I'm not a liberal and I do think Trump should have signed it.
You do realize he has gone full fascist in his speeches
- Thread starter reagansghost
- Start date
I'm not a liberal and I do think Trump should have signed it.
cawacko
Well-known member
Fair enough, what about TPP do you think made both major candidates and Bernie Sanders be against it?
I don't have any idea.. IMO commerce is good.
see this is why I don't fool around with you and your hate filled screed that much. Just for my entertainment when the whim moves me
and your understanding of globalization is woeful -you make the false construct that only global yuge trade agreements like the TPP are the only way to address global trade.
Bilateral and smaller multi-lateral trade agreements are just as effective, without tying the US into dealing with trade partners like a bunch of lilliputians tying down the US economy into their level.
Big is better when it come to economic clout. Use it to our advantage.
The rest of your Democratic screed is laughable. The world is nationalistic. learn it and use it effectively instead of silly Paris Climate accords where China is considered a "developing economy"..
fuck that noise
that's a stupid conflation on your part. The US constitution is our method of operation.
The TPP wasn't even a Treaty -Obama knew it would never pass -it was an international executive trade agreement. conflating trade agreements with the Constitution is silly and stupid both.
cawacko
Well-known member
This is what Cypress wrote to me in 2007 when it was said China and U.S. trade cost 2.3 million American jobs.
"""You think this was an accident, or somehow all unintentional?
This was exactly what the wall street republicans, and corporate-sponsored Dems had in mind when the passed NAFTA, WTO, and China MFN.
A downward pressure on labor costs and wages in the United States.
People like Cawacko, Damocles, and Stuperfreak actually bought into the nonsense that William F Buckley, Ronald Reagan, George Bush, and Alan Greenspan were actually valiantly trying to improve the status, power, and wage potential of america's working middle class. Is it possible to be any more foolish that to believe scions of the conservative movement and america's rich investor were invested in improving the power and status of Joe and Jane working class american?"""
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...t-2-3-million-U-S-jobs-report&highlight=china
So a decade ago only right wingers who didn't care about the working man supported free trade agreements. Now all of a sudden one is against the working man by not supporting TPP. Things definitely change quickly.
"""You think this was an accident, or somehow all unintentional?
This was exactly what the wall street republicans, and corporate-sponsored Dems had in mind when the passed NAFTA, WTO, and China MFN.
A downward pressure on labor costs and wages in the United States.
People like Cawacko, Damocles, and Stuperfreak actually bought into the nonsense that William F Buckley, Ronald Reagan, George Bush, and Alan Greenspan were actually valiantly trying to improve the status, power, and wage potential of america's working middle class. Is it possible to be any more foolish that to believe scions of the conservative movement and america's rich investor were invested in improving the power and status of Joe and Jane working class american?"""
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...t-2-3-million-U-S-jobs-report&highlight=china
So a decade ago only right wingers who didn't care about the working man supported free trade agreements. Now all of a sudden one is against the working man by not supporting TPP. Things definitely change quickly.
The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) is a defunct proposed trade agreement between Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, Vietnam, and United States signed on 4 February 2016, which was not ratified as required and did not take effect.
After the United States withdrew its signature, the agreement could not enter into force. The remaining nations negotiated a new trade agreement called Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership, which incorporates most of the provisions of the TPP.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership
After the United States withdrew its signature, the agreement could not enter into force. The remaining nations negotiated a new trade agreement called Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership, which incorporates most of the provisions of the TPP.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership
They are the only way to effectively address global trade because global trade is not like it was 240 years ago. And TPP would have helped smaller countries negotiate trade deals with aggressive partners like China; good trade deals for smaller economies means good trade deals for us. Leveraging a country like Chile's economy with the USA's puts Chile is a stronger position to negotiate with China than if Chile did so on its own, without the leverage of TPP.
Conservatives will never understand that because Conservatives are terrible at business, and awful at negotiations.
For fuck's sake, you don't even know the fundamentals of TPP.
You're just spouting nonsense because you have this desperate need to be accommodated.
What TPP does is give smaller nations more bargaining power to negotiate with non-TPP nations.
So Chile, for instance, enters into a negotiation with China. If TPP happened, Chile's bargaining power would be strengthened by the fact that it is in a trade pact with the US, thus leveraging our trade power to help get them better deals out of China. Without TPP, Chile has no leverage, and thus can get steamrolled by China. China steamrolling Chile on trade ends up affecting Chile's ability to form trade pacts with other countries, including ours. So what happens is that Chile enters into a negotiation with the US, but because of Chile's trade deal with China, we now are bargaining against not just Chile, but China too.
That's how international trade works. It needs to be done multi-laterally because trade deals with one country can affect trade deals with others.
But you have a globalization phobia because you aren't comfortable in a self-contained world that isn't homogenized to your tastes.
That is exactly what TPP would have done. It would have used our large economic clout as a piece of leverage in proxy negotiations with TPP members, YOU FUCKING IDIOT.
You got conned into opposing TPP and they conned you by playing to your globalization fears; fears that are really about your discomfort outside of hegemony.
You're like, the worst.
You're a posturing fool. I see right through it.
cawacko
Well-known member
Nationalism is a mental illness, and the day will come where you will try and pretend you didn't get caught up in it. And when that day comes, I can't wait to laugh in your fucking face and leave you out to dry.
Don't expect forgiveness or sympathy.
Now you're just spouting nonsense.
Our Constitution doesn't apply when it comes to international law.
So go fuck off, like, forever.
TPP would have protected our trade interests in 10 other countries as they negotiate deals with our trade competitors in China and the EU.
By pulling out of TPP, we are weakening our leverage internationally on trade.
The EU has a larger economy than we do, don't forget. So TPP nations weren't collectively coming together to protect their interests from just China.
Well, you're a fucking idiot who doesn't understand that TPP actually was.
cawacko
Well-known member
Really? And you've come to that conclusion how?
Posturing.
cawacko
Well-known member
For what or whom?
Apologies. I got you confused with someone else. I see that you do support TPP, as you should. As we all should because that's how we counter China's (and the EU's) aggressive trade posture.
So, I am sorry for being a dick just now.
To win elections, dude. That's why anyone would posture.
The reality is that Obama was 100% right about the need for TPP because Obama recognized that both China and the EU have aggressive trade postures, and we need trade allies to have our back. We can't do it alone, not in a globalized world.