You have no right to work.....

NOVA said:
More lying bullshit....its the union member that must send, IN WRITING, a request not to use their dues in political donations....otherwise,

by default, part of your dues will be used in political donations, like it or not.....
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As long as they have that option, it isn't a good argument against joining the union.
 
Norah said:
I don't like the idea of forcing a person to join a union in order to work somewhere. To me it goes against individual freedom and the American ideal of opportunity. If there is a business that has a union then a new employee should be able to choose between joining or not. They are there for the job and applied to work for that business not for the union. I don't have any problem with someone joining a union if that's what they want to do but the equal choice should also be not to join it. You'd both be doing your job either way but you'd both have the freedom of choice.
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Curiously enough that is exactly the situation in the UK, we abolished closed shops some time ago.

Sent from my Lenovo K52e78 using Tapatalk
 
Althea said:
As long as they have that option, it isn't a good argument against joining the union.
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I'm not advocating (or arguing) for or against joining a union.....just telling what the rules were on this issue when I was a member....16 years ago, could be different now.....
 
Althea said:
That's interesting, because those who fought to not pay union dues were arguing the fact that they don't want to contribute to political parties. Perhaps it was a discussion I had about the issue, with those who were just flapping their gums.
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The union line about not spending dues on politics rates right up there with "Your check is in the mail," "I'll still respect you in the morning," and "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

It is true that federal law and some state laws prohibit unions from using dues dollars to make contributions to political campaigns. That's why unions have political action committees (PAC). Contributions to PACs are voluntary. You may have trouble convincing some union members just how "voluntary" they are but that's another story. For information on union PAC contributions click here.

But, there is not much real difference between making a contribution to a political campaign and "spending union dues on politics." For example, during the 2004 presidential primaries many unions had several, in some cases far more than several, staff members in Iowa promoting their favorite candidates. They are full time staff members for the candidates' campaigns. They are highly skilled, highly paid political operatives. Their salaries, benefits and expenses are paid by the unions.

http://www.unionfreeamerica.com/duesforpolitics.htm
 
Althea said:
As long as they have that option, it isn't a good argument against joining the union.
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He is blowing smoke. I showed the case's that said it can not be done (see post#54), linked him to the DOL website where the annual LM-2 form is posted, and he still wants to believe part of his dues is used to endorse candidates he opposes. No more wasting time with that guy. Even if it was true so what, does it bother him if he works for an employer that uses profit to back a candidate he disagrees with? These right to work types are just cheap skates; probably don't believe in tipping either.

These baggers are always complaining about paying for anything; don't want pay taxes,don't want to pay union dues, don't want pay for anything. No wonder they like Trump he did not pay; taxes, did not pay people that did work for him, don't want pay to take a girl out on a date, just show up and grab her wooky.
 
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NOVA said:
And I can assure you, I worked for a union shop for 36 years and my wife worked for a non union manufacturing corp.....her wages and benefits were at least equal to mine considering the different kind of work we did....my work being considerably more technical than hers so the wage was adjusted accordingly....she had medical benefits the same as mine, same vacation, same seniority protection, same 401K plans, even a respectable retirement plan....
she could actually request being laid off in a slow down if she had seniority, with guaranteed call back, I could not. It was strictly last in, first out....

Security?...I agree with that aspect....you can be a lazy fuck up in a union shop and not get canned very easily,and I knew many of those......
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When the Palo Verde Nuclear plant was under construction, a guy I know quit where he was working and got a job there as a laborer.
First day on the job; his assignment was to move a pile of 2x4's from where they were piled, to a different area.
He grabs 4 or 5 of them, as he was used to doing, and started to take them to where they need to be.
A Union guy stopped him and told him that if he wanted to keep working there, then he needed to stop making others look bad and carry them one at a time.
 
NOVA said:
Thats true....and that decision would be up to the employer, wouldn't it....Not the union....

The only 'bennie' that the union might provide is money paid to workers on strike....I don't know of any other....unless you want to include our annual union picnic.

I"m more concerned with Constitutional rights of everybody, not just special rights for certain groups that do nothing but
alienate people....and separate people into this group and that group....
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I forget how far back it was, when this was happening; but one of the Unions were on strike, for one reason or another, and on a live broadcast a reporter asked one of the strikers were on strike, seeing as how they were making quite a bit more then the private sector employees.
LIVE ON TV, the guy said; "We need a raise to hold us over, for the next time we strike". :palm:
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Basically "right to work" means you can't be required to join a union at an employers whose workers have, under collective bargaining rights, negotiated an employment contract.

The problem with that is that free riders undermine the collective bargaining process by not paying their share of the cost for representation and negotiations yet expect the same pay, benefits and contractual employment rights as opposed to being an at will employee.
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So...the conclusion is....even the Employers "must" calculate the extra cost of contractual obligations with a UNION SHOP and include those EXTRA WAGES in any collective agreement with the UNION...so the flat noses get their cut of pay to play?

Truth? The right to work laws can only make the union stronger....as the law makes the union "earn" support instead of taking away the rights of US CITIZENS. FYI; There are some 44 million union workers in 26 right to work states. It appears those "FREE RIDERS" are not having any effect. 44 million out of a population of 300 million...HALF are not even working equals UNIONIZATION for over a 3rd of the US LABOR FORCE....in the 26 RIGHT TO WORK states alone.

Free Rider is simply another communist buzz word used in an attempt for the Union to continue to make US CITIZENS "pay to play". What? Is the National Labor Relations Act to be used simply as toilet tissue? The Act does guarantee all employees the right to UNIONIZE...if they desire to unionize, as the 44 million Union Workers in states like Iowa, Nevada, and Michigan demonstrably prove...some of the strongest unions on the planet reside in these RIGHT TO WORK STATES.

