza Rice and John Ashcroft instead of under Hillary Clinton and Eric Holder, what do you suppose leftists would have said?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Bravo is an insufferable hack; he is more immersed in koolaid than you are, which is really saying something. You're up to your neck in koolaid; he's really submerged.

Both of your are shameless apologists for the right, though. It's not surprising that you have a view of him as being "admired."

Oh, it's not just my view, I think it's pretty unanimous among those on the right, we greatly admire and respect bravo's perspectives. You can do a poll on it if you like, bravo is one of the most popular righties on the board, except for me, of course. He has pretty much reached Living Legend status, he's just more modest about it than myself.

Shameless apologists? I don't have anything to apologize for! Sorry if you took something I said as an apology, I didn't intend it to be one. I can't speak for bravo, but he probably feels the same way. Koolaid submerged? Hmm.. Kettle? Hello? Yeah, this is Pot.......like dude, you're black!

 

[Cancel8]

Does this bother anyone?

"The American government has issued orders that all federal employees refrain from accessing or reading the released cables from either their federal offices or even their personal home computers. The government seems to feel that they have the ability to re-classify now publicly available documents as ‘secret’, or ‘top-secret’, and thereby circumvent the freedom of access to this information through censorship"...

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsme...se_tells_all_federal_agencies_to_ban_empl.php

"...federal employees are being warned not to look at documents leaked by WikiLeaks website, noting that despite their wide release, the hundreds of thousands of stolen papers are still classified by the U.S. government.

An internal memo sent late last week from the Office of Management and Budget and obtained by Fox News says that federal employees and contractors are "obligated to protect classified information pursuant to all applicable laws, and to use government information technology systems in accordance with agency procedures so that the integrity of such systems is not compromised...

Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, called Assange "a high-tech terrorist" who "has done enormous damage to our country."

"I think he needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. And if that becomes a problem, we need to change the law..."


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/12/05/administration-fed-workers-dont-read-wikileaks/

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I did not mean that the two incidents are linked, just that the people who opposed the Patriot Act don't seem to be applying the same criteria to the government's heavy-handed attempts to quash WikiLeaks.

Now, it's been reported that federal employees are forbidden to view the leaked files, even on their own time using their home computers.

If this had happened under Condoleeza Rice and John Ashcroft instead of under Hillary Clinton and Eric Holder, what do you suppose leftists would have said?

Oh, they would have been calling for impeachment hearings back when the Patriot Act was renewed! I'm sure they would have frog-marched Bush's Administration to The Hague for War Crimes Tribunals by now! None of this has EVER been about what they have claimed it to be! NOT A DAMN THING! All of their 'animosity' towards the wars, the intrusions on our privacy... the whole thing, is a SHAM by the left! It's about their precious Liberal Ideology! Everything they do, everything they say, every action they take, it is fundamentally designed to advance their stupid Liberal Democrat Socialist Agenda, and they simply don't care how hypocritical that looks, or what you think about it. They will merely tap dance away from things they don't want to discuss, make condescending remarks about Bush, and move on. It goes in one ear and out the other, because this has never been about war or rights, it's about liberal ideology!

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Oh, it's not just my view, I think it's pretty unanimous among those on the right, we greatly admire and respect bravo's perspectives. You can do a poll on it if you like, bravo is one of the most popular righties on the board, except for me, of course. He has pretty much reached Living Legend status, he's just more modest about it than myself.

Shameless apologists? I don't have anything to apologize for! Sorry if you took something I said as an apology, I didn't intend it to be one. I can't speak for bravo, but he probably feels the same way. Koolaid submerged? Hmm.. Kettle? Hello? Yeah, this is Pot.......like dude, you're black!

:megusta:

 

[Jarod]

For years many liberals who post here ranted and raved about:

Rendition-

Gitmo-

Drones-

Patriot Act-

Under Obama the practice of rendition has not stopped; Gitmo remains open; drones have increased; and Obama has expanded the reach of government under the PA.

Rendition - I never had an opinion before and dont now.

Gitmo - I understand it is the goal of the administration to close Gitmo, I am willing to give them some more time to get it done.

Drones - I never had an opinion before and would only say that in some cases the use of Drones is cool with me and in some cases it is not.

Patriot Act - I am and have always been very much opposed to SOME provisions of the PA, clearly Obama is not liberal enough for me, but he is better than others and is a good first step.

 

[Phantasmal]

When Obama was here in SF a few months back Code Pink was out protesting him. In retrospect I really wish I went to see these women in person.

Do I dare to ask why? and do try to piss me off, okay...

 

[Phantasmal]

Code Pink hasn't missed a beat; they gave Obama a honeymoon of about a month, then they were protesting him as they were Bush. The media doesn't cover them as much.

The so-called "far left" is completely disillusioned with Obama.

As for the board, BAC was probably more vocal than any other leftie I can think of, and he railed against Obama constantly before he split. Darla was also pretty consistent about that.

I just continue to write, letters, if everyone wishes for me to carry on, and rant and rave, much like Yurt does about his troll, I will. If I am able, I attend protest that are held here, but they aren't as frequent, but when attend other events, like my friends did at the Glenn Beck show here, they carry anti war signs!

It is by the far the thing I am must disappointed in Obama concerning his campaign promises and the person who delivered the address at the convention and the man who holds office do not seem, at times to be the same person.

 

[Phantasmal]

The glorious rise of the Libertarians is at hand.

Where, I haven't seen it and who are you sending to lead the charge?

 

[Phantasmal]

The difference is those things were implemented under Bush while Obama is trying to correct the situation.

For example, there has already been one terrorist trial in NYC. Recall people screaming it couldn't be done?

Like most things in life it's a lot easier to start something than it is to reverse course. Solutions and alternatives have to be found.

Rendition, Gitmo, Drones- where were the discussions/concerns over those before the wars with Iraq and Afghanistan?

As people have said Obama is charged with cleaning up the Bush/Republican mess. Do you really think it's fair to condemn him for not cleaning up someone elses mess as quickly as we would like?

One major problem was the goal in Afghanistan and Iraq was to turn the population against each other. Even though those societies were divided before people didn't take "active positions". In other words the problem, today, is the people who sided with the US require protection from the rest of society. It was a massive misjudgment just like the war mongers, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc., saying the citizens would have a welcoming committee!

Either Obama walks away and allows the people who backed the US to be overrun by the rest of the citizens or....

Obama is trying to make the best of Bush's FUBAR. Hopefully, seeing the delay and effort required will cause people to realize just how bad the decisions were that were taken under Bush. We are witnessing the consequences of actions previously taken.

Thanks, that helped a little! LYNCH, or sorry, wrong thread...