You have no right to work.....

Althea said:
In many cases, the union does provide the bennies. Other contract terms are fought for by the union. As such, those who don't join the union should be subjected to terms that the employer agrees to separately.
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Thats true....and that decision would be up to the employer, wouldn't it....Not the union....

The only 'bennie' that the union might provide is money paid to workers on strike....I don't know of any other....unless you want to include our annual union picnic.

I"m more concerned with Constitutional rights of everybody, not just special rights for certain groups that do nothing but
alienate people....and separate people into this group and that group....
 
NOVA said:
Sorry sonny....my company had up to 7000 employees, and I knew only one, ONE, that did not belong to the union, attend or vote on contracts, or pay dues....so when I was
working, 4000 employees was a medium sized corp...and I personally knew quite a few, still due as a matter of fact.
I had no say in how my dues money was spent....majority rules, you know....today you can request in writing that your portion of those dues not go to political groups....
Big whoop dee doo....whats that amount to....12 or 14 hundred out those millions collected each and every year....I guess they could tell those auditors my money was spent
on paper clips for the union hall....

The whole point of this subject is that you pinheads refuse to realize the unintended consequences of those laws that protect you, have and impact of other people
that may not share your views....and those people have rights too....whether its labor laws, gun rights that effect innocent gun owners, or so called minority rights that
may force you six year daughter to change into her gym shorts, or use the toilet beside her male classmates.....laws in impede the rights of innocent citizens are bad laws.
They become victims .
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As far as PAC money that is patently false, if you honestly believe a union spent some of your dues money on political action, I suggest you look up their L-M2 filling on the DOL website, it is a matter of public record. The rest of your post is a Bagger rant. Not sure what right you lost in this so called 36 years under union contract. The right to earn less money?
 
Norah said:
The freedom of association goes both ways. You have a freedom to unionize just as you have to not associate with it. I don't know enough about working for places with unions or anything like that since I'm still in college and most of my money comes from competition and manual labor (cleaning stables and things). All I was saying was that joining a union should not be a condition of employment. You are working for the company not the union.
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Think of it as applying for a job at a place that requires a uniform. You either comply with the dress code, or simply opt for a place with no such code.
 
NOVA said:
And I can assure you, I worked for a union shop for 36 years and my wife worked for a non union manufacturing corp.....her wages and benefits were at least equal to mine considering the different kind of work we did....my work being considerably more technical than hers so the wage was adjusted accordingly....she had medical benefits the same as mine, same vacation, same seniority protection, same 401K plans, even a respectable retirement plan....
she could actually request being laid off in a slow down if she had seniority, with guaranteed call back, I could not. It was strictly last in, first out....

Security?...I agree with that aspect....you can be a lazy fuck up in a union shop and not get canned very easily,and I knew many of those......
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That does happen quite often, but never in a 'right to work' area. You're describing what has become common in many states that have strong unions. Non union shops match the union wages/terms in order to be competitive for quality labor, and in order to avoid a union forming in their company
 
Billy Batts said:
Bullshit! CWA v. Beck: Unions Cannot Force Non-Members To Pay Dues For Political Action. In the 1988 U.S. Supreme Court case Communications Workers v. Beck, the majority found that the Communications Workers of America (CWA) could not charge non-members in work places they organize fees that paid for political action by the union. [U.S. Supreme Court,CWA v. Beck, 6/29/88]

Locke v. Karass: Non-Union Workers At Organized Work Places Cannot Be Forced To Pay For "Political, Public Relations, Or Lobbying" Activities By Unions. In a 2009U.S. Supreme Court decision, the majority, echoing past precedent, reaffirmed that non-union members in work places are only to pay a service fee that equaled to the amount collective bargaining services and contract maintenance services cost. [U.S. Supreme Court, Locke v. Karass, 1/21/09]

Any money paid to union officials is voted on, if you ever attended a union meeting you would know that.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah,,,,and its a crock of shit....its impossible to separate money in the union pot....anyone can say, no we didn't use 'his' money for political donations, 'his' money
went to pay for staples....its a meaningless law....ever it they returned your 'portion' of the political donations...what would you get back? A check for 5 dollars ?
 
NOVA said:
Thats the unintended consequences of adhering to the US Constitution that must protect the freedoms of everyone.....no one is forcing you to join that union....and no
one has a right to force you....thats your choice alone....join then STFU, or don't join and STFU...your choice.
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Hey the right to join a union,and the right to strike are recognized Constitutional protections as well. Baggers always believe whatever they disagree with is Un- Constitutional, that is seldom, if ever the case.
 
NOVA said:
Thats true....and that decision would be up to the employer, wouldn't it....Not the union....

The only 'bennie' that the union might provide is money paid to workers on strike....I don't know of any other....unless you want to include our annual union picnic.

