You do realize he has gone full fascist in his speeches

LV426 said:
SIGH.

The US isn't servient to TPP you fucking know-nothing.

All TPP does is provide the 11-member nations with equal leverage to negotiate trade deals for themselves.

So Chile enters a negotiation with China, backed by the 10 other nations in TPP. That's more advantageous for them, and not for China. Now, if Chile enters into negotiations with China without being backed by the 10 other TPP countries, then who has the bargaining power in that scenario?
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again you make my point that smaller scope bilateral and multi-lateral trade agreement favor larger economies.
The USA is the largest economy....do the math!

Debating the TPP is a waste of time. It's a dead letter. The fact you support a globalist agenda though is noted.
 
anatta said:
reducing the disparity means other factors I just listed come into play.
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Not when the increase is nominal.

Bottom line is the wage is still lower. So you've done nothing to bring jobs to the US, nor have you done anything to stop jobs from going to Mexico.

In fact, you've just helped make the case for more outsourcing because you've firmly planted that short-sighted flag in a wage that is still below that of US wages.

Bottom line is that if they were going to take advantage of tax breaks and credits to have production in the US, they would have already done that by now.

Nominally raising the wage of Mexican workers doesn't suddenly make new tax breaks and credits appear out of thin air.
 
LV426 said:
The framing here is what you're choosing to focus on, not the fact that the terms Trudeau "agreed to" had already been agreed to as part of TPP years before Trump was President.

Conservatives are desperate for a win, going so far as to try and take credit for something Obama did.

Next thing you know, they're gonna say they protect pre-existing conditions...
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the provisions were not agreed to until they were actually agreed to.
that's a maxim of trade negotiations you should learn.

NAFTA 2 was not going to happen until all 3 parties agreed to it. the TPP had no bearing on NAFTA 2 negotiations
 
anatta said:
Plus it help Mexican workers
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Stop.

It helps a small handful of Mexican workers; there are only 700,000 Mexican workers employed in auto manufacturing, and that $16/hr wage isn't applicable to all of them. It's just what the average has to be. So some of those Mexican workers aren't going to get a raise at all, and more and more of them are going to be replaced by robots, who you can pay $0/hr.
 
LV426 said:
Not when the increase is nominal.

Bottom line is the wage is still lower. So you've done nothing to bring jobs to the US, nor have you done anything to stop jobs from going to Mexico.

In fact, you've just helped make the case for more outsourcing because you've firmly planted that short-sighted flag in a wage that is still below that of US wages.

Bottom line is that if they were going to take advantage of tax breaks and credits to have production in the US, they would have already done that by now.

Nominally raising the wage of Mexican workers doesn't suddenly make new tax breaks and credits appear out of thin air.
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incorrect. the factors of state incentives, transport costs, tax breaks etc. are not as prominate
until the wage gap was lowered to make those more of a consideration then with a yuge wage gap

and this is like th 50th time we've gone over this...
bye..
 
anatta said:
Trump improved on Obama's trade terms just like he improved on Obama's economy.
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Plagiarizing trade terms isn't improving them. It's stealing the work someone else did and pretending you did it.

You should know by now that Trump is incredibly fucking lazy, so all he's gonna do is cheat off others.
 
anatta said:
you assume smaller countries would ally with us against China
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Of course they would. They would need a trade alliance with us in order to give them leverage in a negotiation.

Doesn't sound to me like you know how to negotiate, or what "leverage" is.
 
anatta said:
The TPP locks our fate into the hands of a small economy is the point. I don't want small economies dictating to ours
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No it doesn't!

TPP forms a trade partnership that its member nations can rely on when they each do their own separate deals with non-TPP countries.

Yeesh. This isn't fucking difficult to understand.
 
anatta said:
who cares what your politics are? I sure don't.
it's extreme globalism for all I can see with a lot of TDS thrown in for good measure.
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It's not 1823.

We live in a highly globalized, highly technical, multi-cultural world.

Commerce happens routinely across national borders.

We are never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever going to reverse the trend. No matter how much you want it to happen, it's not going to. Things will only get more globalized, faster.

It doesn't sound to me like your opposition to gloablization has to do with anything other than your racist, nationalist, tribalist, bigoted self. That's it. If it's not homogenized, then you don't want a part of it. And frankly, that's the most immature and idiotic position for anyone to have in today's world.

You might want to isolate yourself from society because you're an anti-social asshole, but the rest of the world isn't going to wait for you to come to your senses.
 
anatta said:
Trying to conflate that with trade deals is ludicrous
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What I was saying was that your idiotic position on corporate person-hood contradicts your position on challenges to the sovereignty of nations in an international court.
 
anatta said:
again you make my point that smaller scope bilateral and multi-lateral trade agreement favor larger economies.
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Sure, if we were the only large economy in town.

But we're not.


anatta said:
The USA is the largest economy....do the math!
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Right, but we have trade deals with smaller economies who have trade deals with other large economies like China or the EU, which is a larger economy than ours.

And also, the strategic importance of protecting US trade interests by providing leverage to trade allies in their negotiations with our competitors like China and/or the EU.

The problem you have is that you don't really understand international trade; you're pretending you do and faking your way through this conversation.

What a fraud.
 
anatta said:
the provisions were not agreed to until they were actually agreed to.
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They were agreed to in TPP; we were at the finish line. Then you quit the race just as we were about to cross the finish. Because you're a bunch of quitters. Lazy, arrogant quitters.
 
anatta said:
until the wage gap was lowered to make those more of a consideration then with a yuge wage gap
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So this is just a variation of the laughable "confidence fairy" argument; that all it takes is just a nominal action to suddenly spur a second-look at incentives and breaks. The bad news for you is that the consideration of incentives and breaks are something a company does from the get-go. So unless new credits and breaks appear, you haven't changed anything for any business by nominally increasing Mexican wages.

All you've done is increase the cost of production, which will be passed onto consumers.

The nominal change in the labor cost isn't going to suddenly make tax credits and breaks appear.

And besides, you'd need to show your math here too. Because we're only talking about wage increases for some of the 700,000 Mexican workers. Because not all of them are going to get that raise. The $16/hr is just the average they have to meet, not the prevailing wage. So that means plenty of Mexican workers won't see a raise at all.
 
kudzu said:
Farmers dismayed at Trump withdrawal of U.S. from TPP trade ...

Farm groups expressed dismay on Monday at President Donald Trump’s withdrawal from a Pacific trade agreement they were counting on to sell a glut of American agricultural products in new markets.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/f...thdrawal-of-us-from-tpp-trade-pact-2017-01-24
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As a liberal, why do you believe Bernie and then Hillary didn't support the deal? (I support TPP and think we should have signed it, and the candidate I supported was the only one who said they would have signed it)
 
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