Death by Corona numbers explode to 61

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Dutch Uncle said:
Doubtful about the Senate. I fail to see why those elections would have matter. In fact, the mid-terms may have gone the other way like they did with both Obama and Trump.

One way for voters to impose "balance" on our government is to have the WH be one party and Congress the other. Even better is like we have now with each party loosely controlling one side of the building.
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You brought up funding
 
Althea said:
Again...hypothetical claims are never wrong. Or right.

9/11? Clinton made Bush aware of Bin Laden. Like trump, Bush was famous for ignoring briefings. I refuse to believe that Gore would not have been on the ball w/respect to 9/11. It was an ingenious plan, that used our own immigration system against us. It might very well have worked, but we would NOT have gone into Iraq.

Imagine a world with a Mid East that was still stable with Hussein keeping Iran in check?
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Agreed, but certainly you will agree that some hypothetical situations are more likely to be true than others.....or do you seriously believe Gore wouldn't have invaded Afghanistan after 9/11?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed, but certainly you will agree that some hypothetical situations are more likely to be true than others.....or do you seriously believe Gore wouldn't have invaded Afghanistan after 9/11?
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If Bin Laden were successful, (remember...it was Bush who was friends with him since childhood) of course Gore would have chased him into Afghanistan. Iraq is the issue. Not Afghanistan. Right now, (if we had a sane POTUS) we would be in Afg. in order to have proximity to Pakistan, who cannot protect its nukes from the Taliban. Otherwise, we have absolutely no reason to be there anymore.
 
Althea said:
If Bin Laden were successful, (remember...it was Bush who was friends with him since childhood) of course Gore would have chased him into Afghanistan. Iraq is the issue. Not Afghanistan. Right now, (if we had a sane POTUS) we would be in Afg. in order to have proximity to Pakistan, who cannot protect its nukes from the Taliban. Otherwise, we have absolutely no reason to be there anymore.
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Sorry, I don't do conspiracy theories about "Bush knew". The attack was years in the planning, the Clinton/Gore years, and Bush was a rookie President. I strongly doubt Gore would have foreseen and stopped the attack. It's the reaction that counts. The public outcry would have forced any president to completely neutralize Afgahnistan and al-Qaeda.

Agreed Iraq is the main issue. Gore wouldn't have been in there and I sided with General Powell on the issue.
 
Althea said:
If Bin Laden were successful, (remember...it was Bush who was friends with him since childhood) of course Gore would have chased him into Afghanistan. Iraq is the issue. Not Afghanistan. Right now, (if we had a sane POTUS) we would be in Afg. in order to have proximity to Pakistan, who cannot protect its nukes from the Taliban. Otherwise, we have absolutely no reason to be there anymore.
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ROFL..so you want US troops in Afghanistan to protect Pakistani nukes..uh huh.. :rolleyes:

https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/RL34248.html
. A number of important initiatives, such as strengthened export control laws, improved personnel security, and international nuclear security cooperation programs, have improved Pakistan’s nuclear security.

However, instability in Pakistan has called the extent and durability of these reforms into question. Some observers fear radical takeover of the Pakistani government or diversion of material or technology by personnel within Pakistan’s nuclear complex. While U.S. and Pakistani officials continue to express confidence in controls over Pakistan’s nuclear weapons, continued instability in the country could impact these safeguards.
 
Pakistani officials adamantly defend the safety of their nuclear program. In times of relative quiet between Pakistan and India (the country that would be the target of a Pakistani nuclear attack), they say that their weapons are “de‑mated” -- meaning that the warheads are kept separate from their fissile cores and their delivery systems. This makes stealing, or launching, a complete nuclear weapon far more difficult.
https://www.nti.org/gsn/article/the-pentagons-secret-plans-to-secure-pakistans-nuclear-arsenal/
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Sorry, I don't do conspiracy theories about "Bush knew". The attack was years in the planning, the Clinton/Gore years, and Bush was a rookie President. I strongly doubt Gore would have foreseen and stopped the attack. It's the reaction that counts. The public outcry would have forced any president to completely neutralize Afgahnistan and al-Qaeda.

Agreed Iraq is the main issue. Gore wouldn't have been in there and I sided with General Powell on the issue.
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Conspiracy theories typically begin with a modicum of truth, and devolve into fantasy. This isn't fantasy. Bush knew. He was too busy getting ready to reward his cronies for getting him elected. That, and trimming brush at the ranch. If you don't like Politico, this is public record. It can be found anywhere.



https://www.politico.eu/article/attacks-will-be-spectacular-cia-war-on-terror-bush-bin-laden/
 
Althea said:
Conspiracy theories typically begin with a modicum of truth, and devolve into fantasy. This isn't fantasy. Bush knew. He was too busy getting ready to reward his cronies for getting him elected. That, and trimming brush at the ranch. If you don't like Politico, this is public record. It can be found anywhere.

https://www.politico.eu/article/attacks-will-be-spectacular-cia-war-on-terror-bush-bin-laden/
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Thanks for the link. Disagreed Bush knew al-Qaeda pilots would fly airliners into the WTC and the Pentagon much less knew the date it would happen. What he knew was what Clinton knew his entire presidency: al-Qaeda was a Jihadist threat. What did Clinton do to stop the threat? The fact remains when a known terrorist group desires to attack the United States, at the time, it was impossible to be against every avenue of attack. That's a defense for both Clinton and Bush. Again, the main focus of where Bush went wrong was Iraq.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda#Late_1990s
In 1996, bin Laden personally engineered a plot to assassinate United States President Bill Clinton while the president was in Manila for the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation. However, intelligence agents intercepted a message before the motorcade was to leave, and alerted the US Secret Service. Agents later discovered a bomb planted under a bridge.[257]

On August 7, 1998, al-Qaeda bombed the US embassies in East Africa, killing 224 people, including 12 Americans. In retaliation, a barrage of cruise missiles launched by the US military devastated an al-Qaeda base in Khost, Afghanistan. The network's capacity was unharmed. In late 1999 and 2000, Al-Qaeda planned attacks to coincide with the millennium, masterminded by Abu Zubaydah and involving Abu Qatada, which would include the bombing of Christian holy sites in Jordan, the bombing of Los Angeles International Airport by Ahmed Ressam, and the bombing of the USS The Sullivans (DDG-68).

On October 12, 2000, al-Qaeda militants in Yemen bombed the missile destroyer USS Cole in a suicide attack, killing 17 US servicemen and damaging the vessel while it lay offshore. Inspired by the success of such a brazen attack, al-Qaeda's command core began to prepare for an attack on the US itself.
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Dutch Uncle said:
Thanks for the link. Disagreed Bush knew al-Qaeda pilots would fly airliners into the WTC and the Pentagon much less knew the date it would happen. What he knew was what Clinton knew his entire presidency: al-Qaeda was a Jihadist threat. What did Clinton do to stop the threat? The fact remains when a known terrorist group desires to attack the United States, at the time, it was impossible to be against every avenue of attack. That's a defense for both Clinton and Bush. Again, the main focus of where Bush went wrong was Iraq.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda#Late_1990s
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They also bombed the WTC, but failed to raze it.
 
Althea said:
They also bombed the WTC, but failed to raze it.
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Yes, I recall the 1993 bombing and the trial. The signs were there, but retaliation was limited due to laws and the diceness of the Middle East in general. IIRC, former Soviet "loose nukes" was the biggest concern of the time.
 
No one seems to have noticed that flu mortality has gone down by many thousands. Due to improved hygiene like washing hands, wearing masks and social distancing.
 
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