Regardless....if there exists a law on the books (void of a RIGHT TO WORK LAW) that allows anyone to refuse to join a union...that law is made non-effect by the Contractual Demand in the collective agreement between company and union..that REQUIRES all hourly workers to be union....this contract makes the workers sign over their right to work void of a union. Its like a state declaring that Sunday is a dry day...when its very easy to get around such common law by making your club PRIVATE..supposedly not open to the public but membership paying members only.
 
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In 1982; Copper prices had fallen so low that Phelps-Dodge closed in Morenci, Arizona.
They allowed the union mine workers to stay in the company owned homes, made sure the utilities stayed turned on, and negotiated a hold on loan payments.
This way no one was destroyed; because of the closing.

Then in 1983; copper prices started to climb and the mine reopened.
All the previous union mine workers were brought back to work and then the union decided to go on strike.
Phelps-Dodge fired all the strikers, gave them 30 days to move off of the company property, and hired new miners.

The strikes had a picket line for some time; but the mine was only shut down for about 3
The workers eventually voted the union out and there have been no more unions working for Phelps-Dodge.

Be careful what you wish for; because you might just get it. :good4u:
 
Ralph said:
So...the conclusion is....even the Employers "must" calculate the extra cost of contractual obligations with a UNION SHOP and include those EXTRA WAGES in any collective agreement with the UNION...so the flat noses get their cut of pay to play?

Truth? The right to work laws can only make the union stronger....as the law makes the union "earn" support instead of taking away the rights of US CITIZENS. FYI; There are some 44 million union workers in 26 right to work states. It appears those "FREE RIDERS" are not having any effect. 44 million out of a population of 300 million...HALF are not even working equals UNIONIZATION for over a 3rd of the US LABOR FORCE....in the 26 RIGHT TO WORK states alone.

Free Rider is simply another communist buzz word used in an attempt for the Union to continue to make US CITIZENS "pay to play". What? Is the National Labor Relations Act to be used simply as toilet tissue? The Act does guarantee all employees the right to UNIONIZE...if they desire to unionize, as the 44 million Union Workers in states like Iowa, Nevada, and Michigan demonstrably prove...some of the strongest unions on the planet reside in these RIGHT TO WORK STATES.

Regardless....if there exists a law on the books (void of a RIGHT TO WORK LAW) that allows anyone to refuse to join a union...that law is made non-effect by the Contractual Demand in the collective agreement between company and union..that REQUIRES all hourly workers to be union....this contract makes the workers sign over their right to work void of a union. Its like a state declaring that Sunday is a dry day...when its very easy to get around such common law by making your club PRIVATE..supposedly not open to the public but membership paying members only.
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Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about. Free rider is a Communist buzz word? I guess dead beat is a communist buzz word too. Dues check off is agreed upon at the bargaining table, it is not imposed and the administrative cost is factored in. Please come back with something that reassembles an argument, not a bunch of stupid slogans, strung together.
 
when you are arguing with a liberal you can always tell when you've won the argument.......its when they stop answering your questions and pretend they can't see you any more.......
 
Ralph said:
Regardless....if there exists a law on the books (void of a RIGHT TO WORK LAW) that allows anyone to refuse to join a union...that law is made non-effect by the Contractual Demand in the collective agreement between company and union..that REQUIRES all hourly workers to be union....this contract makes the workers sign over their right to work void of a union. Its like a state declaring that Sunday is a dry day...when its very easy to get around such common law by making your club PRIVATE..supposedly not open to the public but membership paying members only.
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Not sure what you're arguing here?
 
Althea said:
Not sure what you're arguing here?
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Just an incoherent Tea Bagger word salad rambling, could have copied and pasted it from Sahara Palins facebook page. He all caps US Citizens three time, as if the organized workers renounced their citizenship. Makes the assured assumption that, right to work laws, are good for employees, who want a union.
 
CFM said:
So create jobs to say we have jobs?
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That would be the literal definition of "right to work". Attaching this to a specific situation that involves unions is nonsensical. There are plenty of reasons in society that you can be denied work, and there is no right to it. The "right to work" does nothing to address that, there is no right to work in "right to work" states.
 
Billy Batts said:
Quote Originally Posted by NOVA View Post
1) And I can assure you, I worked for a union shop for 36 years and my wife worked for a non union manufacturing corp.....her wages and benefits were at least equal to mine considering the different kind of work we did....my work being considerably more technical than hers so the wage was adjusted accordingly....she had medical benefits the same as mine, same vacation, same seniority protection, same 401K plans, even a respectable retirement plan....

2) she could actually request being laid off in a slow down if she had seniority, with guaranteed call back, I could not. It was strictly last in, first out....

3) Security?...I agree with that aspect....you can be a lazy fuck up in a union shop and not get canned very easily,and I knew many of those......
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1) If your wife was hired as a non -union employee, she was considered an "at-will" employee, so she had no seniority rights. Unless she had an individual contract of employment waiving the "at-will" presumption. If your wife had it so great why didn't you work at her place of business, instead of being hobbled by a union contract for 36 years, with a bunch of lazy co-workers? Because you are full of shit that is why.

2) Total Bullshit not without a contract. Peddle that to some dumb fucker.

3) Sounds like you have some experience being a lazy fuck up. I doubt you know more than a handful of union employees given that line, far to few to make that broad a statement. If you believe laziness in unique to union shops you real do not have a clue.
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Over the years, Nova has created a number of different scenarios he claims are actual life experiences. He does this in an attempt to give legitimacy to his (pick one) new conservative/tea party/libertarian philosophy as to how the world should work. Unfortunately for Nova, as you've discovered, he's not too bright and his stories are easily deconstructed and revealed for the pure BS that they are.
 
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