I"m more concerned with Constitutional rights of everybody, not just special rights for certain groups that do nothing but
alienate people....and separate people into this group and that group....
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I've been self employed since I was a kid. I did work for a few grocery unions when I was just out of high school. I believe some unions have their own health insurance plans, and retirement funds.
 
NOVA said:
Yeah, yeah, yeah,,,,and its a crock of shit....its impossible to separate money in the union pot....anyone can say, no we didn't use 'his' money for political donations, 'his' money
went to pay for staples....its a meaningless law....ever it they returned your 'portion' of the political donations...what would you get back? A check for 5 dollars ?
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Hey it is easy to look up, and find out. I think you are one of these lazy fuckers the Union spent thousands of dollars on at arbitration hearings, if you are to lazy to look up your locals L-M2 filing. You keep saying the Union took you money for political purposes, prove it or shut the fuck up.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
that isn't changed by "right to work" laws......just the opposite.....if you are required to join the union, there is no freedom of association......association is mandatory if there is no right to work law.....
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Poor Billy seems to have the idea that speaking for the rights of EVERYONE makes that person anti-union.....

He has no ability to look at the issue for any other perspective than the union side.....

Even with my 36 years as a union member I can still see from the other perspective....they do have rights that must be recognized...
 
Althea said:
I've been self employed since I was a kid. I did work for a few grocery unions when I was just out of high school. I believe some unions have their own health insurance plans, and retirement funds.
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Many do but in my opinion joint plans are preferred.
 
Billy Batts said:
Hey it is easy to look up, and find out. I think you are one of these lazy fuckers the Union spent thousands of dollars on at arbitration hearings, if you are to lazy to look up your locals L-M2 filing. You keep saying the Union took you money for political purposes, prove it or shut the fuck up.
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In my state, there was discussion over allowing employees to opt in/out of paying union dues. I remember reading about political contributions. Are you saying that unions are not allowed to make political contributions, or that each individual has to give the union permission to use their dues for that purpose?
 
NOVA said:
Poor Billy seems to have the idea that speaking for the rights of EVERYONE makes that person anti-union.....

He has no ability to look at the issue for any other perspective than the union side.....

Even with my 36 years as a union member I can still see from the other perspective....they do have rights that must be recognized...
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You are joking right? You are rabidly anti union, and have not shown a single right you lost, only a perception of you dues money being spent on candidates you did not support.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Basically "right to work" means you can't be required to join a union at an employers whose workers have, under collective bargaining rights, negotiated an employment contract.

The problem with that is that free riders undermine the collective bargaining process by not paying their share of the cost for representation and negotiations yet expect the same pay, benefits and contractual employment rights as opposed to being an at will employee.
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Bloody hell, we got rid of closed shops many years ago. Really surprised that they still survive in the US.
 
Althea said:
I've been self employed since I was a kid. I did work for a few grocery unions when I was just out of high school. I believe some unions have their own health insurance plans, and retirement funds.
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You're correct of course,...I was being facetious...hard to do in writing sometimes....
 
Milagro said:
Bloody hell, we got rid of closed shops many years ago. Really surprised that they still survive in the US.
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If you know anything about this country, you know money has power....union money that generally goes to one and only one party is particularly powerful....

its pretty clear that "that" particular party is not just obsessed with money.....but are pretty much corrupted by it......
 
Althea said:
In my state, there was discussion over allowing employees to opt in/out of paying union dues. I remember reading about political contributions. Are you saying that unions are not allowed to make political contributions, or that each individual has to give the union permission to use their dues for that purpose?
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No Unions can not use members money for political action unless the member agrees. I posted both Supreme Court decision's earlier. Unions typically set up political action committees, and the member has to voluntarily donate. I belive what you are talking about is a dues check off with the employer. In those arrangements the employee can pay the union dues directly or have it automatically taken from their pay.
 
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Billy Batts said:
No Unions can not use members money for political action unless the member agrees. I posted both Supreme Court decision's earlier. Unions typically set up political action committees, and the member has to voluntarily donate. I belive what you are talking about is a dues check off with the employer. In those arrangements the employee can pay the union dues directly or have it automatically taken from their pay.
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More lying bullshit....its the union member that must send, IN WRITING, a request not to use their dues in political donations....otherwise,

by default, part of your dues will be used in political donations, like it or not.....
 
Billy Batts said:
No Unions can not use members money for political action unless the member agrees. I posted both Supreme Court decision's earlier. Unions typically set up political action committees, and the member has to voluntarily donate. I belive what you are talking about is a dues check off with the employer. In those arrangements the employee can pay the union dues directly or have it automatically taken from their pay.
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That's interesting, because those who fought to not pay union dues were arguing the fact that they don't want to contribute to political parties. Perhaps it was a discussion I had about the issue, with those who were just flapping their gums.
 
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